Why I carry a gun

[Gordon1]

It is worth noting that Jesus did not tell Peter to get rid of his sword. He told him to put it back in its place. One of the gospels noted that Peter was not the only one of the disciples carrying a sword when Jesus was arrested. This was after 3 years of being with Jesus. Don't you think Jesus was very much aware that they were carrying swords? Yet he had not told them to get rid of their weapons.

Do you feel that followers of Christ should not own or carry any guns?

You make a good point Tom. Yes, I'm sure Christ knew they had swords.

But would He command them to abandon their innate self-defense?

No. Peter was not yet converted.

Luke 22:

verse 32 - "and when thou art converted, strengthen thy brethren."

verse 50 - "and one of them smote the servant.., and cut off his right ear."

verses 57 - 60 - Peter denied Him thrice.

Christ's only defense against our greatest foe was the Word of God.

Why rely upon guns? Someone always has a bigger gun.

But no one can outgun God.

[Tom Wetmore]

What about having a gun for other reasons?

[Naomi]

A gun for other reasons ... actually the other reasons are why I usually have a gun. Having spent a good deal of my life in the country we were taught early how to use guns, gun safety, etc. There are many things in the wild that can hurt of kill you, a weapon that you can use with accuracy is a good thing to have. Often I go to my farm to just walk in the woods

alone and away from any real help, I take an automatic weapon. It will get me help faster than mt cell phone; I don't miss! nuf sad

[Gordon1]

What about having a gun for other reasons?

Other reasons than killing people would be more palatable, such as warning off a bear or cougar.

Arming the clergy with handguns makes no sense. Christ came to save and restore sinners, not blast them. Either the ministers accept that, or they simply conform to worldly policy. And this is the main objection: Christians are called to be very different from the world's masses and operate with a much higher level of conduct. If we take up arms against our fellow man, we are just like them - trusting to force instead of the God of Heaven.

I'm averse to killing because God has spared my life many times.

Why serve Abaddon/Apollyon? - the Destroyer - enough people in that camp.

[lazarus]

Arming the clergy with handguns makes no sense.

You're right there. Who would arm them? GC or the local conference? I'd really like to choose my own firearm. Would there be an ammunition allowance?

Gordon, I'm glad you are passionate about being non-violent. That is to be admired but you have no biblical basis for asserting that those who carry/use a weapon to defend themselves are engaging in misconduct.

The defense of oneself, ones family, and others from danger is a noble thing. Most importantly it is not condemned in scripture. The followers of God were at times told by God's himself to take up arms.

To disparage others in the way you do because of your personal preference does a disservice to your cause and scripture. Don't make your personal conviction a "thus saith the Lord" . There's a word for that.

There are Christian men and women who defend our communities every day. Years ago I wasn't mature enough to realize that they were doing the work of God by drawing a gun and put a stop to an evil act.

As for me, I don't own a firearm. I never have owned one. I come from a culture that is very anti-gun. I can't see myself ever concealing and carrying one.

It's interesting to have a debate though, that's what CA is for, right?

[lazarus]

I don't miss! nuf sad

[LifeHiscost]

I listened to a minister this last Sabbath, which gave me more understanding about God's work with fallen humanity. It was tied in especially with God's desire to save all Who, even while practicing the "less than ideal", would eventually accept the ideal as opposed to the world's solutions to their problems, which in many cases is just to squash your enemy, one who Jesus desires to save despite their offenses. And most of us desire that way Jesus deals with mankind, especially when it comes to ourselves receiving that same kind of care.

The gist of the evangelist's thrust, that explains much of what God not only permitted, but actually commanded in the old testament, was based on the Word, "accommodate". Rather than wipe man off the map when he was still ignorant and immature about God's willingness to take care of ALL of man's needs, He accommodated their less than ideal solutions to solve their own problems, until they had enough time to learn that the way of the cross leads home, and while necessary to deny one's self, the inconveniences would reap results that would last for eternity.

The best example of this was the exodus of the Israelites out of Egypt. Those who allowed unsavory circumstances to teach them a better way, the ideal if you please, eventually entered into the promised land. Those who would not learn died in the desert, while only two entered the promised land.

