The Androgyny Deception

[Denise]

Originally Posted By: olger

We have heard your evidence, we have understood your arguments, and we have searched Scripture for ourselves to see if these things were true. When you say women can be elders and pastors, what you are saying is simply not faithful to Scripture; it is not what Scripture teaches.

Go in peace,

oG

Originally Posted By: mrsducky

Amen!

Amen!!

And a Amen here! Jesus is coming soon! :)

[mrsducky]

Anyone reviewed to story of Korah's rebellion lately? I think there is application to the issue of women's ordination? (my comment is not directed at anyone in particular--just wondering.)

[Denise]

Anyone reviewed to story of Korah's rebellion lately? I think there is application to the issue of women's ordination? (my comment is not directed at anyone in particular--just wondering.)

No, I am studying and reading something else, but that does sound interesting to review that....

[teresaq]

Anyone reviewed to story of Korah's rebellion lately? I think there is application to the issue of women's ordination? (my comment is not directed at anyone in particular--just wondering.)

Only vaguely if God in reality 'ordained' that only men could hold leadership positions in the church.

But why not knock off the attempted guilting and condemning of those who honestly do not agree with the antis' choice of scriptures and understanding in an attempt to prove their view?

Even Moses had nothing to say to Korah in the way of condemnation.

Nor did Jesus to Satan,

Jude 1:9 KJV

Yet Michael the archangel, when contending with the devil he disputed about the body of Moses, durst not bring against him a railing accusation, but said , The Lord rebuke thee.

Whom the angels imitate,

2 Peter 2:11 KJV

Whereas angels, which are greater in power and might, bring not railing accusation against them before the Lord.

So if Jesus and the angels are above that sort of thing just why is it we feel at liberty? Is it because we prefer a different 'spirit'? (Keeping in line with JoeMo I apply it to all of us. Way too much self-justified judging and condemning going against those we disagree with. If our arguments can't win the day, then maybe the arguments are wrong.)

[mrsducky]

It is true that Moses did not rebuke Korah and his following. That was God's job He did it well. It is pretty clear in reading the posts in this discussion that there are those with a pro ordination view. I have always been of the opinion that what I (or anyone else for that matter) believe doesn't matter unless it is in agreement with Scripture! Far be it from me to guilt anyone!

[olger]

Anyone reviewed to story of Korah's rebellion lately? I think there is application to the issue of women's ordination? (my comment is not directed at anyone in particular--just wondering.)

Pastor Stephen Bohr had a recent article on that very topic. It can be read at "Christ or Culture."

G

[Naomi]

It is a good article ... he spoke quite a lot last night on a tele conference ... he should be here soon ... am anxious to hear him in person.

[jasd]

QR frame:

Rev 1:6 And hath made us kings and priests unto God and his Father; to him be glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen.

Hoo-ah, hey – lookee here!—the sixth verse into the book of Revelation – and is informing in the past tense that the Xtian has BEEN MADE “kings and priests” already like.

Soooo, I hear the gallery chime, “Tha’s anuther kinda priest – not the kind that we’s been thought Biblical – y’know, a numinous, evanescentatious kinda holier vapor tha's spiritial.”

But, let me note: I see no distinction re a hierarchate of priests in the proffered text – seems they’s alla accounted same… young, old, fat, skinny, bald, hirsute, red, white, black, yellow, in betweens…, whoa!—there’s a pattern - and is readin’ in 21st century lingua franca as chiasmatic, sorta:

“There is neither Jew nor Greek, slave nor free, male nor female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus.” (Gal 3:28)

Hmm, wonder if that translates and travels to the Corporate Collective…? Nah, what would our Catholic Brethren do? Is easy: Keep the weaker vessel unlearned, pregnant, and in the kitchen. Hoo-ah! After all, ain not us burlies goin’ tah be bakin’ thems unleavenated krispies every other three months…

Well, I s’pose that to deny the weaker vessel her equality under the sun re things that pertain to the Great Commission and the ministration of the flock,

we simply redefine what a priest is and what the priest does – otherwise, we conflict and conflate the Word of Gd.

Like, hey, ain not nuthin' androgynus 'bout the priesthoodlum.

[teresaq]

I wonder if the anti side see man as the intermediary between woman and Jesus?

[jasd]

“The Church is both visible and spiritual, a hierarchical society…” --Catechism of the Catholic Church, The Profession of Faith,

"The Seventh-day Adventist Church is essentially a hierarchical system..." --Bruce Manners, Associate Editor of the Record

… "from both groups [hierarchy and laity] there exist Christian faithful who are consecrated to God in their own special manner and serve the salvific mission of the Church through the profession of the evangelical counsels." --Catechism of the Catholic Church, The Profession of Faith,

"The Seventh-day Adventist Church follows a model of organizational order in the church which is modified from the orders of Roman Catholicism, but it retains the same notions of clerical order which separates the members of the Church into two classes--clergy and laity." –Douglas Devnich, president of the Canadian Union of Seventh-day Adventists, in the Messenger

"'The Roman Pontiff, head of the college of bishops...supreme pastor and teacher of all the faithful...’" --Catechism of the Catholic Church, The Profession of Faith,

"Elder Robert H. Pierson is the President of [the] General Conference and, as such the first (or supreme) minister (or pastor) of the Seventh-day Adventist Church." --Court Transcript of United States vs the Seventh-day Adventist Church,

"... the supreme pontiffs....the supreme pastors and teachers of the Church of God, the guardians and interpreters of the patrimony of the faith..." Pope Paul VI, in Sacerdotalis Caelibatus (The Celibacy of the Priest),

"Many church members would say that the power in the Seventh-day Adventist Church resides with the president...He has authority to decide and act....he does have considerable power.... "He's the spiritual leader of the community of faith....He's shepherd, guardian, guide and captain (or head)." --Walter Scragg, President of the South Pacific Division of the Seventh-day Adventist Church, in the Record,

"By force of their vocation, which sets them at the heart of the [Catholic] Church, nuns undertake in a special way to have ‘the mind of the Church (sentire cum Ecclesia)’, with sincere adherence to the Magisterium and unreserved obedience to the Pope." Verbi Sponsa (Instruction on the Contemplative Life and on the Enclosure of Nuns),

"Those who work for the Seventh-day Adventist Church respond to a religious vocation in exactly the same sense as does a cloistered nun." Court Transcript of United States vs the Seventh-day Adventist Church,

…ETC

Hmmm, colours of androgyny?—sorta? So, seems the .Org has sometimes gotten back-frontwards re leadership diktats whilst forgetting the congregational aspects of the early churches (the Churches at Ephesus, the Church at Smyrna, the Church at Phillippi, etc) – which were structural facts - rather than doctrinaire interpretations [supposed] of the opinions/suggestions of Saint Paul.

But, how now brown cow?—does one countenance the fact that the .Org has subsumed and rendered the body of Jesus Christ to that of a creature/entity of the State, that is, Caesar?

Ain not that unBiblical?—in the extreme? Back-frontism?—as WO notions?