Did Adventism lie to me?

[todd_vetter33]

It remains a fact that Jesus died preparation day, no if's and an's about it. What day is next? The Sabbath!

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

And that my friend Gibs, is exactly what I have shared with you in accordence with the laws of Moses and the time line of the original passover lamb! At no time have I claimed otherwise! If you believe that I have, please illustrate from the charts below where I have not represented Jesus dying on A preparation day in accordence with the laws of Moses and the prophecies that Jesus claimed to fulfill. The only difference between our opinions is a truth VS a lie. I claim and illustrate Jesus fulfilled time specific prophecy. You also claim Jesus fulfilled prophecy, but then illustrate he did not when you claim a Friday to Sunday time line.

I even illustrate your percpetion in the 4th chart in comparison to my perception so that you can see I am speaking a truth.

perhaps these next three illustrations will be helpful in understanding how the Jewish Ceremonial Laws that Jesus claimed to fulfill work in conjunction with Gregorian time.

[Gibs]

Todd, why don't you just give a link to the mile long charts you have that people who want to can look them over, you take up so much cyber space that no one is looking at.

I have a hard time with them and I have far simpler ones easy for me that I go to and the true calendars for that time.

People just don't read even some short posts if it is something they don't want to see.

Your post of it turns out too wide too. Better on that today though.

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[todd_vetter33]

Todd, why don't you just give a link to the mile long charts you have that people who want to can look them over, you take up so much cyber space that no one is looking at.

I have a hard time with them and I have far simpler ones easy for me that I go to and the true calendars for that time.

People just don't read even some short posts if it is something they don't want to see.

Your post of it turns out too wide too. Better on that today though.

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

Short posts tend to not cover the issues objectively. As you can see my motivation is to be as objective as possible.

The link you are requesting is found Below. Enjoy. If at any time you see any information not represented truthfully, feel free to bring this to my attention.

http://thedeathandresurection.com/pdf/the%20death%20and%20resurrection.pdf

This is the only study available on the internet to date that uses Verified ancient Christian testimony to illustrate Jesus fulling the 4 day time specific prophecy of the lamb (Ten Nissan - 14 Nissan) as well as 3 days and 3 nights.

If People want to read the truth vs the lie. They will come and they will read. It's in God's hands to inspire those who seek the truth until they find.

[Q.E.D.]

If People want to read the truth vs the lie. They will come and they will read. It's in God's hands to inspire those who seek the truth until they find.

Please be sure to put me on record as Not Interested. . .

Q.E.D.

[Nic Samojluk]

Then is when the angel tells Dan the 70 wks is taken off the whole of the time.

Where is the text which states that the 70 weeks is taken off from a longer time period?

[Gibs]

It is Dan 9:27

Da 9:24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.

Determined is translated from,

chathak khaw-thak'

a primitive root; properly, to cut off, i.e. (figuratively) to decree:--determine.

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[Nic Samojluk]

But Nic, the time of the prophecy degermines when the battle between the goat and the ram. You should see in Dans time and up unto these late yrs the following could not happen,

Da 8:5 And as I was considering, behold, an he goat came from the west on the face of the whole earth, "AND TOUCHED NOT THE GROUND: and the goat had a notable horn between his eyes.

Who is it that has been going halfway around the world and waging war big time, the ole USA, we are the "he" goat. use greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

I do not see the role of the U.S. depicted in this prophecy. I prefer to stick to the interpretation given by the Angel

Gabriel to Daniel. He identified the ram with Media and Persia, the the goat with Greece. and the big horn with Greek's first king.

[Nic Samojluk]

Supplementary Evidence in Support of 457 B.C. as the Starting Date for the 2300 Day-Years of Daniel 8:14:

I do not see any problem with the 457 date for the starting point of the prophetic period described in Daniel 9.

I believe that the 2300 days prophecy has its own starting date. Several biblical interpreters have used a more logical date for the prophecy found in Daniel 8:14. Using the battle between Alexander the Great and the military forcees of Media and Persia makes more logical sense.

