WO is Approved by the Pacific Union

[Woody]

Your thoughts

[Woody]

79% -21%

Excellent

[CyberGuy]

4 to 1 margin same as columbia

[lazarus]

Ball is now in GC's court. I think conferences will have actual ordination services quite soon. I received my new credential on Friday.

[Woody]

Can anyone explain the political impact of the refusal by the delegates to approve the policy change? THe one that lost by one percent?

[Stan]

I think it was a bad parliamentary decision, that will come back and bite them.

[Woody]

Yeah. It might be. I have no idea. But it really was something that made absolutely NO difference.

That being said - I was hoping they would ask that someone else make the call.

[Woody]

Just read Ted's response to the Pacific Union vote.

He really doesn't get it.

Does HE realize his response,words and actions are causing disunity in our church.

We need to unite and not divide. What HE is doing - is divisive.

[olger]

I think it was a bad parliamentary decision, that will come back and bite them.

I do too.

I also believe that timing might be bad for PUC. German Union just acquiesced to the wishes of the Division to wait and there is an unconfirmed report that Pennsylvania has withdrawn support for the CUC wo decision.

stay tuned...

[CyberGuy]

Can anyone explain the political impact of the refusal by the delegates to approve the policy change? THe one that lost by one percent?

That was approved 65 percent to 35 percent but evidently it requires a 2/3rds vote to change the wording of the bylaws. So it was defeated. I do not know the ramifications of that if any.

[CyberGuy]

Just read Ted's response to the Pacific Union vote.

He really doesn't get it.

Does HE realize his response,words and actions are causing disunity in our church.

We need to unite and not divide. What HE is doing - is divisive.

I am not surprised. His dad was that way as well. Like father like son.

[Daryl]

How could they go ahead and vote to approve WO when they failed to amend their bylaws allowing them to vote on the WO item?

Didn't they knowlingly vote an action contrary to their own bylaws?

Wouldn't that make their second vote legally null and void?

I am surprised that their legal counsel, in whatever form that existed there, approved their voting of the WO item.

I think it was a bad parliamentary decision, that will come back and bite them.

[Stan]

Turns out they were told ahead of time that they did not need to do the first one, but it was already on the agenda.

[Daryl]

Didn't they still knowlingly vote an action contrary to their own bylaws?

[Tom Wetmore]

No, the bylaw amendment was not about WO. As Stan said, after it was already on the agenda it was determined to not be as necessary as originally thought. But since it was already on the agenda that was published for this special constituency meeting they needed to act on it anyway.

[Daryl]

Then, when that action failed, why did they question at first whether or not to consider the next action?

No, the bylaw amendment was not about WO. As Stan said, after it was already on the agenda it was determined to not be as necessary as originally thought. But since it was already on the agenda that was published for this special constituency meeting they needed to act on it anyway.

[CyberGuy]

Here is more information about the events of this past weekend. I was informed that the press release from the Union had a mistake so attached is the new and updated version. Also you will find two links one for the SECC event on Sabbath Aug. 18 that was held at the Loma Linda University church, and the second link will direct you to the video of the Pacific Union Conference special constituency report.

SECC 8/12/2012 event - http://vimeo.com/47795695

If you want to see the whole session click on the link below.

PUC Special Constituency session 8/19/2012 - http://swankav.mediasite.com/mediasite/Play/4a7a9c98563f457cb4546b3852c5c2561d

Below is the corrected press release.

Pacific Union Session Delegates Vote to Approve Ordinations to the Gospel Ministry Without Regard to Gender

CORRECTION: An earlier version of this release from the Pacific Union Conference incorrectly attributed statements made by General Conference President Ted Wilson to North American Division President Dan Jackson. The corrected attributions appear in paragraphs 4-6 below.

By Michael Peabody for the Pacific Union Conference

WOODLAND HILLS, CA – Delegates to a special session of the Pacific Union Conference voted 79% to 21% to “approve ordinations to the gospel ministry without regard to gender,” but narrowly defeated a motion to amend the Union bylaws by a margin of 1%.

The Pacific Union Conference of Seventh-day Adventists is comprised of 220,000 members in five western states, including Arizona, California, Hawaii, Nevada, and Utah.

