The Laodicean Message; What is it?

[Alchemy]

The Laodicean Message; What is it?

Revelation 3:14-22;

"“And to the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write,

‘These things says the Amen, the Faithful and True Witness, the Beginning of the creation of God: “I know your works, that you are neither cold nor hot. I could wish you were cold or hot. So then, because you are lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will vomit you out of My mouth. Because you say, ‘I am rich, have become wealthy, and have need of nothing’—and do not know that you are wretched, miserable, poor, blind, and naked— I counsel you to buy from Me gold refined in the fire, that you may be rich; and white garments, that you may be clothed, that the shame of your nakedness may not be revealed; and anoint your eyes with eye salve, that you may see. As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten. Therefore be zealous and repent. Behold, I stand at the door and knock. If anyone hears My voice and opens the door, I will come in to him and dine with him, and he with Me. To him who overcomes I will grant to sit with Me on My throne, as I also overcame and sat down with My Father on His throne.

22 “He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches.”’”"

(NKJV)

How important is this message and why?

[Robert]

Because you say, ‘I am rich, have become wealthy, and have need of nothing’—and do not know that you are wretched, miserable, poor, blind, and naked....

\

“The people of God are represented in the message to the Laodiceans as in a position of carnal (which is another word for fleshly) security. They are at ease, believing themselves to be in an exalted condition of spiritual attainment.” [3T 252]

Self-righteousness is not the wedding garment. A failure to follow the clear light of truth is our fearful danger. The message to the Laodicean church reveals our condition as a people. [RH 12-15-04]

Ellen White applies this message to the 7th-day Adventist Church. The problem? Self-righteousness.

Is that bad?

Matt 22:1 Jesus spoke to them again in parables, saying: 2 "The kingdom of heaven is like a king who prepared a wedding banquet for his son. 3 He sent his servants to those who had been invited to the banquet to tell them to come, but they refused to come. 4 "Then he sent some more servants and said, 'Tell those who have been invited that I have prepared my dinner: My oxen and fattened cattle have been butchered, and everything is ready. Come to the wedding banquet.' 5 "But they paid no attention and went off--one to his field, another to his business. 6 The rest seized his servants, mistreated them and killed them. 7 The king was enraged. He sent his army and destroyed those murderers and burned their city. (The destruction of Jerusalem in 70AD) 8 "Then he said to his servants, 'The wedding banquet is ready, but those I invited did not deserve to come. 9 Go to the street corners and invite to the banquet anyone you find.' (The invitation to the Gentiles) 10 So the servants went out into the streets and gathered all the people they could find, both good and bad, and the wedding hall was filled with guests. 11 "But when the king came in to see the guests, he noticed a man there who was not wearing wedding garment. 12 'Friend,' he asked, 'how did you get in here without wedding garment?' The man was speechless. 13 "Then the king told the attendants, 'Tie him hand and foot, and throw him outside, into the darkness, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.' 14 "For many are invited, but few are chosen."

[Gibs]

Luke warm is no better than being cold, as being lukewarm one is rich and need of nothing and that is the great problem today. He says they will be spewed out. Yes there may be more hope if they were cold.

None not one need be Laodicean, but first it must be realized all is not in your repertoire, catalog, or brain maybe to please Him.

It is a sad state of being for sure, is the church still there as a great whole? Main thing is are we?

Never be afraid to examine where one stands, can your stance stand investigation of the Word of God and pass the test?

It is high time to get the spiritual house in order, things are culminating very fast now, not a lot of time to mess around and not get serious.

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[Alchemy]

But, is it a bad thing to be Laodicean?

My understanding of the meaning of Laodicean is this;

"Laodicea = "justice of the people""

I got this definition from Blueletterbible.org.

So, it would seem to me that being Laodicean is something to be desired, something God desires of His people.

So, where have we gone wrong? I sometimes think we have not lived up to being the Laodicean Church God intended.

