Did Adventism lie to me?

[Lysimachus]

lys,

Yes I agree on the error but as you say it is not the date 457 BC.

I think the error could be found but to do it and try to bring it out wouldn't gain anything or she would have dwelved into it.

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

You mean 458?

[Lysimachus]

More great evidence for 457 over 458:

http://www.itsaboutthattime.net/most_crucial_key.htm

[Gibs]

Lys, I'll make it more clear, yes 457 BC has to be the correct date, cannot be moved.

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[BobRyan]

But Nic, the time of the prophecy degermines when the battle between the goat and the ram. You should see in Dans time and up unto these late yrs the following could not happen,

Da 8:5 And as I was considering, behold, an he goat came from the west on the face of the whole earth, "AND TOUCHED NOT THE GROUND: and the goat had a notable horn between his eyes.

Who is it that has been going halfway around the world and waging war big time, the ole USA, we are the "he" goat. And the notable horn twixt his eyes is the one we make president I believe, the first king of us if you will and now B O has he not set himself up as a dictator?

So even though Daniel 8 says the two animals are MedoPersia and then Greece - the second one is really the U.S. Between the time of Daniel and the rise of the U.S a number of nations went around the world claiming countries beyond Europe as their own - most notably the UK.

[Lysimachus]

So even though Daniel 8 says the two animals are MedoPersia and then Greece - the second one is really the U.S. Between the time of Daniel and the rise of the U.S a number of nations went around the world claiming countries beyond Europe as their own - most notably the UK.

[Gibs]

I will just state this and leave it without any explanation.

We, the USA is the "he" goat and the great, or first horn will be broken off, our president, and this country will be broken up in 4 regions under the rule of the country that owns the most interest in that section and out of one of them Satan will rise up claiming to be Jesus Christ.

Bolt your chair down so it won't upset and watch it come to pass!

Sticking me neck out, maybe, unafraid, yes.

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[JoeMo]

Gibs,

I would like to add that, after the U.S. falls, it is also possible that 4 other nations (China, India, S. Korea, and Japan and/or a revitalized Russia) may be the 4 nations to replace the U.S.

[Gibs]

JoeMo,

There is a Russian analyst that has it close I think but I don't have the url to get to the info He has posted but Canada will have the northern most states and China the west coast side, I don't remember who now for the mid section and east side.

He had started out yrs ago visualizing 6 divisions but now is with the prophecy and it will not be broken.

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[JoeMo]

Interesting ...

If you ever run across the URL, please let me know. Thanks, Gibs!

[todd_vetter33]

457 BC without question. The charts have error. Even if we can't identify where the error is, the Spirit of Prophecy already confirms that it is 457 B.C. So the error is not in Ellen White, it's in the chart---but you have to find it. Even if it takes 300 more years to find the error, there is an error.

You say it is 457 BC with out question but I have many questions. 457 BC points to 31 AD for a crucifixion yet the passover occured on a Monday in 31 AD. This is a fact. If Jesus fulfilled all things in the laws of Moses and died in place of the passover lamb in accordence with the laws of Moses, then this could not be the correct year.

458 BC does not need to omit ten months of the kings reign to justify it as a truth to be the seventh year of the kings reign. 30 AD presents a Wednesday Passover which then allows Jesus to die on a preparation day in accordence with the Laws and Prophecies he claimed to fulfil.

The spirit of Prophecy (provable truth) with out speculations appears to confirm 458 BC for the seventh year of the kings reign and 30 AD for a Crucifixion to be the correct year.

Only speculations support 457 BC to be the correct year. The scipture of Time that Jesus claimed to fulfil do not support 31 AD as the year for crucifixion.

It would be a very incorrect statement to claim 457 BC with out question.

[Gibs]

The last yr Todd of the 490 or 70wks from 457 BC brings you through 33 AD. And yes without question 457 BC is absolutely the Jubilee yr which it must be and is proven so by the Jubilee calendar the first Jubilee on earth being the yr 3985 BC and then all Jubilee yrs recorded fall in line to prove it.

