Is the law eternal?

[Robert]

It will be seen that the glory shining in the face of Jesus is the glory of self-sacrificing love. In the light from Calvary it will be seen that the law of self-renouncing love is the law of life for earth and heaven; that the love which "seeketh not her own" has its source in the heart of God; and that in the meek and lowly One is manifested the character of Him who dwelleth in the light which no man can approach unto. [DA 20]

[Gerr]

KJV 1900 | ‎Mal 3:6 For I am the LORD, I change not

[Robert]

KJV 1900 | ‎Mal 3:6 For I am the LORD, I change not

Show me that the law existed before sin entered the world!

[Robert]

Now, before you think I have lost my mind, I am not inferring that no form of righteousness existed before the giving of the law at Mount Sinai. "God is love" states the Bible. Ellen White describes that love as "the law of self-renouncing love ...that the love which 'seeketh not her own'". That love, i.e., agape, has existed as long as God has existed and according to the Bible He has no end and no beginning. So agape is eternal.

[Q.E.D.]

"8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world."(Rev 13:8)

Q.E.D.

[Robert]

What if God had commanded the angels not to commit adultery? They would have said, "we can't because we aren't sexual beings. We do not marry....We can't procreate or experience sexual intimacy."

So immediately the 7th commandment cannot apply. The same with the 5th commandment. And the part about "you shall not covet your neighbor's wife" doesn't apply either.

So there are about 2.5 commandments, out of the six, that do not apply to heavenly beings. That's 2.5/6 or 42% of the law that has no meaning for angels or being that do not procreate.

So again, the law was given to meet mankind in his fallen condition. It is not permanent. It has a job, and when sin and sinner are destroyed it's job is finished.

However, agape will remain in the hearts of all the redeemed after the law comes to end.....

[Robert]

"8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world."(Rev 13:8)

Q.E.D.

This is before translation....This is before the earth passes away....

[Robert]

....while love to God was supreme, love for one another was confiding and unselfish. There was no note of discord to mar the celestial harmonies. But a change came over this happy state. There was one who perverted the freedom that God had granted to His creatures. Sin originated with him who, next to Christ, had been most honored of God and was highest in power and glory among the inhabitants of heaven. Lucifer, "son of the morning," was first of the covering cherubs, holy and undefiled. He stood in the presence of the great Creator, and the ceaseless beams of glory enshrouding the eternal God rested upon him. "Thus saith the Lord God; Thou sealest up the sum, full of wisdom, and perfect in beauty. Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God; every precious stone was thy covering. . . . Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire. Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee." Ezekiel 28:12-15. Little by little Lucifer came to indulge the desire for self-exaltation....

When we think of laws we think of rules written down. Nothing like that ever existed in heaven. All God's creation was in harmony with God's agape love - a love that seeks not its own.

Notice that sin originated in Lucifer. That sin was iniquity. No where in the Ten Commandments does it say, "You shall not be bent to self".

However, the essence of the law, "you shall love your neighbor as yourself" does speak out against our love of self. This principle points out that our bent to self is sin and that agape is the law for heaven and earth. That principle is eternal!

[Q.E.D.]

The fall of man filled all heaven with sorrow. The world that God had made was blighted with the curse of sin and inhabited by beings doomed to misery and death. There appeared no escape for those who had transgressed the law. Angels ceased their songs of praise. Throughout the heavenly courts there was mourning for the ruin that sin had wrought. {PP 63.1}

The Son of God, heaven's glorious Commander, was touched with pity for the fallen race. His heart was moved with infinite compassion as the woes of the lost world rose up before Him. But divine love had conceived a plan whereby man might be redeemed. The broken law of God demanded the life of the sinner. In all the universe there was but one who could, in behalf of man, satisfy its claims. Since the divine law is as sacred as God Himself, only one equal with God could make atonement for its transgression. None but Christ could redeem fallen man from the curse of the law and bring him again into harmony with Heaven. Christ would take upon Himself the guilt and shame of sin--sin so offensive to a holy God that it must separate the Father and His Son. Christ would reach to the depths of misery to rescue the ruined race. {PP 63.2}

Before the Father He pleaded in the sinner's behalf, while the host of heaven awaited the result with an intensity of interest that words cannot express. Long continued was that mysterious communing--"the counsel of peace" (Zechariah 6:13) for the fallen sons of men. The plan of salvation had been laid before the creation of the earth; for Christ is "the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world" (Revelation 13:8); yet it was a struggle, even with the King of the universe, to yield up His Son to die for the guilty race. But "God so loved the world, that He gave His only-begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in Him should not perish, but have everlasting life." John 3:16. Oh, the mystery of redemption! the love of God for a world that did not love Him! Who can know the depths of that love which "passeth knowledge"? Through endless ages immortal minds, seeking to comprehend the mystery of that incomprehensible love, will wonder and adore. {Patriarchs and Prophets, Page 63.3}

Q.E.D.

