WHERE was SATAN on October 22, 1844?

[Umfundize]

Would you believe, Ellen White said he was in the Holy Place IN HEAVEN! Check pp53,54 and p 261 in Early Writings.

The question is, is he still there and do YOU believe this?

[Gibs]

"I saw the Father rise from the throne, [sEE PAGE 92.] and in a flaming chariot go into the holy of holies within the veil, and sit down. Then Jesus rose up from the throne, and the most of those who were bowed down arose with Him. I did not see one ray of light pass from Jesus to the careless multitude after He arose, and they were left in perfect darkness. Those who arose when Jesus did, kept their eyes fixed on Him as He left the throne and led them out a little way. Then He raised His right arm, and we heard His lovely voice saying, "Wait here; I am going to My Father to receive the kingdom; keep your garments spotless, and in a little while I will return from the wedding and receive you to Myself." Then a cloudy chariot, with wheels like flaming fire, surrounded by angels, came to where Jesus was. He stepped into the chariot and was borne to the holiest, where the Father sat. There I beheld Jesus, a great High Priest, standing before the Father. On the hem of His garment was a bell and a pomegranate, a bell and a pomegranate. Those who rose up with Jesus would send up their faith to Him in the holiest, and pray, "My Father, give us Thy Spirit." Then Jesus would breathe upon them the Holy Ghost. In that breath was light, power, and much love, joy, and peace.

56

{EW 55.1}

I turned to look at the company who were still bowed before the throne; they did not know that Jesus had left it. Satan appeared to be by the throne, trying to carry on the work of God. I saw them look up to the throne, and pray, "Father, give us Thy Spirit." Satan would then breathe upon them an unholy influence; in it there was light and much power, but no sweet love, joy, and peace. Satan's object was to keep them deceived and to draw back and deceive God's children.

Yes of course it is true, Jesus was no longer in the Holy place and had gone to the the Most Holy place and many didn't follow Jesus and Satan was there to get them at that door that was closed and the door to the Most Holy was then opened to receive the petitions of the faithful who followed Him.

His Word is spiritually discerned so most do not discern the Holy Word.

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[Lysimachus]

The Heavenly Literal Sanctuary mirrors the Earthly Spiritual Sanctuary (the Church). This literal structure symbolizes His spiritual Church on earth.

What Christ is doing in the Heavenly Sanctuary "reflects" what is transpiring with God's people on earth.

In Psalms 77:13, it says, "Thy way, O God, is in the sanctuary"-- yet we know men never enter the sanctuary physically, either earthly or heavenly. It is speaking spiritually--where our hearts are at, mentally.

Concerning the heavenly sanctuary, Paul said:

"Let us therefore come boldly unto the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy, and find grace to help in time of need." (Hebrews 4:6)

Do humans literally fly up to heaven and go before the throne of Grace in the heavenly sanctuary?

Of course not.

Concerning the heavenly sanctuary, "And the temple was filled with smoke from the glory of God, and from his power; and no man was able to enter into the temple, till the seven plagues of the seven angels were fulfilled." (Revelation 15:8)

This verse indicates that men were able to enter into the temple before the 7 last plagues were being poured out.

Do men fly up to heaven and enter the temple?

No!

It's talking about spiritually!

What Ellen White is talking about here is a symbolic representation of where Satan is sitting in the minds of the people.

He is sitting in the Holy Place in the Spiritual Sanctuary of the Church, breathing upon them an unholy influence.

This unholy influence is manifested through the False Spirit of speaking in tongues--the evangelical "spirit filled" movements who violate God's commandments and think they are filled with the Holy Ghost.

But it is that of another power.

These Churches are BABYLON!

As bodies, they are FALLEN! Yet individually, each and everyone of their members can still be saved by joining the body of Christ.

[Lysimachus]

It should be also noted that the first portion states exactly "what" Jesus was doing when He entered into the Most Holy Place.

But, when she gets to the paragraph about Satan, notice:

"I turned to look at the company who were still bowed before the throne; they did not know that Jesus had left it. Satan appeared to be by the throne, trying to carry on the work of God. I saw them look up to the throne, and pray, "Father, give us Thy Spirit." Satan would then breathe upon them an unholy influence; in it there was light and much power, but no sweet love, joy, and peace. Satan's object was to keep them deceived and to draw back and deceive God's children."

At this point, she is not describing a literal event, but now God is showing her a symbolic appearance, to represent spiritual truths. Spiritually, Satan was occupying the Holy Place, because those who refused to follow Jesus into the Most Holy Place were being left in darkness.

It was "old light", and that light turns into darkness into the soul if you willfully refuse to advance unto progressive light that God is revealing.