"If you listen to these commands of the LORD your God that I am giving you today, and if you carefully obey them, the LORD will make you the head and not the tail, and you will always be on top and never at the bottom."

Deuteronomy 28:13 NLT

God blesses!

[Tom Wetmore]

Naomi,

Growing up on the farm I also was taught early how to use a gun. Guns were just a necessary part of life in the country.

Some would argue that walking the mean streets of a city have more dangers than a walk in the woods, requiring on the same basis that carrying a weapon is necessary.

[Naomi]

Tom, Having spent many years, traveling alone, while working in major cities I tend to agree. And, FWIW in my small town I have learned (from the inside) that there are many dangers in places one would not expect! God will protect us, but as with medical and other self-preservations I can't help but think He expects us to be responsible in protecting ourself, friends and family. Providing you are certain that you can pull the trigger! A shot to the knee will not kill but disable.

For those who do not wish to use lethal weapons a can of wasp spray directed to the eyes will send most people to the hospital ... a key in the eye will also buy you time. OTOH who wants to be that close to an attacker!

A thought ... Even in countries where guns are prohibited the criminals have guns, automatic, semi, etc. Anyone can go to Paris during the world gun show and buy any kind of weapon. Any doubts, buy a ticket and visit it will blow you away! No pun intended :)

[Naomi]

Originally Posted By: Naomi

I don't miss! nuf sad

don't worry you are safe ....

[Naomi]

Quote:

There are Christian men and women who defend our communities every day. Years ago I wasn't mature enough to realize that they were doing the work of God by drawing a gun and put a stop to an evil act.

I am probably the oldest deputy in the US but I can tell you after doing just a few drug raids and seeing the weapons they had in their homes, on their persons and in vehicles it made a believer of me. There are many, many good people in this world ... but the bad guys ARE BAD. My hat's off to the manyt officers, firemen, EMT's who are there to potect us. I do believe they are doing good ....

[LifeHiscost]

Quote:

I am probably the oldest deputy in the US but I can tell you after doing just a few drug raids and seeing the weapons they had in their homes, on their persons and in vehicles it made a believer of me. There are many, many good people in this world ... but the bad guys ARE BAD. My hat's off to the manyt officers, firemen, EMT's who are there to potect us. I do believe they are doing good ....

I can't help but believe what you're saying to be true. How far that extends to the private citizen might be termed problematic. I believe the military personnel, as well as other selected organization, who lay their lives on the line for their fellow citizens, fulfil a Divine calling.

"There is no greater love than to lay down one’s life for one’s friends."John 15:12 NLT

" For civil authorities are not a terror to [people of] good conduct, but to [those of] bad behavior. Would you have no dread of him who is in authority? Then do what is right and you will receive his approval and commendation.

For he is God’s servant for your good. But if you do wrong, [you should dread him and] be afraid, for he does not bear and wear the sword for nothing. He is God’s servant to execute His wrath (punishment, vengeance) on the wrongdoer.

Therefore one must be subject, not only to avoid God’s wrath and escape punishment, but also as a matter of principle and for the sake of conscience."Romans 13:3-5 AMP brackets, parenthesis theirs LHC

Of course, some might just call those Words "splatter".

God blesses!

[Planey]

" For civil authorities are not a terror to [people of] good conduct, but to [those of] bad behavior. Would you have no dread of him who is in authority? Then do what is right and you will receive his approval and commendation.

For he is God’s servant for your good. But if you do wrong, [you should dread him and] be afraid, for he does not bear and wear the sword for nothing. He is God’s servant to execute His wrath (punishment, vengeance) on the wrongdoer.

Therefore one must be subject, not only to avoid God’s wrath and escape punishment, but also as a matter of principle and for the sake of conscience."Romans 13:3-5 AMP brackets, parenthesis theirs LHC

Of course, some might just call those Words "splatter".

No, I would not call either of the texts you quoted to be "splatter".