In his introductory remarks, Pacific Union President Ricardo Graham asked delegates to affirm both male and female pastors who are called by God. “We have been given a powerful message to live and to preach, and we want to find the best way to motivate all the talented people in our body to reach others for God,” said Graham. “We dare not close off God’s methodology.”

North American Division President Dan Jackson affirmed the role of women in the ministry, but said that the NAD representatives were present as counselors. “Mediation of the truth is often as important as the truth itself,” he said. “In matters of conscience, it is not the right of one man to direct another.” Trying to do so, he said, suggests that others are not capable of listening to and obeying the voice of the Holy Spirit.

General Conference President Ted Wilson called for unity, asking delegates to allow the Theology of Ordination Study Committee to finalize its report, expected in 2014, before making any decision that could jeopardize the structure of the church. “The church policies are the agreements we make with one another as to how we will work with one another,” said Wilson.

He also cautioned that a vote in favor of women’s ordination would not be in concert with the will of the world church, which at General Conference sessions in 1990 and 1995, turned down requests from the North American Division to ordain women.

“Sometimes we need to be prodded to progress,” responded Southern California Conference President Larry Caviness.

Andrea Trusty-King, pastor of the Imani Praise Seventh-day Adventist Church, near Riverside, Calif., shared her personal experience of being called to the ministry as a youth. She said that she had doubts about filling a pastoral role, but now faces tremendous challenges and successes as a minister in Moreno Valley and other places. “I should have expected this,” she said of being used by God to minister. “In the last days God said he would pour out His Spirit on all flesh.”

Randy Roberts, pastor of the Loma Linda University Church, said, “There is no text in Scripture that forbids the ordination of women – not one. In fact, Scripture tells of women who filled every leadership role conceivable.”

Roberts then claimed official church doctrinal ground for supporting women’s ordination, present in Fundamental Belief number 14. “In Christ we are a new creation; distinctions of race, culture, learning, and nationality, and differences between high and low, rich and poor, male and female, must not be divisive among us. We are all equal in Christ, who by one Spirit has bonded us into one fellowship with Him and with one another; we are to serve and be served without partiality or reservation.”

“These are words voted by the GC in session. That’s doctrine. Doctrine is the basis for policy,” said Roberts, who then cited history from biblical times to the present. “In every age, followers of Jesus have been called to make very important and, at times, very frightening decisions. They have been told that to make such decisions would lead to the fracture of the church. But time and again, it did not result in its fracture, but in its salvation.”

Delegates expressed concern about the proposed change in the bylaws which would have replaced language saying that the Pacific Union would follow “all” of the polices of the General Conference, with new language saying that Pacific Union policies would “in general” be in harmony with General Conference policy. The amendment, which required a two-thirds vote to pass, failed by approximately 1%.

Despite suggestions from some delegates that the failure of the motion to amend the bylaws should prevent the second issue, women’s ordination, from being heard, Pacific Union Conference legal counsel, Jon Daggett, advised the delegates that the issue of women’s ordination could still be voted and acted upon.

After intense discussion, delegates voted that the Pacific Union would approve ordinations, “without regard to gender,” when such approvals are requested by the conferences. In accordance with world policy, local conferences select candidates for ordination, and the local conferences ordain those who are approved by the unions.

The action applies only to the local conferences within the Pacific Union territory that choose to ordain women. Women who are ordained in a local conference within the Pacific Union will generally be recognized as “commissioned” in other conferences or unions.

Graham concluded by acknowledging the vigor of the debate. “The most important thing is how we stay together and move forward,” he said. “We have registered our conscience through our vote. We’ve had discussion and debate. Now let’s go do the work of God.”