This battle took place at Granicus in 334 B.C. If you add 2300 years to it allowing for the lack of a zero year between B.C. and A.D., then you arrive at 1967 A.D., the year modern Israel defeated the combined military forces of the Arab nations.

[Nic Samojluk]

So even though Daniel 8 says the two animals are MedoPersia and then Greece - the second one is really the U.S. Between the time of Daniel and the rise of the U.S a number of nations went around the world claiming countries beyond Europe as their own - most notably the UK.

How can you go from Alexander the Great to the U.S.? That is a huge jump, isn't it? I prefer to the simple explanation given by the angel. The big horn is the first king: Alexander the Great.

[Nic Samojluk]

We, the USA is the "he" goat and the great, or first horn will be broken off, our president, and this country will be broken up in 4 regions under the rule of the country that owns the most interest in that section and out of one of them Satan will rise up claiming to be Jesus Christ.

Wow! I am suppossed to accept your explanation and reject the explanation given by the Angel Gabriel! The angel said:

"The shaggy goat is the king of Greece." Daniel 8:21]

What you are saying sounds like Greek to me!

[Nic Samojluk]

It is Dan 9:27

Da 9:24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.

Determined is translated from,

chathak khaw-thak'

a primitive root; properly, to cut off, i.e. (figuratively) to decree:--determine.

I knew you would give this answer. Do you realize that the majority of Bible translators use the term "determined"? I havent located a single case where a Bible translator used the term "cut off." Have you?

Isn't it curious that we, Adventists, seem to be the only ones providing this ackward interpretation of Daniel 8? After a century of preaching this strange Investigating doctrine, we have convinced no other religious group to accept such unbiblical doctrine.

All we have done has been to convince ourseelves that we are right on this topic and all the world is wrong. How strange!

[Gibs]

Really though Nick before I knew the meaning of the original tongue into English I didn't have no trouble with "determined". As it came to me it had to be determined from some prophecy and then for me I had determined it had to be the 2300. Then later I discovered the real reason that it had to be in yrs and not solar days.

I had found the Jubilee Calendar and became fasinated enough to start runing it from Adam's first year a Jubilee down and wham it hit me when it hit 457 BC a Jubilee.

Then it became serious when I found at the end of the 70'th wk another Jubilee.

Then too that 70'th wk the mid year of wham o, again, right on, Christ died on the cross.

Then this verse came up in mind, - - Da 9:27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

Yes He fullfilled what all those pointed to, the True Lamb's blood was shed.

Then I realized yes this was the main pillar of the SDA faith.

Nic, for me I must say it is solid.

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[jamesonofthunder]

Same old Todd

[LifeHiscost]

Quote:

Regardless of which of the two possible royal decrees you choose for a starting point of the prophecy, (458B.C. or 444 B.C.) both bring you to the days when Jesus walked the earth as Messiah and then was "cut off" or crucified.

Here is an interesting page on the date being discussed. The fact that there is some disagreement about the exact time seems to fall in the same category as "Is Jesus really Who He says He is?" or possibly, "When I find a contradiction in the Bible, doesn't that prove it cannot be trusted."

These arguments or discussions only seem to me to stir up reasons to doubt the belief in the veracity of the Word as opposed to establishing confidence in the plan of salvation as revealed in the life of Jesus, given for the lost.

http://jewishroots.net/library/prophecy/daniel/daniel-9-24-27/royal-decree.html

God blesses!

[Nic Samojluk]

Really though Nick before I knew the meaning of the original tongue into English I didn't have no trouble with "determined". As it came to me it had to be determined from some prophecy and then for me I had determined it had to be the 2300. Then later I discovered the real reason that it had to be in yrs and not solar days. ...

Then I realized yes this was the main pillar of the SDA faith.

Nic, for me I must say it is solid.

Did you make this discovery as a result of the simple reading of Scripture, or because you were previously exposed to the Adventist teaching regarding the Investigative Doctrine?

I see no reason to use the same starting point for both prophetical predictions. The most common meaning of the term "determined" is "settled" instead of "cut off," and all Bible translators seem to be in agreemeent that the word determined conveys the original meaning of the text.