However I have had many misgivings about the text you listed above. Does Paul mean we should always just accept whatever the authorites decree? What about if you lived inside the Third Reich? In Stalin's USSR? In Idi Amin's Uganda? In Mugabe's Zimbawe? The list is (almost) endless.

Does this rule out any form of civil protest?

Just asking...

Graeme

[Neil D]

[ I don't miss! nuf sad

[Neil D]

Quote:

I fear the insurance of a Glock lessens my dependence upon the Almighty. The time of trouble is soon upon us.

If we're engaged in the Lord's work, our own lives will not concern us.

If we're not working for the Lord, a gun will not make our lives right.

I tend to agree with this....our dependance shifts from one thing to another with different consequences. Financially, we are encouraged not to put all our eggs in one basket, but rather to have a basket that will continue to grow in good times as well as bad times. Is there a lesson in there for the practicalities in life? And of all the dependances that are available to us, can we not be a bit more creative in figureing out how to defend /avoid the violance that creeps into our lives...?

A friend of mine once said, a person can never be made into a Christian....however, a Christain can be made into any thing that will solve the Lord's will....

Is it ever the Lord's will to kill someone? I don't think so...Is it ever the Lord's will for another to kill lots of the LOrd's children? I don't think so either....

[Woody]

Quote:

Good...I will feel safe with you when we go for that walk that you've promised...And I promise not to talk politics...anytime during your visit!!!

C/A romance here?

[Naomi]

[ don't worry you are safe ....

Good...I will feel safe with you when we go for that walk that you've promised...And I promise not to talk politics...anytime during your visit!!!

Oh gee ... did I promise a walk? ... oh, perhaps I did if you don't talk politics ... and I have a bunch of witnesses that you will not talk politics ...

[lazarus]

[ don't worry you are safe ....

HEY....wait a minute.... she said that to me.

Naomi, If you go for a walk with NEIL D I would recommend that you keep your main weapon loaded with some spare, high capacity mags in your purse and a back-up strapped to your leg.

[LifeHiscost]

Does this rule out any form of civil protest?

Just asking...

Graeme

[jasd]

>>pastors talking like soldiers<<

Re: the good Lutheran Pastor John Peter Gabriel Muhlenberg, Virginia

“(Muhlenberg) was a pastor of a church at Woodstock, Virginia, at the opening of hostilities. When the news of Bunker Hill reached Virginia, he reminded his congregation that there was a time to preach and a time to pray; as for him, the time to preach was past. "It is now," he cried, "the time to fight"; and throwing off his vestments he stood forth in the garb of a Virginia colonel. His brother having remonstrated with him for his enlistment, he wrote: "You may say that as a clergyman nothing can excuse my conduct. I am a clergyman, it is true, but I am a member of society as well as the poorest layman, and my liberty is as dear to me as any man. I am called by my country to its defence. The cause is just and noble. Were I a Bishop.....I should obey without hesitation; and as far am I from thinking that I am wrong, I am convinced it is my duty so to do - a duty I owe to my God and my Country." In February, 1777, John Muhlenberg became a brigadier-general in the Continental Army; in September 1783, he was a breveted major-general. He took part in the battles of Brandywine, Germantown, and Monmouth; at Yorktown he commanded the first brigade. He was a member of the Virginia Convention of 1776; later he was vice-president of the supreme-executive council of Pennsylvania and he represented that state both in the House and in the Senate of the United States. –Nationalism and Religion in America, Humphrey; 1924, 1966; pp. 114-115” [ed.jasd]