[Gibs]

Laodicea was a people of a place then and He says to them,

Re 3:15 I know thy works, that thou art neither cold nor hot: I would thou wert cold or hot.

Re 3:16 So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth.

Re 3:17 Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked:

You see they think they have all they need but are in great need, "and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked:"

That is the condition of the church today, but it won't see it, He declares they are,-- "and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked:" They cannot and will not see as they have become blind. So He councils them,

Re 3:18 I counsel thee to buy of me gold tried in the fire, that thou mayest be rich; and white raiment, that thou mayest be clothed, and that the shame of thy nakedness do not appear; and anoint thine eyes with eyesalve, that thou mayest see.

Re 3:19 As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten: be zealous therefore, and repent.

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[Alchemy]

I am aware that all these cities existed at the time John wrote all this. I also understand that Laodicea rebuilt their city after an earthquake I think without the help of the government.

I was trying to be sure we know what Laodicea is supposed to be.

[JoeMo]

May I offer an alternative definition of the "hot", "cold", and "lukewarm" discussed in the Laodicean message?

Those of you who are veterans on here know that many discussions evolve into 'are we saved by works or grace"? I would propose that, in this day and age, that that is the main discussion in Christianity - salvation by "works" (strict adherence to the Law) or grace (unmerited favor and power from Jesus and the Holy Spirit). Many people and denominations have settled upon a combination of the two - "Keep the law as well as you can; and Jesus' grace will make up for the rest".

I would propose that one application of the Laodicean Message is a warning from Jesus not to mix works (cold) and grace (hot) - thus ending up lukewarm. When we look at the words of Jesus, He is rarely judgemental of those who chose to enter into relationship with Him (i.e., His friends). He did not condemn the woman caught in adultery; he readily forgave Peter for denying Him, he readily forgave the woman who washed His feet with her tears. The only people whom He consistently criticized were those who were trying to earn their salvation (Pharisees). No matter what they did, it wasn't quite good enough. My take on this is that Jesus respects our free will enough to give us a choice on the basis for our Judgement - either through His righteousness conferred upon us through our intimate "love" relationship with Him and trust in His grace, or through a "contractual" relationship based on our PERFECT obedience to the Law. When He says He would rather us be hot (relying solely on His grace) or cold (relying solely on obedience), but not lukewarm (mixing the two), He's telling us we can't have it both ways.

Lest someone misunderstand, I am not throwing out the law. Grace is not only forgiveness of sin, it is the power to overcome sin. In that sense, obedience is the RESULT of our salvation; not the PREREQUISITE for salvation.

We are saved by either all grace or all law, folks - not a mixture of the two. We can't have it both ways! Does that make sense?

[Gibs]

It is by His Grace a way was made that we might be redeemed. By His wonderful Grace and love He forgives all who will repent coming to Him desiring to be broken of sin.

We come falling and broken on Him because of ourselves we cannot meet the standard. We have been so weakened by the growth of sin and it's alurements to us we of ourselves are helpless. But He has made it so He will dwell within and now we have more than an evener. This is what the Apostle is talking about in this statement.

Php 4:13 I can do all things through Christ which strengtheneth me.

He came to this world as one of us, taking the same power He will give to us to show us it could be done with it. Yes overcome Satan and the world. Yes He within is the same power.

But we have one better, realize this, Satan and his can see that Jesus dwells within and knows you will not cast Him out for anything he can throw and so is a defeated foe.

This is where it is. It is not a matter of straining to keep the law, it is now in your heart and is your love to do. You have become a free man within the Will of Jesus Christ and His Father. You now rest in His arms and have a peace and tranquility you never had before. Give it up, no for nothing in this world has anything to compare.

Fear of what is coming upon the world is banished. You know you are one of His precious Jewels and He will take care of you and what comes is for your best.

He will not lose one of His faithful ones who truly have faith that he is their EVENER, OR ENABLER.

As He overcame the Devil and sin and the world we are enabled!