490-457 equals 33 more to go so we start with 1 AD and 33 AD is the end. Now the middle of that 70'th wk is 30 AD

Then 34 AD was a Jubilee yr. a new beginning, gospel went to the Gentiles. The yr 30 AD Jesus and the true Jews kept the true passover 2 days befor the ones who crucified Him and He was crucified on the Friday of a solar wk. He was crucified on the Wed yr of that 70'th wk.

The prophcey didn't miss your information misses though.

456 BC ended the 49 yrs of that cycle and then the 50'th is the first yr. of the next cycle which is 457 BC a Jubilee yr, 408 BC a Jubilee yr, 359 a Jubilee yr, 310 a Jubilee yr, 261 a Jubilee yr, 212 a Jubilee yr, 163 a Jubilee yr, 114 a Jubilee yr, 65 a Jubilee yr, 16 BC a Jubilee yr, Then 16 through 1 BC is 16 plus then 1 AD through 33 AD is 49 yrs the last yr of the cycle and the next yr here then is 34 AD a Jubilee yr.

Joh 17:17 Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth.

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

Edited by Gibs (1 minute 29 seconds ago)

_________________________

A Freeman In Jesus Christ

[Lysimachus]

Originally Posted By: Lysimachus

457 BC without question. The charts have error. Even if we can't identify where the error is, the Spirit of Prophecy already confirms that it is 457 B.C. So the error is not in Ellen White, it's in the chart---but you have to find it. Even if it takes 300 more years to find the error, there is an error.

You say it is 457 BC with out question but I have many questions. 457 BC points to 31 AD for a crucifixion yet the passover occured on a Monday in 31 AD. This is a fact. If Jesus fulfilled all things in the laws of Moses and died in place of the passover lamb in accordence with the laws of Moses, then this could not be the correct year.

458 BC does not need to omit ten months of the kings reign to justify it as a truth to be the seventh year of the kings reign. 30 AD presents a Wednesday Passover which then allows Jesus to die on a preparation day in accordence with the Laws and Prophecies he claimed to fulfil.

The spirit of Prophecy (provable truth) with out speculations appears to confirm 458 BC for the seventh year of the kings reign and 30 AD for a Crucifixion to be the correct year.

Only speculations support 457 BC to be the correct year. The scipture of Time that Jesus claimed to fulfil do not support 31 AD as the year for crucifixion.

It would be a very incorrect statement to claim 457 BC with out question.

But you are wrong Todd.

As Pickle perspicaciously shows, the Passover on Nisan 14 could have easily landed on Friday in 31 A.D. when taking into account the rule of "Postponement", which you completely ignore in your charts:

http://www.pickle-publishing.com/papers/harold-hoehner-70-weeks.htm

[todd_vetter33]

[Gibs]

Where do you get it has to be 3 FULL days and nights? I never saw it. It was on a Fri that it began and was in the grave that day, yes late in the day but was. then the full of the Sabbath and then till early Sun morning. So he was in the grave Sun day too and that makes 3 days, not 3 full days but you need to prove from the Word it must be 3 full days and I am sure you'd waste your time.

Because the Jews who crucified Him kept the passover 2 days late it fell on the Seventh Day Sabbath and was called by them an HIGH day.

Joh 19:31 ¶ The Jews therefore, because it was the preparation, that the bodies should not remain upon the cross on the sabbath day, (for that sabbath day was an high day,) besought Pilate that their legs might be broken, and that they might be taken away.

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[Gibs]

Interesting ...

If you ever run across the URL, please let me know. Thanks, Gibs!

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB123051100709638419.html

I think there is a map, scroll down

[todd_vetter33]

I'm told by many Adventists that the bible is word of God and that it is perfect. Are Adventists telling the truth inspired by the spirit when they make this claim?