Re the good Baptist Colonel Joab Houghton, New Jersey

“Colonel Houghton was in the Hopewell Baptist Meeting-house, at worship, when he received the first information of Concord and Lexington, and of the retreat of the British to Boston with such heavy loss. His great-grandson gives the following eloquent description of the way he treated the tidings: "Stilling the breathless messenger he sat quietly through the services, and when they were ended, he passed out, and mounting the great stone block in front of the meeting-house he beckoned to the people to stop. Men and women paused to hear, curious to know what so unusual a sequel to the service of the day could mean. At the first words a silence, stern as death, fell over all. The Sabbath quiet of the hour and of the place was deepened into a terrible solemnity. He told them all the story of the cowardly murder at Lexington by the royal troops; the heroic vengeance following hard upon it; the retreat of Percy; the gathering of the children of the Pilgrims round the beleaguered hills of Boston; then pausing, and looking over the silent throng, he said slowly : `Men of New Jersey, the red coats are murdering our brethren of New England! Who follows me to Boston?' and every man of that audience stepped out into line, and answered `I !' There was not a coward or a traitor in old Hopewell Baptist Meeting-house that day." -Baptists and the American Revolution, Cathcart; 1876 rev. 1976; p. 56-57” [ed.jasd]

It is not enough that the Xtian read Holy Writ, but it as necessary that he lives Holy Writ…:

Eccl 3:8 A time to love, and a time to hate; a time of war, and a time of peace.

Ps 18:34 He teacheth my hands to war, so that a bow of steel (more’n likely bronze) is broken by mine arms. (ed.jasd)

Ain not David put forward as a type of Jesus Christ?

2 Sam 7:10 Moreover I will appoint a place for my people Israel, and will plant them, that they may dwell in a place of their own, and move no more; neither shall the children of wickedness afflict them any more, as beforetime,

The above is Gd speaking to David via Nathan… which place, the Sephardim Jew says is – America.

Heb 12:16 Lest there [be] any fornicator, or profane person, as Esau, who for one morsel of meat sold his birthright.

One may gather from the above that one ought not only stand against the evil of tyranny no matter the direction from which it comes, but more importantly, respect and sustain one’s birthright, which in this case is - America.

“The King's governor in the Colonies remarked that it was the "Black Robed Regiment" (ain not be talkin’ here ‘bout Jesuits…) that instigated the people's resistance to the Crown. How is it that so many pastors in our day, when the evil promoted by government is so much greater than that the founders faced, are unwilling to preach the Law to the oppressor and liberty to the people?

Preachers who refused to be licensed by the Crown in the Colonies were jailed, beaten, and occasionally killed for their faithfulness. Today the vast majority of churches in America have taken a license to preach (the 501-c3 tax exemption) from the government. Preachers today have swallowed a theology that denies that Christ is King over ALL creation, including government, and instead declare that Satan is the ruler of this world. They have bent the knee to the Beast, and unless they repent, will receive the due reward for their apostasy.” [ed.jasd]

Just sayin’... that Pastors are not exempt from Gdly or Civil Duty.

[Neil D]

Quote:

Good...I will feel safe with you when we go for that walk that you've promised...And I promise not to talk politics...anytime during your visit!!!

C/A romance here?

My appologies, Redwood...I carried one converstation from one board to another...I am in violation of internet etiquette rules...my appologies to all....

...he said boastingly to another single male...

[Kountzer]

There is a strong interior motivation for self defense.

Although I couldn't support legislated gun control, as believers we need to cultivate a stronger faith.

Only this will set us on the road to eternity. Either God is Omniscient with legions of angels at His command, or He is a myth. Jesus didn't carry a side arm. Peter's swordmanship was rebuked and the ear re-attached.

I fear the insurance of a Glock lessens my dependence upon the Almighty. The time of trouble is soon upon us.

If we're engaged in the Lord's work, our own lives will not concern us.

If we're not working for the Lord, a gun will not make our lives right.

It's possible that many Americans need guns for self-defence.

The only exception may be those who follow Christ.

Well said.

[Kountzer]

Originally Posted By: Gordon1

It's possible that many Americans need guns for self-defence.

The only exception may be those who follow Christ.

I'm assuming you won't call the police if an armed assailant enters your house.

Having a gun at home, and carrying one as a concealed weapon are two different things.

[lazarus]

Quote:

Having a gun at home, and carrying one as a concealed weapon are two different things.

Sure, but I think G1 would not be in favor of either one. What say you?

[Dottie]

let me say, I don't have a gun, mainly because I don't think I could aim and shoot another person.

But-- To have a "gun at home" where it might not be readily available, as opposed to a gun on one's person, seems to be useless in an emergency.