[CyberGuy]

Below is Ted Wilsons response to the PUC Vote

A RESPONSE TO THE ACTION OF THE PACIFIC UNION CONFERENCE CONSTIUENCY MEETING ON SUNDAY, AUGUST 19, 2012

The 17 million members of the Seventh-day Adventist Church are united through the Holy Spirit in a common commitment to Christ and the truths of His Word, an urgent end-time mission, and a divinely inspired church organization. A threat to any one of these places at risk the unity of the church. It is for this reason that the leadership of the Seventh-day Adventist Church affirms the Pacific Union’s action not to change their Constitution and remain in harmony with the world church. This represents a step in a positive direction. The General Conference leadership is seriously concerned, though, with the Pacific Union’s subsequent action to preempt the collective decisions of the world church regarding ordination. Unilateral actions contrary to the voted decisions of the global church seriously threaten the unity of the church.

The world church recognizes the vital role that women play in the life, ministry and leadership of the church and encourages their active involvement. Because the General Conference Administrative Committee has already voted and commenced the most comprehensive study in our history on the subject of ordination, which will include the study of the ordination of women, the action of the Pacific Union to grant Ministerial Ordination “without respect to gender” preempts the process voted for the current study of ordination theology and practices by committing the Pacific Union Conference to a particular outcome before the study-and-discussion process is completed. It also expresses a lack of trust in the integrity of the general process accepted and voted by General Conference administrators and personnel, division officers, and pastors and lay members from all the world divisions who serve on the General Conference Executive Committee, which includes the presidents of the 125 unions representing the world church, regarding how we approach common challenges.

Further, the action is contrary to General Conference Working Policy and sets aside the 1990 and 1995 decisions of the General Conference in Session respecting the practice of ordination. The action taken by the Pacific Union Conference represents a serious threat to the unity of the worldwide Seventh-day Adventist Church, and thus, at its next meeting in October 2012, as indicated in another recent public statement by General Conference officers and division presidents, the General Conference Executive Committee will carefully review the situation and determine how to respond. In the spirit of our Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ, the officers of the General Conference appeal to all entities, organizations, and individuals, including the Pacific Union Conference, to refrain from independent and unilateral decisions and from implementing any such actions.

It is our prayer that the “oneness” Jesus prayed for in His great intercessory prayer in John 17, and that which the disciples experienced in Acts 2, will be manifest in His church today. We pray that the result of this “oneness” will be lives transformed by His grace, united in His love, and empowered by His Spirit to proclaim His last-day message in all of its fullness to a perishing planet, hastening the glorious return of our Lord.

Ted N. C. Wilson, President

General Conference of Seventh-day Adventists

G. T. Ng, Secretary

General Conference of Seventh-day Adventists

Robert E. Lemon, Treasurer

General Conference of Seventh-day Adventists

[CyberGuy]

Below is Ted Wilsons response to the PUC Vote

A RESPONSE TO THE ACTION OF THE PACIFIC UNION CONFERENCE CONSTIUENCY MEETING ON SUNDAY, AUGUST 19, 2012

The 17 million members of the Seventh-day Adventist Church are united through the Holy Spirit in a common commitment to Christ and the truths of His Word, an urgent end-time mission, and a divinely inspired church organization. A threat to any one of these places at risk the unity of the church. It is for this reason that the leadership of the Seventh-day Adventist Church affirms the Pacific Union’s action not to change their Constitution and remain in harmony with the world church. This represents a step in a positive direction. The General Conference leadership is seriously concerned, though, with the Pacific Union’s subsequent action to preempt the collective decisions of the world church regarding ordination. Unilateral actions contrary to the voted decisions of the global church seriously threaten the unity of the church.

The world church recognizes the vital role that women play in the life, ministry and leadership of the church and encourages their active involvement. Because the General Conference Administrative Committee has already voted and commenced the most comprehensive study in our history on the subject of ordination, which will include the study of the ordination of women, the action of the Pacific Union to grant Ministerial Ordination “without respect to gender” preempts the process voted for the current study of ordination theology and practices by committing the Pacific Union Conference to a particular outcome before the study-and-discussion process is completed. It also expresses a lack of trust in the integrity of the general process accepted and voted by General Conference administrators and personnel, division officers, and pastors and lay members from all the world divisions who serve on the General Conference Executive Committee, which includes the presidents of the 125 unions representing the world church, regarding how we approach common challenges.