What Ellen White is doing is "fusing" the literal heavenly sanctuary services with the spiritual earthly sanctuary. She's joining Christ's literal heavenly sanctuary ministration with the spiritual events that transpire in the minds of God's people--and painting a comprehensive spiritual picture.

Those who have not been broken on the rock, and who do not want to do what is right, will nit-pick in areas like this, and they will stubbornly find anything they can to find something wrong.

It's no different than the atheist picking holes in the Bible.

It reveals where their hearts are at.

Ellen White's writings TEST people, to see if they really want to do what is right.

If they want to find something wrong, they will find it, no matter how right it is.

Spiritual things are spiritually discerned. (1 Cor 2:14)

None of the wicked shall understand, but the wise shall understand (Daniel 12:10)

"But God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise" (1 Cor 1:27)

"Because the foolishness of God is wiser than men" (1 Cor 1:25)

To Umfundize, the things the Spirit of Prophecy are saying concerning Satan in the Holy Place appear as "foolishness" to him, because he is lacking in spiritual discernment.

[Gibs]

Agreed, Lys,

Much of her writings are spiritually discerned as is the Bible, the Spirit must quicken the mind and open it's eyes and ears. The Prophecies also!

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[Umfundize]

At which time did the Father move His throne to the Holy Place to spend time there with the Son from AD 31-1844 while sins piled up in the Most Holy Place?

Is Satan "spiritually speaking" still in heaven?

So the prophecies EGW made that did not come true, must be "spiritually discerned"?

I think there is a problemo somewhere!

It is not a matter of "attacking Mrs. White", but are Adventists allowed to check out the list of unfulfilled "prophecies" listed on www.ellenwhiteexposed.com? I understand those people also attack the Sabbath, but their FACTS about EGW do check out right!

"Truth that cannot be tested is truth that cannot be trusted." AA

[Gerr]

ESV | ‎Re 6:9 "When he opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of those who had been slain for the word of God and for the witness they had borne."

Do you think these souls are/were actually in heaven?

Was Jonah a false prophet? Isaiah? They had unfulfilled prophecies too.

[Guest]

At which time did the Father move His throne to the Holy Place to spend time there with the Son from AD 31-1844 while sins piled up in the Most Holy Place?

Is Satan "spiritually speaking" still in heaven?

So the prophecies EGW made that did not come true, must be "spiritually discerned"?

I think there is a problemo somewhere!

It is not a matter of "attacking Mrs. White", but are Adventists allowed to check out the list of unfulfilled "prophecies" listed on www.ellenwhiteexposed.com? I understand those people also attack the Sabbath, but their FACTS about EGW do check out right!

What that website deems as fact, and you too, may not be fact at all.

Case in point:

You were pretty certain that Ellen White had said that Satan was in the Holy place. But when I first glanced at the paragraph, I could plainly see that this was not what she was saying at all.

In fact it is so plain, that you shouldn't even need the help of the Holy Spirit to see it.

Methinks you may be on a bit of a crusade, with an anti-EGW agenda. Or maybe you're just easily taken in by these types of websites. It's best to avoid them if possible.

[phkrause]

Methinks you may be on a bit of a crusade, with an anti-EGW agenda. Or maybe you're just easily taken in by these types of websites. It's best to avoid them if possible.

I'm in agreement RLH, seems like they come out of the woodwork, after claiming they have no agenda!

[Woody]

Originally Posted By: RLH

Methinks you may be on a bit of a crusade, with an anti-EGW agenda. Or maybe you're just easily taken in by these types of websites. It's best to avoid them if possible.

I'm in agreement RLH, seems like they come out of the woodwork, after claiming they have no agenda!

[Umfundize]

There is a difference between an agenda and a sincere quest for truth.

How would YOU react if you found out FOR SURE EGW did make some projections "as shown by my angel", that never was fulfilled? Keep on living in denial? When people discover they were wrong by keeping Sunday, should they then keep Sabbath or just deny the truth?

So, as an example, the vision of the "food for worms" was conditional? Maybe a typo? Why is it that we must always try and find an excuse or defense for so many things Ellen White wrote that was PROVEN WRONG?

And for Satan to "appear" CAN mean TO ACTUALLY BE THERE! Just BTW .

[Woody]

There is a difference between an agenda and a sincere quest for truth.

How would YOU react if you found out FOR SURE EGW did make some projections "as shown by my angel", that never was fulfilled? Keep on living in denial? When people discover they were wrong by keeping Sunday, should they then keep Sabbath or just deny the truth?

So, as an example, the vision of the "food for worms" was conditional? Maybe a typo? Why is it that we must always try and find an excuse or defense for so many things Ellen White wrote that was PROVEN WRONG?