In this next chart, The time line of the original passover lamb is illustrated and the bible testimony concerning the events of the last week of the life of Jesus are listed factually as the bible portays them. Because the bible gospels do not agree on the placement of one time events, not all events are portrayed factually by the bible gospels. This means that the bible gospels are not speaking according to the Law and Testimony.

What is discovered is that the bible gospel authors were quite confused concerning the truthful timeing for the placement of events which should illustrate Jesus fufilling the 4 day time specific prophecy of the lamb being chosen by the people on the tenth day (Triumphal Entry) and killed 4 days later (Crucifixion).

What I find most interesting about this slide is how well it details fact concerning the lies told to me by Christians when they claim the bible is without Error. I do belive word of God is with out Error as can be seen by the comparison of the 3 days and 3 nights prophecy with the Mark recording of "after three days". The real question to ask is this: Do Christians claim truthfully that the bible is word of God or is word of God truthfully a spirit of promise that is currently missing from the Christian world?

[Lysimachus]

So basically what you are saying is that Jesus did not fulfill 3 days and 3 nights. I'm glad we cleared that up. Friday to Sunday is not three days and three nights. This is fact.

If Jesus spoke 3 days and 3 nights (prophecy) this is what must be fulfilled or Jesus was a false prophet and Jews who reject Jesus are telling a truth over Christians.

Again, Are you lying or are Jews lying. This issue is about credibility! If Jesus did not fulfill three days and three night then he was lying and the event never occured.

So am I really wrong for being able to illustrate Jesus fulfilling prohpecy where you, the greater majority of Christianity, and Adventism fall short?

Thanks for making this so clear!

I have dealt with this argument here:

http://clubadventist.com/forum/ubbthread...html#Post575145

There will be more coming from our pioneers.

I'm going to show that the critics of today are completely ignorant of the fact that our Pioneers decimated these arguments heretofore.

[Dr. Waite]

But you are wrong Todd.

So basically what you are saying is that Jesus did not fulfill

3 days and 3 nights. I'm glad we cleared that up. Friday to Sunday is not three days and three nights. This is fact.

If Jesus spoke 3 days and 3 nights (prophecy) this is what must be fulfilled or Jesus was a false prophet and Jews who reject Jesus are telling a truth over Christians.

Again, Are you lying or are Jews lying. This issue is about credibility! If Jesus did not fulfill three days and three night then he was lying and the event never occured.

So am I really wrong for being able to illustrate Jesus fulfilling prohpecy where you, the greater majority of Christianity, and Adventism fall short?

Thanks for making this so clear!

[Gibs]

Yes Dr. Waite, that verse makes me go back to the drawing board but there is another verse that is troublesome.

Joh 19:31 The Jews therefore, because it was the preparation, that the bodies should not remain upon the cross on the sabbath day, (for that sabbath day was an high day,) besought Pilate that their legs might be broken, and that they might be taken away.

"an high day"! Now what is the one thing that would make that Sabbath a high day? Jesus and his had celebrated the Passover and the Jews that crucified Him two days later. Isn't a "high Sabbath" when another feast day falls on the seventh day Sabbath? It runs in mind Jesus kept it on a wednesday our calendar but this makes it look like it would have to be Thursday.

I gotta do some more research on this as now I'm puzzled.

From a quick look, Passover did start at evening our calendar Friday!

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[Dr. Waite]

Gibs it is good for you to go back to the drawing board.

So, then I have another question.

Did Jesus ever refer to "the heart of the earth" as being "sheol" or "hades"?

[Gibs]

Dr. Waite, but John 19:31 must be reckoned with, how do we reconcile this with 3 nights.

Joh 19:31 The Jews therefore, because it was the preparation, that the bodies should not remain upon the cross on the sabbath day, (for that sabbath day was an high day,) besought Pilate that their legs might be broken, and that they might be taken away.

I find that those Jews who hung Him had their passover on the Sabbath, seventh day. That made it a high day to them.

Jesus and his disciples had kept passover before I find two days earlier.

Hillbilly would say, we is got ourselves one of them thar probelems.

