Redemption for all?

[M. T. Cross]

Thanks...... I think

I learned a great few lessons from a man named Mark Stinson, who stresses above all living your religion.

[JoeMo]

When Catholicism invaded the Americas, their form of mission work was to offer Jesus or beheading. Tough choice. We currently see much Islam vs. Hindu vs. Christianity in India (although it's not often in the news). It's sad to say that more people have likely been murdered or imprisoned in the name of Jesus than any other cause in the past 2,000 years.

On the other hand, it is said that over 250,000 Christians were martyred for their faith in 2011. We see on this site people slandered and insulted in the name of Jesus. It's sad. Thank God there are some on this site who are realizing the freedom of religion we all have by right; and can openly discuss our various dieties without fear of reprisal or condemnation. Some of the most insightful comments on this site have come from non-believers and seekers.

MTCross, for one, has a great comment above - we need to live our religion, not just debate it.

[Gibs]

One don't get sugar water from a lemon for sure and here is how Jesus stated it,

Mt 7:16 Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?

Mt 7:17 Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit.

Mt 7:18 A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.

Mt 7:19 Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.

Mt 7:20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[fccool]

The issue with "they are not practicing the religion correctly" type of argument is that it's a "no true Christian would ...." fallacy. The fact is that religious view are subjective, just like any other view. It constantly constructs and modifies the criteria of "No true Christian would ....".

Another issue is that much of the fundamental religious dogmas are inseparable from certain ideals and ideas. Most of the people on this board, for example, think that Jews have the God-given right to violently solve the conflict in the Palestine because they were promised the land they are currently occupying by God himself. Religion dogmas in such cases don't look at the idea of objective harm, these merely look for certain justification.

So, when you say "we need to live out our religion", which aspects of the religion are you talking about? Jesus, for example had "If you are not with me, you are against me" mentality. Even in the case of "meek and tolerant Jesus" you have enormous pressure to separate people into "us and them". There are Children of Satan, who believe lies, and there are Children of God, who walk the path of truth. Anyone who does not believe is condemned already.

It's an extremely divisive and very psychologically abusive ideology. You certainly could separate all of the beneficial aspects from all of the potentially divisive and psychologically detrimental... but which organized religion does it today? Organized religion thrives on such ideology.

Thus, when you are talking about "living out one's religion", what do you mean?

[fccool]

“Whoever acknowledges Me before people, I will acknowledge before My Father in heaven. But whoever denies Me before people, I will deny him also before My Father in heaven. Do not think that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I have not come to bring peace but a sword.” ~Matthew 10:32,3

“For I have come to set a man against his father, a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law, and a man’s enemies will be the members of his household.

“Whoever loves father or mother more than Me is not worthy of Me, and whoever loves son or daughter more than Me is not worthy of Me. And whoever does not take up his cross and follow Me is not worthy of Me.

Whoever finds his life will lose it, and whoever loses his life because of Me will find it.” ~Matthew 10:34-39

[JoeMo]

fc,

You make some very good points; but you sometimes over-generalize. There are many people on this site who are quite spiritual, but are non- (dare I even say anti-) denominational. Strict adherence to the precepts of a denomination may make one a member of that denomination, but it has nothing to do with making one a member of the kingdom of whatever god they follow. There is a distinct difference between being "religious" and being "spiritual".It is my opinion that YHVH (or any other deity) is more interested in a relationship (spiritual) than a specific set of doctrines (religious).

Just my opinion ...

[CoAspen]

[M. T. Cross]

One don't get sugar water from a lemon for sure and here is how Jesus stated it,