Is the law eternal?

[Robert]

Quote:

The 10 Commandments.

Q.E.D.

No, those are rules..

[Gibs]

Will post a few things then I'm dropping out of this subject.

God is love.” His nature, His law, is love. It ever has been; it ever will be. “The high and lofty One that inhabiteth eternity,” whose “ways are everlasting,” changeth not. With Him “is no variableness, neither shadow of turning.” Isaiah 57:15; Habakkuk 3:6; James 1:17. {CTr 7.2}

Christ came to our world to represent the character of God as it is represented in His holy law, for His law is a transcript of His character. Christ was both the law and the gospel. . . . {CTr 339.2}

And He does not change.

"Till heaven and earth pass," said Jesus, "one jot or one tittle shall in nowise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled." The sun shining in the heavens, the solid earth upon which you dwell, are God's witnesses that His law is changeless and eternal. Though they may pass away, the divine precepts shall endure. "It is easier for heaven and earth to pass, than one tittle of the law to fail." Luke 16:17. The system of types that pointed to Jesus as the Lamb of God was to be abolished at His death; but the precepts of the Decalogue are as immutable as the throne of God. {DA 308.3}

Adam was informed that an angel's life could not pay the debt. The law of Jehovah, the foundation of His government in heaven and upon earth, was as sacred as God Himself; and for this reason the life of an angel could not be accepted of God as a sacrifice for its transgression. His law is of more importance in His sight than the holy angels around His throne. The Father could not abolish or change one precept of His law to meet man in his fallen condition. But the Son of God, who had in unison with the Father created man, could make an atonement for man acceptable to God, by giving His life a sacrifice and bearing the wrath of His Father. Angels informed Adam that, as his transgression had brought death and wretchedness, life and immortality would be brought to light through the sacrifice of Jesus Christ. {SR 48.1}

That eternal law has ever been in the Heavenly Temple and will for all eternity, He even displays it to John to give to us what He wanted us to see.

Re 11:19 And the temple of God was opened in heaven, and there was seen in his temple the ark of his testament: and there were lightnings, and voices, and thunderings, and an earthquake, and great hail.

God's Eternal Law

The law of God existed before man was created. The angels were governed by it. Satan fell because he transgressed the principles of God's government. After Adam and Eve were created, God made known to them His law. It was not then written, but was rehearsed to them by Jehovah. {SR 145.1}

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[Q.E.D.]

Makes complete sense to me.

Q.E.D.

[Q.E.D.]

Quote:

The 10 Commandments.

Q.E.D.

No, those are rules..

I thought the Bible said "Commandments".

[Gibs]

It is written in other books that the watchers mated with women and produced giants of men called Nephilim. Some mention in the Bible but not enough to make out anything.

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[Q.E.D.]

Will post a few things then I'm dropping out of this subject.

God is love.” His nature, His law, is love. It ever has been; it ever will be. “The high and lofty One that inhabiteth eternity,” whose “ways are everlasting,” changeth not. With Him “is no variableness, neither shadow of turning.” Isaiah 57:15; Habakkuk 3:6; James 1:17. {CTr 7.2}

Christ came to our world to represent the character of God as it is represented in His holy law, for His law is a transcript of His character. Christ was both the law and the gospel. . . . {CTr 339.2}

And He does not change.

"Till heaven and earth pass," said Jesus, "one jot or one tittle shall in nowise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled." The sun shining in the heavens, the solid earth upon which you dwell, are God's witnesses that His law is changeless and eternal. Though they may pass away, the divine precepts shall endure. "It is easier for heaven and earth to pass, than one tittle of the law to fail." Luke 16:17. The system of types that pointed to Jesus as the Lamb of God was to be abolished at His death; but the precepts of the Decalogue are as immutable as the throne of God. {DA 308.3}

Adam was informed that an angel's life could not pay the debt. The law of Jehovah, the foundation of His government in heaven and upon earth, was as sacred as God Himself; and for this reason the life of an angel could not be accepted of God as a sacrifice for its transgression. His law is of more importance in His sight than the holy angels around His throne. The Father could not abolish or change one precept of His law to meet man in his fallen condition. But the Son of God, who had in unison with the Father created man, could make an atonement for man acceptable to God, by giving His life a sacrifice and bearing the wrath of His Father. Angels informed Adam that, as his transgression had brought death and wretchedness, life and immortality would be brought to light through the sacrifice of Jesus Christ. {SR 48.1}

That eternal law has ever been in the Heavenly Temple and will for all eternity, He even displays it to John to give to us what He wanted us to see.

Re 11:19 And the temple of God was opened in heaven, and there was seen in his temple the ark of his testament: and there were lightnings, and voices, and thunderings, and an earthquake, and great hail.

