The Laodicean Message; What is it?

[Robert]

In other words they are lacking spiritually....

Gibs, are you lacking spiritually?

Keep in mind that this group believes that they are in an exalted, spiritual state.

What greater deception can come upon human minds than a confidence that they are right when they are all wrong! The message of the True Witness finds the people of God in a sad deception, yet honest in that deception. They know not that their condition is deplorable in the sight of God. While those addressed are flattering themselves that they are in an exalted spiritual condition, the message of the True Witness breaks their security by the startling denunciation of their true condition of spiritual blindness, poverty, and wretchedness. The testimony, so cutting and severe, cannot be a mistake, for it is the True Witness who speaks, and His testimony must be correct. (Testimonies for the Church, Vol. 3, p. 252-253).

[Robert]

"I entreat you, brethren, be not like the Pharisees, who were blinded with spiritual pride, self-righteousness, and self-sufficiency, and who because of this were forsaken of God. For years I have been receiving instructions and warnings that this was the danger to our people." The Ellen G. White 1888 Materials, p. 166.

[Gibs]

I don't think the Laodiceans had any trouble understanding the message to them back yon but it appears we who are in the Lodicean time frame today do not to a great extent.

In the least it appears there is not much agreeance. I know I don't hear none preach it as it was 50 yrs ago.

It alarms me as to how some see it as far as that goes and to them we of my see are crazy.

I think what it needs is individual study to learn what His Spirit guides to see and understand.

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[Robert]

Gibs I have no use for your brand of heresy. Your perfectionistic teaching comes from below. Anyone who buys into it is cursed with a curse. See Gal 3:10

[Gibs]

I ask to let this thread get back to "The Laodicean Message; What is it?"

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[Alchemy]

What I find interesting is just like the word "wretched" is only used twice in the NT, so also with the word "miserable".

The other place in the Greek you find this word except for Revelation 3 is in 1 Corinthians 15:19 which reads "If in this life only we have hope in Christ, we are of all men the most pitiable." (NKJV)

If we don't believe Christ is raised from the dead, we are the most miserable. This would be something to repent of as well.

[Robert]

I have given you the Bible....I have given you Ellen White. Both say Laodicea is to repent from its self-righteousness.

[Gibs]

A note of significance of this message to the Laodiceans is that as He says to the first six is, He, or Him that overcometh.

So it becomes a clear fact He expects overcomers all the way through.

Well for sure, He changeth not?

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[JoeMo]

Robert,

I like your post #573838!

Gibs,

You quote the "He that overcometh" thing alot. I will always ask "How do we overcome?" The answer is given in Rev. 12:11 - "They triumphed over him by the blood of the Lamb and by the word of their testimony; they did not love their lives so much as to shrink from death."

I don't see anything in these that says they overcame with perfect sinlessness and abject fear of the Lord. They did not love their lives so much as to shrink from death because they loved God and their fellow man so much they would rather die than betray them. Again, they do this out of love, not any legal obligation.

To repent means to "turn away". To me it means turning away from my self and my performance and turning towards the Lamb and His performance. I'm real comfortable basing my overcoming on what Jesus did. He did it WAY baetter than I could ever do it in my wildest dreams!

[Gibs]

JoeMo, the thing of it is, the reason he came was to first show how as one of us it could be done and then giving us the same power to do as He did. Don't you know that is what He expects us to do.

Think about this. If he was just going to take away our sin and then up and make us righteous He would have done just that without having to come and die and suffer a horrible death.

He came and died for us for our sin in the past and now He is expecting you to overcome as He did with all the Power He had.

You can take it as you like but I and Sister White and the scripture for me agree, we must work with Him to weed out sin in the here and now time or no prize will be given.

Sister White's writtings on salvation is the best there is and she runs in the Bible to substantiate all that she says. If you can controvert any of her statements on what is required of us I'd be pleased to read them. One thing all of us must do is rightly dividing His Word of truth. Right discernment can only come by His Spirit.

2Ti 2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

Yes I bring out "overcome" a lot and Jesus did too and so does Sister White. We overcome by His power in us but He don't overcome for us, our cooperation is needed.

"There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear it. 1 Corinthians 10:13. {AG 254.1}

Will man take hold of divine power, and with determination and perseverance resist Satan, as Christ has given him example in His conflict with the foe in the wilderness of temptation? God cannot save man against his will from the power of Satan's artifices. Man must work with his human power, aided by the divine power of Christ, to resist and to conquer at any cost to himself. In short, man must overcome as Christ overcame. And then, through the victory that it is his privilege to gain by the all-powerful name of Jesus, he may become an heir of God and joint heir with Jesus Christ. This could not be the case if Christ alone did all the overcoming. Man must do his part; he must be victor on his own account, through the strength and grace that Christ gives him. Man must be a co-worker with Christ in the labor of overcoming." {AG 254.2}

If one will not do anything of themselves to be as He, can we expect He will do it all.

I notice there is many who do not like this message of overcoming. It is the message of victory each of must have, so why all the shunning away from it.

How many will make of no effect her testimonies and those of the Bible along with hers on the same subject?

Not I, I assure you, she has got it right without doubt in my see of it.

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[Gail]

Did it ever occur to you that you might all be correct to a certain degree?

The gift of salvation, if accepted and applied to the heart through faith, WILL change the heart. It WILL produce good works. It WILL be how we overcome.

I still say, surrender to Jesus everyday and walk with Him and watch what will happen.

It is simple but it is BIG.

[Gibs]

Gail, for sure it will be from the heart and Christ in us and all things are then possible to us.

Php 4:13 I can do all things through Christ which strengtheneth me.

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[JoeMo]

Amen, Gail,

We must work in partnership with Jesus to have any hope of overcoming. I do maintain that overcoming is the RESULT of our relationship with Jesus; not the PREREQUISITE.

Blessings,

JoeMo

[Gail]

Well said, Joe! I view it as another one of God's wonders.

[Gibs]

I do question "not the prerequisite" when I read such as this,

"God is our strength. We must look to Him for wisdom and guidance, and keeping in view His glory, the good of the church, and the salvation of our own souls, we must overcome our besetting sins. We should individually seek to obtain new victory every day. We must learn to stand alone and depend wholly upon God. The sooner we learn this the better. Let each one find out where he fails, and then faithfully watch that his sins do not overcome him, but that he gets the victory over them. Then can we have confidence toward God, and great trouble will be saved the church." {EW 105.2}

And this one,

Re 2:11 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; He that overcometh shall not be hurt of the second death.

Please tell me how I can take those lightly and those are just a sample.

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[Gail]

And... who is to give you the power to do that? Or should I say give you help both to will and to do of His good pleasure?

That is one aspect of salvation. I am finding it multifaceted, but all good :)

[Gibs]

Christ in us is all the power we need and more.

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

That is a great verse to realize. Yes He fills one with His Love at the same time and works with us in our fallen weakness and gives us strength before we never had. We in Him and He in us,

Col 2:10 And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power:

Joh 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

Ro 8:37 Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us.

He is my strength and stay and impervious covering. The lambs of His pasture are kept safe. For we know He is able and sees all alarms before they come!

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[JoeMo]

I 100% agree with Gibs. "Christ in us is all the power we need and more."