Further, the action is contrary to General Conference Working Policy and sets aside the 1990 and 1995 decisions of the General Conference in Session respecting the practice of ordination. The action taken by the Pacific Union Conference represents a serious threat to the unity of the worldwide Seventh-day Adventist Church, and thus, at its next meeting in October 2012, as indicated in another recent public statement by General Conference officers and division presidents, the General Conference Executive Committee will carefully review the situation and determine how to respond. In the spirit of our Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ, the officers of the General Conference appeal to all entities, organizations, and individuals, including the Pacific Union Conference, to refrain from independent and unilateral decisions and from implementing any such actions.

It is our prayer that the “oneness” Jesus prayed for in His great intercessory prayer in John 17, and that which the disciples experienced in Acts 2, will be manifest in His church today. We pray that the result of this “oneness” will be lives transformed by His grace, united in His love, and empowered by His Spirit to proclaim His last-day message in all of its fullness to a perishing planet, hastening the glorious return of our Lord.

Ted N. C. Wilson, President

General Conference of Seventh-day Adventists

G. T. Ng, Secretary

General Conference of Seventh-day Adventists

Robert E. Lemon, Treasurer

General Conference of Seventh-day Adventists

This is a thinly vailed threat. It would be interesting to see what retailiation he will do since the money comes from the churches to the confernece to the union to the NAD to the GC,

Who holds the purse strings. Ted should consider that.

[CoAspen]

Again, I am struck by the words 'unity of world church, instead of against the will of God or anything that would suggest rebellion against the Bible teachings. Not once is anything being said about not following the H*S in these decisions. The 'oneness' that is spoken about is interpreted as meaning 'following the church leadership'.

Continuing disappointing words! Stand in place, do not march forward...until told too!!

The question I would like to hear addressed by the GC, is, who is in charge, the pres or the H*S?

[lazarus]

Words is that there are two main options. Apply pressure to NAD president, Union presidents etc. or dissolve the Unions who took the action. The latter ain't gonna happen.

Next topic please.

[Woody]

Do I hear some 'cracking'? Or do you feel that they will crack?

[CyberGuy]

Words is that there are two main options. Apply pressure to NAD president, Union presidents etc. or dissolve the Unions who took the action. The latter ain't gonna happen.

Next topic please.

Not going to happen. The NAD president has said that he is working for womans ordination division wide by 2015.

Also two other Unions are considering the same action PUC took but will wait until 2014 to see what the committee comes up with. If nothing happens then they will move forward.

I am told that the Chinese church has been ordaining women pastors for 20 years.

Korea has told the NAD unions to move ahead on women ordaination for they want to do the same ASAP.

This movement is spreading worldwide.

[CyberGuy]

14. Unity in the Body of Christ:

The church is one body with many members, called from every nation, kindred, tongue, and people. In Christ we are a new creation; distinctions of race, culture, learning, and nationality, and differences between high and low, rich and poor, male and female, must not be divisive among us. We are all equal in Christ, who by one Spirit has bonded us into one fellowship with Him and with one another; we are to serve and be served without partiality or reservation. Through the revelation of Jesus Christ in the Scriptures we share the same faith and hope, and reach out in one witness to all. This unity has its source in the oneness of the triune God, who has adopted us as His children. (Rom. 12:4, 5; 1 Cor. 12:12-14; Matt. 28:19, 20; Ps. 133:1; 2 Cor. 5:16, 17; Acts 17:26, 27; Gal. 3:27, 29; Col. 3:10-15; Eph. 4:14-16; 4:1-6; John 17:20-23.)

This was Randy Roberts main point. We are obeying our #14 Fundamental belief by not treating women pastors any different than men pastors in the ordination process

[Woody]

Originally Posted By: lazarus

Words is that there are two main options. Apply pressure to NAD president, Union presidents etc. or dissolve the Unions who took the action. The latter ain't gonna happen.

Next topic please.

Not going to happen. The NAD president has said that he is working for womans ordination division wide by 2015.

Also two other Unions are considering the same action PUC took but will wait until 2014 to see what the committee comes up with. If nothing happens then they will move forward.

I am told that the Chinese church has been ordaining women pastors for 20 years.

Korea has told the NAD unions to move ahead on women ordaination for they want to do the same ASAP.

This movement is spreading worldwide.