God's Eternal Law

The law of God existed before man was created. The angels were governed by it. Satan fell because he transgressed the principles of God's government. After Adam and Eve were created, God made known to them His law. It was not then written, but was rehearsed to them by Jehovah. {SR 145.1}

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

Q.E.D.

[Robert]

"Till heaven and earth pass," said Jesus, "one jot or one tittle shall in nowise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled."

Yes, when the earth passes away all will be fulfilled and the law, which was temporary, will pass too....

[Robert]

Those pesky Angles always cause trouble!

yes, they illustrate that no Ten Commandments existed in heaven. In fact the Sabbath didn't exist until creation.

[Robert]

The law of God existed before man was created.

[Robert]

After Adam and Eve were created, God made known to them His law. It was not then written, but was rehearsed to them by Jehovah. {SR 145.1}

You know, Ellen White states a lot accurate things, but sometimes she just gets it wrong (or I don't understand her writing style). If not then she is infallible. So I have to go with the Bible. What does the Bible state because she says "The Bible and the Bible alone, is our creed".

Gen 1:26 Then God said, "Let us make man in our image, in our likeness,....27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God he created him; male and female he created them.

Well, we know that God didn't create "gods"! Therefore God's image refers to selfless love. Adam and Eve, by creation, fully reflected the self-emptying love of their creator.

"Man was originally endowed with noble powers and a well-balanced mind. He was perfect in his being, and in harmony with God. His thoughts were pure, his aims holy. But through disobedience, his powers were perverted, and selfishness took the place of love (agape)."

Keep in mind Adam and Eve were in harmony with God's agape love. They were in His image and likeness. They didn't need rules, for they had agape in their very being.

At the fall "selfishness took the place of love". It was agape, written in the heart & mind, that made Adam & Eve in God's image. There was no need to give them rules....

The disobedience was to a specific command, not a commandment from the law. That command was, "You are free to eat from any tree in the garden; but you must not eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, for when you eat of it you will surely die."

[Gerr]

Originally Posted By: Gerry Cabalo

KJV 1900 | ‎Mal 3:6 For I am the LORD, I change not

Show me that the law existed before sin entered the world!

The law is a reflection of God's character. Therefore, the law is as old as God himself!!!

[Robert]

The law is a reflection of God's character. Therefore, the law is as old as God himself!!!

Most of the law doesn't apply to heavenly beings, Gerry. You didn't have to tell an angel not to kill. The angel wouldn't understand that concept - it would be foreign to it's mind. Death was unknown in heaven. You wouldn't have to tell an angel not to steal because in heaven there was no ownership. Like the early church, they had all things in common. And we know you didn't need to tell an angel not to commit adultery. It would be like telling me not to fly.

I mean, folks, we have to think outside the box of tradition. Let go of your preconceived ideas and let God guide!

[Robert]

View video

[Q.E.D.]

"In the temple in heaven, the dwelling place of God, His throne is established in righteousness and judgment. In the most holy place is His law, the great rule of right by which all mankind are tested. The ark that enshrines the tables of the law is covered with the mercy seat, before which Christ pleads His blood in the sinner's behalf. "(Great Controversy 1911, page 415)

Q.E.D.

[Robert]

"In the temple in heaven, the dwelling place of God, His throne is established in righteousness and judgment. In the most holy place is His law, the great rule of right by which all mankind are tested. The ark that enshrines the tables of the law is covered with the mercy seat, before which Christ pleads His blood in the sinner's behalf. "(Great Controversy 1911, page 415)

Q.E.D.

Okay...but that doesn't prove that it existed before the world was made.

[Q.E.D.]

"The ark in the tabernacle on earth contained the two tables of stone, upon which were inscribed the precepts of the law of God. The ark was merely a receptacle for the tables of the law, and the presence of these divine precepts gave to it its value and sacredness. When the temple of God was opened in heaven, the ark of His testament was seen. Within the holy of holies, in the sanctuary in heaven, the divine law is sacredly enshrined–the law that was spoken by God Himself amid the thunders of Sinai and written with His own finger on the tables of stone."(Great Controversy 1911, page 433)

Q.E.D.

[Q.E.D.]

"The law of God in the sanctuary in heaven is the great original, of which the precepts inscribed upon the tables of stone and recorded by Moses in the Pentateuch were an unerring transcript. Those who arrived at an understanding of this important point were thus led to see the sacred, unchanging character of the divine law. They saw, as never before, the force of the Saviour's words: "Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law." Matthew 5:18. The law of God, being a revelation of His will, a transcript of His character, must forever endure, "as a faithful witness in heaven." Not one command has been annulled; not a jot or tittle has been changed. Says the psalmist: "Forever, O Lord, Thy word is settled in heaven." "All His commandments are sure. They stand fast for ever and ever." Psalms 119:89; 111:7, 8."(Great Controversy 1911, page 434)

Q.E.D.