Your discovery of the Jubilee events is very interesting, but has nothing to do with the 2300 day propheecy. There is no direct connection between the prophetical 2300 days and the seventy weeks prophecy. Each of those periods have, I believe, its own starting point.

It makes more sense to use the 334 B.C. Granicus Battle between Alexander the Great against the military forces of Media and Persia as a starting point for the 2300 prophecy than the date for the seventy weeks prophetical prediction. It agrees better with the explanation provided by the angel.

[Gibs]

I didn't really believe it solid Nic until I found that it is the Jubilee calendar that was the time clock God gave it on. I was skeptical before. But having run the Jubilee calendar from yr one of Adam and the next after the 49'th each time a Jubilee and so many of them brand new important beginnings.

Then when it hit 457 BC being a Jubilee and then after the 70'th wk ended the next being a Jubilee cinched it.

The Jubilee calendar works different than so many realize. The cycle is 49 yrs, 7x7 and always after the 49'th the Jubilee is the 1'st yr of the next 49, and it called the 50'th and it is also the first yr beginning a new cycle.

This really only makes the Jubilees 49 yrs apart. The Jubilee is only called the 50'th yr. It is actually yr one or Sunday yr of a new cycle of sevens.

The last yr of the 49 was a sabbatical for the land, then the next was a Sunday yr and was a sabbatical for the land also because of it being the Jubilee yr. This two yr in a row sabbatical only happened every 49 yrs.

Some people want to make the Jubilee cycles 50 yrs and it is not that way.

The decree has to be a Jubilee because it is a very important beginning and 457 BC only of any dates tried are close to hitting and it must hit dead on. I find 334 BC is pretty close in the middle of a Jubilee cycle.

I believe a mistake was made in the figures coming to 1843-1844 but to me it is close enough for the end time to start so I don't fuss with it. Ellen said God showerd a mistake was in the figures. 1847 was the Jubilee yr and 1994 was our last one.

Man failed in giving the land it's sabbaths to the depletion of it and the cost to man of poorer and poorer nutrition. God brought it back to the Isralites at the Exodus but it was let go again and man has long forgotten it. Another area of disobedience.

1 Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[Lysimachus]

Turns out that Adventism has not lied to Todd. But he sure is lying to Adventism, with the deceptive subterfuge of his insanely complex charts with the intents of confusing people.

[Nic Samojluk]

I didn't really believe it solid Nic until I found that it is the Jubilee calendar that was the time clock God gave it on. I was skeptical before. But having run the Jubilee calendar from yr one of Adam and the next after the 49'th each time a Jubilee and so many of them brand new important beginnings.

Then when it hit 457 BC being a Jubilee and then after the 70'th wk ended the next being a Jubilee cinched it.

For some reason I fail to see the significance of the Jubilee year for the 2300 days prophecy. 2300 is not dividible by 49. If you use the Jubilee method, then you can't use it both for the beginning and the end of the 2300 years.

Can you explain how you overcome this dilemma?

[hch]

Last year, I knew this chart was in error but I could not see the error at that time so I set it aside for a later date.

The error is the first year of King Artaxerxes.

He began to reign in 565 BC. But that was not his "first year" it was the completion of his father's last year, which would be his Ascension Year as the custom of the day dictates.

Thus according to the chart below, Artaxerxes' second year was his "First year."

That is significant because Ezra (living at that time and aware of the custom of the day) would not have cited Artaxerxes' "Ascension year" as his "First Year." Ezra would have counted what the chart below cites as the "second year" as the "Frist Year of Artaxerxes" and that aligns with the corrected chart perfectly so that what the chart labels as the 8th-year is now the 7th of Artaxerxes.

FYI: Artaxerxes' decree included the command "That they may offer sacrifices of sweet savours unto the God of heaven, and pray for the life of the king, and of his sons." Ezra 6:10.

The natural time to pray especially for the King and his sons would be on the Day of Atonement. And for the 2300-years to end on the Day of Atonement in 1843 or 1844, the 2300-days could not begin at the time of Artaxerxes' decree in 457 BC, but at the time of the implementation of the decree on the Day of Atonement 457 BC.