[Robert]

There appeared no escape for those who had transgressed the law. Q.E.D.

Sorry, show me using your Bible where God posted His law? Was it hanging on the tree of good and evil? Was it hanging on the necks of Adam and Eve? If not, where....I do not see the law until Sinai.

The law that had been transgressed was "the law of self-renouncing love". That law didn't exist on stone or paper....It existed in the being of Adam and Eve.

"From eternal ages it was God's purpose that every created being, from the bright and holy seraph to man, should be a temple for the indwelling of the Creator. Because of sin (iniquity), humanity ceased to be a temple for God. Darkened and defiled by evil, the heart of man no longer revealed the glory of the divine One."

.... the glory shining in the face of Jesus is the glory of self-sacrificing love. ....that the love which "seeketh not her own" ....

[Q.E.D.]

Sorry, show me using your Bible where God posted His law? Was it hanging on the tree of good and evil? Was it hanging on the necks of Adam and Eve? If not, where....I do not see the law until Sinai.

The Law of God was written in the heart of Adam and Eve in the same way it is written in heart of all the redeemed of all ages.

"33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people"(Jer 31:33)

"3 Forasmuch as ye are manifestly declared to be the epistle of Christ ministered by us, written not with ink, but with the Spirit of the living God; not in tables of stone, but in fleshy tables of the heart."(2 Cor 3:3)

The Law of God is eternal. Sin is the "transgression of the law."

"15 Because the law worketh wrath: for where no law is, there is no transgression."(Rom 4:15)

"4 ¶ Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law."(1 John 3:4)

The character of sin, and God's treatment of sin, are first unfolded to us in the transgression of Adam. Sin is the transgression of the law, and when Adam and Eve sinned, they opened the floodgates of woe upon our world. The promise given to Adam that the seed of the woman should bruise the serpent's head, and that it should bruise his heel, was the first proclamation of the Gospel. But while a way was provided for the forgiveness of sin, yet in no way did this provision lessen its hateful character in the sight of God, or do away with the dire consequences that would fall upon impenitent transgressors. Christ was the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world, and men could always say, "Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world." {Signs of the Times, February 13, 1896 par. 3}

[Robert]

.... not in tables of stone, but in fleshy tables of the heart.

So God's chisels away rules in our minds/hearts?

Our only definition of sin is that given in the word of God; it is "the transgression of the law;" it is the outworking of a principle at war with the great law of love (agape) which is the foundation of the divine government.

[Q.E.D.]

Show me that the law existed before sin entered the world!

"8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world."(Rev 13:8)

Q.E.D.

[Q.E.D.]

Originally Posted By: Q.E.D.

.... not in tables of stone, but in fleshy tables of the heart.

So God's chisels away rules in our minds/hearts?

No. God uses the Holy Spirit not chisels.

Q.E.D.

[Robert]

"8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world."(Rev 13:8)

Q.E.D.

That doesn't prove the existence of the Ten Commandments. It proves the existence of agape. Lucifer invented iniquity - our love of self - our bent to self. That's the essence of all sin just as agape is the essence or principle behind all righteousness.

[Robert]

No. God uses the Holy Spirit not chisels.

Q.E.D.

And what does the Holy Spirit put in our minds - rules?

[Q.E.D.]

What if God had commanded the angels not to commit adultery?

The angels commited adultery when the chose to follow Satan in rebellion.

Q.E.D.

[Robert]

Originally Posted By: Robert

What if God had commanded the angels not to commit adultery?

The angels commited adultery when the chose to follow Satan in rebellion.

Q.E.D.

Baloney! And you know it!

[Q.E.D.]

And what does the Holy Spirit put in our minds - rules?

"33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people"(Jer 31:33)

[Robert]

I will put my law in their inward parts,....

What law? The principle of agape? Yes..rules? no!

[Q.E.D.]

The angels commited adultery when the chose to follow Satan in rebellion.

Q.E.D.

[Q.E.D.]

"8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world."(Rev 13:8)

Q.E.D.

[Q.E.D.]

I will put my law in their inward parts,....

[Robert]

Makes complete sense to me.

Q.E.D.

Angles are sexless....They have no sexual desires. They are not sexual beings. The Ten commandments were aimed at humans, after the fall. Hence the law didn't exist in heaven.

[Q.E.D.]

Gotta get din din now. Someone else will have to play with you Robert.

Q.E.D.