[Q.E.D.]

" The seal of God's law is found in the fourth commandment. This only, of all the ten, brings to view both the name and the title of the Lawgiver. It declares Him to be the Creator of the heavens and the earth, and thus shows His claim to reverence and worship above all others. Aside from this precept, there is nothing in the Decalogue to show by whose authority the law is given"(Great Controversy 1911, page 451)

Q.E.D.

[Q.E.D.]

"To the law and to the testimony." While conflicting doctrines and theories abound, the law of God is the one unerring rule by which all opinions, doctrines, and theories are to be tested. Says the prophet: "If they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them." Verse 20." (Great Controversy 1911, page 452)

Q.E.D.

[Q.E.D.]

"Hallowed by the Creator's rest and blessing, the Sabbath was kept by Adam in his innocence in holy Eden; by Adam, fallen yet repentant, when he was driven from his happy estate. It was kept by all the patriarchs, from Abel to righteous Noah, to Abraham, to Jacob. When the chosen people were in bondage in Egypt, many, in the midst of prevailing idolatry, lost their knowledge of God's law; but when the Lord delivered Israel, He proclaimed His law in awful grandeur to the assembled multitude, that they might know His will and fear and obey Him forever."(Great Controversy 1911, page 453)

Q.E.D.

[Gerr]

Originally Posted By: Gerry Cabalo

The law is a reflection of God's character. Therefore, the law is as old as God himself!!!

Most of the law doesn't apply to heavenly beings, Gerry. You didn't have to tell an angel not to kill. The angel wouldn't understand that concept - it would be foreign to it's mind. Death was unknown in heaven. You wouldn't have to tell an angel not to steal because in heaven there was no ownership. Like the early church, they had all things in common. And we know you didn't need to tell an angel not to commit adultery. It would be like telling me not to fly.

I mean, folks, we have to think outside the box of tradition. Let go of your preconceived ideas and let God guide!

When you say the law, you did not specify the 10c! The 10c are adaptations of the two great commandments to this particular planet. If there is marriage in other planets, then the 5th & 7th commandment would also apply.

QED,however, made a point. It could still apply to spiritual adultery & I might add, spiritual parents.

[Robert]

QED,however, made a point. It could still apply to spiritual adultery & I might add, spiritual parents.

You could justify anything, I suppose, but that doesn't make it truth. Here's Jesus on adultery:

Matt 5:27 "You have heard that it was said, 'Do not commit adultery.' 28 But I tell you that anyone who looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery with her in his heart.

In other words you sin when you look lustfully without doing the act.

Here's the thing...if your mind was filled with agape and if you weren't born with a nature that's bent to self, you wouldn't need all those rules, would you? That's my point.

So agape is eternal. God's law, given at Sinai isn't.

[Robert]

"To the law and to the testimony." While conflicting doctrines and theories abound, the law of God is the one unerring rule by which all opinions, doctrines, and theories are to be tested. Says the prophet: "If they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them." Verse 20." (Great Controversy 1911, page 452)

Q.E.D.

Ellen White apparently didn't know that "the law" is referring to the book of the law or the Torah. The Torah isn't the law of God. The law of God is in the Torah.

[Robert]

" The seal of God's law is found in the fourth commandment. This only, of all the ten, brings to view both the name and the title of the Lawgiver. It declares Him to be the Creator of the heavens and the earth, and thus shows His claim to reverence and worship above all others. Aside from this precept, there is nothing in the Decalogue to show by whose authority the law is given"(Great Controversy 1911, page 451)

Q.E.D.

The Sabbath commandment not longer is valid. As soon as Adam fell God went back to work. He stopped resting in His perfect creation because it was ruined by the entrance of sin.

Ellen White had limited light. You need to get your light from the Bible. Cults quote their leader as the final word. Ellen White never wanted a cult following. She always pointed to the Bible as the final word. So it would be nice to get your info from your Bible.

That's it, dust it off and open it up. I'm waiting.

[Robert]

(Great Controversy 1911, page 433)Q.E.D.

"In regard to infallibility, I NEVER claimed it; God ALONE is Infallible." Selected Messages, Book One, pp 415 and 37

Do not think that, because we have a glimmer of the light of God, that we have it all.--Ms. 3, 1889, pp. 1-3. (Morning Talk at Ottawa, Kansas, May 14, 1889.)

The question has been asked me, "Do you think that the Lord has any more light for us as a people?" I answer that He has light that is new to us, and yet it is precious old light that is to shine forth from the Word of truth [the Bible]. We have only the glimmerings of the rays of the light that is yet to come to us. [1SM 401]

We have many lessons to learn, and many, many to unlearn. God and heaven alone are infallible. Those who think that they will never have to give up a cherished view, never have occasion to change an opinion, will be disappointed. [CW 37]