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[Kevin H]

Gibs: Your question fits neetly in realizing that there was a debate in Jesus' day over the time reconing for the feasts, in which Jesus respected both views. He had the last supper as a passover meal on the day some Jewish groups such as the Esenes celebrated passover, then died on the official temple and Pharicee passover. (there are several pieces of evidence for this, such as them following a man carrying a water pitcher. Usually women carried the water, second most common were donkeys, and if a male carried a water pitcher it was probably an Esene)

[Gibs]

Yes Kevin I find Jesus was an Esene. They kept it as should. The others used the Babylonian method of sighting the first sliver which at times cannot be seen for two days. They could have really told though as Passover is on the FULL moon and not two days later as it begins to wane.

Really though they had accurate records and should have done it by calculating and would have done it on time as the Esenes and Jesus and the disciples did. Theirs was not the offical way of the Pharisees.

The problem is it makes it rather clear that the next day was the seventh day Sabbath and theirs also for passover.

So how can 3 days and then 3 nights be reconciled?

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[todd_vetter33]

Dr. Waite, but John 19:31 must be reckoned with, how do we reconcile this with 3 nights.

Joh 19:31 The Jews therefore, because it was the preparation, that the bodies should not remain upon the cross on the sabbath day, (for that sabbath day was an high day,) besought Pilate that their legs might be broken, and that they might be taken away.

I find that those Jews who hung Him had their passover on the Sabbath, seventh day. That made it a high day to them.

Jesus and his disciples had kept passover before I find two days earlier.

Hillbilly would say, we is got ourselves one of them thar probelems.

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

Only Christians claim a Saturday falling in conjunction with a ceremonial Sabbath is a high day. Jews would disagree. That excuse is simply a Speculation by Christians in an attempt to solidify a Friday Crucifixion which misrepresents what Jesus accomplished.

The Origens of the High day concept comes from the first 15th of Nissan, the day the Isrealites left egypt, by the HIGH hand of God. See below link for Biblical evidence of this fact. Also presented at this link is Evidence of Lucifers efforts to hide the true symbolism of the origens of the High day concept from Christians.

http://thedeathandresurection.com/pdf/numbers%2033-3%20all%20versions

A Verifiable ancient text that the 4 bible gospels originated from, Has this to say about the HIGH day you mentioned.

There are many ancients Texts, some of which use to be considered bible cannon in the Early church which testify of 3 days and 3 nights. So my claims are backed by more than my opinion. Rome went to great lengths to push the Friday Crucifixion concept and bury anything that would lead to anything other than their perception of the false truth carried by many in the Christian world today. Below is Evidence of this fact.

Jesus and the Diciples were not having a passover meal. The Last Supper was a meal in which Jesus made a covenant with his followers to always partake in healthy eating and to refrain from the eating flesh. You'll find this testimony preserved in the G-12 Text. A vegetarian Health message was a core teaching of Jesus, but is almost completely missing from the roman cannon greek texts.

Those who claim Jesus had to die on a Friday due to friday being a preparation day only illustrate their lack of knowlege of the Laws of Moses that Jesus claimed to fulfill.

This next page illustrates the time line of the original Passover Lamb in comparison to the Gregorian concept. A preparation day can clearly and factually fall on other days of the week beside Friday.

Unless you believe God's word (What Jesus Spoke)concerning 3 days and 3 nights (Prophecy and truth) you will never see 3 days and 3 nights. Prophecy is God's witness of his son and if we do not believe God's witness of his son, we make God look like a liar. Tradition and the many speculations to defend a lie that makes god look like a liar is all you will ever see.

The top half of this next page illustrates all the differing theories of inclusive reconning developeed by Christians during their history that becuase they speak not according to the law and testimony, make God look like a liar. The time line on the bottom is designed to restore credibility by illustrating the truth of the duration of time spent in the heart of the earth

[Gibs]

It remains a fact that Jesus died preparation day, no if's and an's about it. What day is next? The Sabbath!

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.