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[Robert]

Re 3:19 As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten: be zealous therefore, and repent.

Repent of what, Gibs?

[Gibs]

Originally Posted By: Gibs

Re 3:19 As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten: be zealous therefore, and repent.

Repent of what, Gibs?

Ac 8:22 Repent therefore of this thy wickedness, and pray God, if perhaps the thought of thine heart may be forgiven thee.

Ac 17:30 And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent:

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[Alchemy]

Originally Posted By: Gibs

Re 3:19 As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten: be zealous therefore, and repent.

Repent of what, Gibs?

I believe that is an excellent question. What is there to repent about? It depends on your understanding of sin and the plan of salvation.

For instance; One of the adjectives of God's people of Laodicea is "wretched". Well, the Greek word there for wretched is only used twice in all the New Testament. The other place is in Romans 7:24. "O wretched man that I am".

I don't believe Romans chapter 7 is talking about righteousness by faith, but righteousness by works. I believe Romans 7 is talking about vainly struggling to do it yourself.

So, I would think this problem would exist in the Laodicean Church and need to be repented of.

[Robert]

Ac 8:22 Repent therefore of this thy wickedness, and pray God, if perhaps the thought of thine heart may be forgiven thee.

That's not the context of Rev chapter 3! Come on Gibs!

[Gibs]

quote=Robert]

Re 3:19 As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten: be zealous therefore, and repent.

Repent of what, Gibs?

[Robert]

No, prove your answer using the context of Rev chapter 3. I'm not interested in your conjecture. I want facts....Can you do it?

[Gibs]

Robert, I do not know what you want to know, state your question and if it isn't of the title of this thead forget it.

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[hch]

The Laodicean Message; What is it?

Revelation 3:14-22;

"“And to the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write,

‘These things says the Amen, the Faithful and True Witness, the Beginning of the creation of God: “I know your works, that you are neither cold nor hot [...] you say, ‘I am rich, have become wealthy, and have need of nothing’[...]"

(NKJV)

How important is this message and why?

Matthew 12:37 "For by thy words thou shalt be justified, and by thy words thou shalt be condemned."

What is the condemnation of those that claim ‘I am rich, have become wealthy, and have need of nothing’

Revelation 6:15 "And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains;

16 And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:

17 For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?

In this context, the Laodicean message is very important.

[JoeMo]

"Because you say, ‘I am rich, have become wealthy, and have need of nothing’—and do not know that you are wretched, miserable, poor, blind, and naked— I counsel you to buy from Me gold refined in the fire, that you may be rich; and white garments, that you may be clothed, that the shame of your nakedness may not be revealed; and anoint your eyes with eye salve, that you may see. As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten. Therefore be zealous and repent. Behold, I stand at the door and knock. If anyone hears My voice and opens the door, I will come in to him and dine with him, and he with Me."

We succumb to the illusion that we are "rich, have become wealthy, and have need of nothing" when we deceptively believe that we are doing all the works required to get us into heaven; and because of that, Jesus "owes" us heaven. We forget that all of our own righteousness is as filthy rags - no matter how "good" we are. Repenting is changing the way we think - taking our trust off of our own "goodness" and placing it in Jesus' goodness. HE ALONE is the gold refined by fire; only HIS garments are white as snow; only HE has the salve that will anoint our eyes to see His Kingdom. When we dine with Him - when He breaks the bread - we will recognize Him as the only Way, Truth, and Life!

Praise Jesus!

JoeMo

[Robert]

We succumb to the illusion that we are "rich, have become wealthy, and have need of nothing" when we deceptively believe that we are doing all the works required to get us into heaven;

Bingo!

So Jesus is asking us to repent from our view of ourselves. Hence, repent from our self-righteousness.

[Gibs]

Works never will get any into Heaven and I don't see that promoted here by me or anyone else. The law is a schoolmaster and if one truly has the love of God with all the heart and soul it is in the heart and is the love of that one to do. Question is, do I have that love, we all should ask ourselves?