And for Satan to "appear" CAN mean TO ACTUALLY BE THERE! Just BTW .

No human is perfect Umfundize. I have no doubts that Ellen White was not perfect. All we can do is measure what she wrote with scripture and do as she told us to do and discard that which does not measure up.

[Lysimachus]

And for Satan to "appear" CAN mean TO ACTUALLY BE THERE! Just BTW .

Yes, he can actually be in the minds of the people. Spiritually speaking, the message of the Holy Place became darkness when refusing to advance with God's people unto greater truths. The reformers were stuck in a rut, not moving forward. The Adventist body of believers provides further finishing touches to the Reformation where the Reformers left off. But it is not yet complete.

God's true Adventists will stand vindicated, and they will triumph.

All these websites you list are full of garbage, inside and out, and there are numerous websites on the net that take the careful time to refute each of the arguments presented in the websites you are linking. It's old news Umfundize. Been there, done that. I've read more garbage on these websites than you probably, and I can testify that that is exactly what they are: garbage. Why? Because the evidence is lacking. And the counter-websites soundly refute them. When it comes down to brass tax, the arguments used against Ellen White and Adventism is filled with hot air. Full of fluff.

It's all false.

[Umfundize]

I read on one of those sites that EGW made a prophesy about "food for worms", made some wrong medical claims, some statements about slaves who will not be resurrected, all will be white in heaven, different races the result of amalgamation between humans and animals, etc. These are all garbage and NO TRUTH in any of those allegations?

Did you check up on these things? Some have!

[Gerr]

I read on one of those sites that EGW made a prophesy about "food for worms", made some wrong medical claims, some statements about slaves who will not be resurrected, all will be white in heaven, different races the result of amalgamation between humans and animals, etc. These are all garbage and NO TRUTH in any of those allegations?

Did you check up on these things? Some have!

You have a problem with her statement, "food for worms"? Do you have a problem with this statement from Isaiah?

ESV | ‎Is 66:24 “And they shall go out and look on the dead bodies of the men who have rebelled against me. For their worm shall not die, their fire shall not be quenched, and they shall be an abhorrence to all flesh.”

I'd like to see the reference about everybody being white in heaven, and also those false medical claims. Personally, I prefer to keep my natural tan!!!

Regarding the amalgamation of man & animals, this used to perplex me too, but have you ever heard of genetic engineering?

[Umfundize]

The statement of the worms comes from prophetess Ellen White. Simply do the research yourself and Google: Ellen White and Food for Worms prophecy. It has nothing to do with Isaiah, but her OWN prophecy!

GH, March 1, 1901,par 2 "In heaven there will be no color line for all will be as WHITE as Christ Himself. Let us thank God that we can be members of the royal family" No matter how the spinmeisters try to defend this: context, conditional, they loose!

277 EW 276.1 "God permits slaves who never heard the gospel AS IF THEY HAD NOT BEEN (will not be resurrected).

Again, regarding the false medical claims, simply Google: Ellen White and her Medical Claims.

Be brave and try your personal research. The Internet is free for all to research. One of the EGW statements I found most disgusting, is when she said JESUS' blood took our sins into heaven! (thusly defiling God's abode, to be cleansed hundreds of years later!)

SOP, vol 4, p.266 "our sins, IN FACT transferred to the heavenly sanctuary BY the blood of God"!

How can we defend a "prophetess" like that. And you say?

[Lysimachus]

I've done the research Umfundize. I've read all the nasty garbage, inside and out. I've read all her statements in fuller contexts on the CD-Rom. I've also read the counter arguments at Pickle-Publishing.com and numerous other websites defending Ellen White. You are clipping out statements out of their larger contexts, and that is deceptive. Satanic at best.

When it comes down to it, there is nothing to them. These websites are demonic. Demon possessed.

And you are wasting your time reading them.

If you buy them, you are falling for a delusion. A satanic one at best.

If you are honest, you will take out time to read the scores of websites that have exegetically refuted the anti-EGW websites. It's all available for the honest soul.

[Gerr]

The statement of the worms comes from prophetess Ellen White. Simply do the research yourself and Google: Ellen White and Food for Worms prophecy. It has nothing to do with Isaiah, but her OWN prophecy!

You have no idea how much time I've wasted chasing down every criticism out there. You are the one making the charges. The burden of evidence is on you.

Quote:

GH, March 1, 1901,par 2 "In heaven there will be no color line for all will be as WHITE as Christ Himself. Let us thank God that we can be members of the royal family"

You have a problem with that? If you think we will be all looking like Caucasians, you are sadly mistaken. "We shall ALL be changed." 1 Cor 15:51. ESV | ‎1 Jn 3:2 Beloved, we are God’s children now, and what we will be has not yet appeared; but we know that when he appears we shall be like him,..."