That one that truly has this love is not under the law but is of the law. Now when Satan pulls your heart strings off balance and you sin, you are now under the law again, it condemns you as His Spirit let's you know. He who hates the law is like Satan, he did not see that it was just and good. It is the law of Love of our wonderful God and Saviour.

The law cannot be condemned, it is there to condemn of sin in the lawbreaker. All will be judged by it.

Salvation was no harder for any from Adam on to Christ than it is afterward. All knew of the Redeemer to come. They looked foward in faith and now we must look back in faith. The heart of God has not been softened or hardened requiring more from some than from others from the beginning.

Mal 3:6 For I am the LORD, I change not; therefore ye sons of Jacob are not consumed.

Heb 13:8 Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever.

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[JoeMo]

I'm not going to get off-topic and turn this thread into another acrimonious saved by law vs. saved by grace debate that always goes nowhere. Topic is "What is the Laodicean Message". I will go to "Love vs. Law" or "What is Sin?" threads if I want to get frustrated about the same old stuff using the same scripture references that I've been seeing (and using) for several months. The grace vs. law debate will not be solved until Jesus comes. IMO, it will be the main reason for the Shaking. Jesus' message for Laodicea is "Please me by perfectly keeping My Father's law, or trust My sacrifice and grace to be the all sufficient sacrifice made for you to obtain eternal life. Don't mix them!"

[Gibs]

Really it is a pretty strong rebuke if we read it careful of His council to them back yon and now to us,

Re 3:17 Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked:

Re 3:18 I counsel thee to buy of me gold tried in the fire, that thou mayest be rich; and white raiment, that thou mayest be clothed, and that the shame of thy nakedness do not appear; and anoint thine eyes with eyesalve, that thou mayest see.

Re 3:19 As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten: be zealous therefore, and repent.

Repent! Is resolve to change and sorrow for the past way.

Then He ends it saying this,

Re 3:21 To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne.

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[JoeMo]

Hey Gibs,

Taking the book of Revelation in full context, our so-called "riches" (which we have earned) will turn to dust; and our so-called "goods" (which we have stred away out of our surplus of good deeds) will vanish - and then we will know that we are wretched and poor and miserable; and that we have been blind of our need of Jesus all along - that our "riches" and "goods" don't mean diddley squat. We need to repent (change our minds) and rely wholly on Jesus now; so that when the time somes, our faith miscles are strong enough to take us through the time of trouble; and we can truly overcome by the blood of the Lamb right through until the Kingdom is established here on earth.

[Gail]

And the thing we need most of all from Jesus is love. If we don't have that, none of the other stuff matters.

[Gibs]

JoeMo, the verse is speaking of the spiritual here, ", I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked:"

In other words they are lacking spiritually and no doubt do not have true love or they might be "HOT".

And Gail, right, if we have love we no doubt would not be in a lukewarm condition. I find it is love that begets what is needed to please Him and not go astray.

The message is for us who are the last church age of the seven. You know we need to see it is us, and we also know it is pretty hard to see when He tells us we are "blind".

It might not hurt to reckon ourselves to this verse,

Jer 5:21 Hear now this, O foolish people, and without understanding; which have eyes, and see not; which have ears, and hear not:

Then Jesus tells us this,

Re 3:18 I counsel thee to buy of me gold tried in the fire, that thou mayest be rich; and white raiment, that thou mayest be clothed, and that the shame of thy nakedness do not appear; and anoint thine eyes with eyesalve, that thou mayest see.

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[Robert]

Re 3:18 I counsel thee to buy of me gold tried in the fire, that thou mayest be rich (faith); and white raiment (the righteousness of Christ), that thou mayest be clothed, and that the shame of thy nakedness do not appear; and anoint thine eyes with eyesalve, that thou mayest see (see that you aren't righteous).