What does the glorified Jesus look like? ESV | ‎Re 1:14 "The hairs of his head were white, like white wool, like snow. His eyes were like a flame of fire, ‎15 his feet were like burnished bronze, refined in a furnace, and his voice was like the roar of many waters. ‎16 In his right hand he held seven stars, from his mouth came a sharp two-edged sword, and his face was like the sun shining in full strength."

Your whitest skin will be blackness in contrast to His glorified body!

Quote:

No matter how the spinmeisters try to defend this: context, conditional, they loose!

Ah, how easily some people are unsettled from truth!

Quote:

277 EW 276.1 "God permits slaves who never heard the gospel AS IF THEY HAD NOT BEEN (will not be resurrected).

]

Let me ask you. Will God resurrect any of the beasts?

Quote:

Again, regarding the false medical claims, simply Google: Ellen White and her Medical Claims.

Be brave and try your personal research. The Internet is free for all to research.

I suggest you read Judd Lake's "EGW & her Critics", and on medical matters, a book authored by Drs. Brand & McMahon. I can't locate my copy right now to tell you the title.

Quote:

One of the EGW statements I found most disgusting, is when she said JESUS' blood took our sins into heaven! (thusly defiling God's abode, to be cleansed hundreds of years later!)

SOP, vol 4, p.266 "our sins, IN FACT transferred to the heavenly sanctuary BY the blood of God"!

How can we defend a "prophetess" like that. And you say?

KJV 1900 | ‎Ps 77:13 Thy way, O God, is in the sanctuary: Who is so great a God as our God?

KJV 1900 | ‎Da 8:14 And he said unto me, Unto two thousand and three hundred days; then shall the sanctuary be cleansed.

Study the subject of the sanctuary and you will find the answer.

[M. T. Cross]

Quote:

WHERE was SATAN on October 22, 1844?

Puttin up his Halloween decorations!

[Umfundize]

OK, I accept then that we will all be white (in heaven)! But the BIBLE does NOT SAY we go to heaven, EVER. Heaven will come down TO US!

[Gerr]

ESV | ‎Php 3:21 who will transform our lowly body to be like his glorious body, by the power that enables him even to subject all things to himself.

[Umfundize]

So, do we understand that EGW was CORRECT when she SAW Satan at the throne of Jesus in the Holy Place on Oct 22,1844, ANSWERING people's prayers? Accordingly, Satan is in heaven IN FACT.

When was he finally expulsed or is he still there, now accusing the brethren in the Most Holy Place? When did he move there? EGW said the prayers of the members of the "nominal churches" are not heard. Do you believe that?

[Gibs]

He, Satan continually stands as the accuser and claims as his subjects,

"While Jesus is pleading for the subjects of His grace, Satan accuses them before God as transgressors. . . . {OFC 78.4}

Jesus does not excuse their sins, but shows their penitence and faith, and, claiming for them forgiveness, He lifts His wounded hands before the Father and the holy angels, saying, “I know them by name.” . . . Their names stand enrolled in the book of life, and concerning them it is written, “They shall walk with me in white: for they are worthy.” Revelation 3:4. {OFC 78.5}

Christians may daily cultivate faith by contemplating the One who has undertaken their cause, their “merciful and faithful high priest.” {OFC 78.6}

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[Gerr]

When was he finally expulsed or is he still there, now accusing the brethren in the Most Holy Place? When did he move there? EGW said the prayers of the members of the "nominal churches" are not heard. Do you believe that?

nominal - 3 a : existing or being something in name or form only 〈nominal head of his party〉

Merriam-Webster, I. (2003). Merriam-Webster’s collegiate dictionary. (Eleventh ed.). Springfield, MA: Merriam-Webster, Inc.

ESV | ‎Ex 20:7 “You shall not take the name of the LORD your God in vain, for the LORD will not hold him guiltless who takes his name in vain.

NASB95 | ‎Ps 66:18 If I regard wickedness in my heart, The Lord will not hear;

Do you believe that?

[Gerr]

So, do we understand that EGW was CORRECT when she SAW Satan at the throne of Jesus in the Holy Place on Oct 22,1844, ANSWERING people's prayers? Accordingly, Satan is in heaven IN FACT.

ESV | ‎Re 12:10 And I heard a loud voice in heaven, saying, “Now the salvation and the power and the kingdom of our God and the authority of his Christ have come, for the accuser of our brothers has been thrown down, who accuses them day and night before our God.

Do you believe that?