Riddle me this if you will

[Gibs]

Well you see it is not I who is worried one little bit about just exactly when the end will be. For myself I just know it, that time of the finish of this hell of sin is at the time of ending. Really I'm glad, as you see I've had enough of this crooked evil world.

You see the time table for not the exact date isn't laid for us to see but our God does want His obedient ones to know we are close and not to lament that it must go on.

No I have not had to figure out anything. We know as close as did Enoch and all the prophets. Daniel was overtaken that it was so far away, he wanted to see it close sooner.

I know the Jubilee calendar and it is so very accurate of the time of Adams first yr to now that we are not totally in the dark of the nearness.

By the end of 2016 AD mankind will have been on this sphere 6,000 yrs. and yes the earth is mucho older than that. It could go a yr pro or con as the Lord God is the one who has set the appointed time it shall be.

By the end of 2013 you won't be in too much question of that and may be glad too it is soon to finish.

Well EC we'll just watch and see and in me I have no fear.

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[JoeMo]

MT has as good of a grasp of the Bible as many of us; and it is unbiased by denominational programming. O that more of us could make a more balanced study of God's Word without the bias of man-made religion!

[Gail]

This brings me back to John 17:3-

And THIS is life eternal, that they might know thee, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom thou hast sent.

I think that the well-intentioned people back in EC's early days may have missed the point. Knowing God- can anyone dictate how that will come about? Yet, I think our young people can handle a deep concept like that.

If we see the symptoms of drifting in a young person, challenge them with THAT- that life eternal comes from knowing God. Give 'em a Bible and tell them that the answer is in there, that God gives His Spirit of truth to help and let them go and see what they will find. If they have one spiritual friend to give them hugs and wise counsel along the way (the whys and hows more than the whats), they will be encouraged.

It's like anything- if a person is told only about their faults and finger-pointed at instead of being invited to the fountain of living waters, it's not going to be long before the idea is planted that rules are all there are to church. That and the feeling that everyone is focusing on your sins.

[Gibs]

What must be realized in the beginning of life is to realize we are sinners, all of us are and we do not have to die for them as Jesus Christ made the way for us all to be saved and pardoned.

We have a life in the here and now but it is not the life He intended, He wants us to have a life that is far far more abundant and He came and gave Himself for us that we might have that true eternal abundant life.

What a wonderful Saviour is our Jesus and His Father who gave of Himself in Him!!

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[JoeMo]

Gibs,

I repectfully disagree that filling our children with the denigration and humiliation of being sinners is the answer to the world's moral free fall. Rather than beating them up and filling their minds with negative feedback, (essentially filling them with a spiritual orphan spirit), we need to reinforce in them how much God loves them; and that that love is unconditional. We need to tell them that they are the children of the King of the universe; and teach them how to act like princes and princesses - not cajole and minipulate them into NOT acting like sinners. Then we need to practice what we preach; and love them unconditionally - like their heavenly Father loves them. How can they picture a loving heavenly Father when their earthly parents to nothing but criticize them and tell them what sinners they are?

People with a high self-esteem (I'm not talking about spoiled brats)and high standards generally act out those high standards. people who are secure in the unconditional love of family members rarely seek out attention through rebellion and negative behavior.

If we could all be filled with the confidence of unconditional love from our heavenly Father to the point that we acted on that love - celebrating God's love and grace towards us rather than fearing His wrath and retribution - maybe we wouldn't care when He comes, as long as He does come.

[CoAspen]

Double Amen!!

[Gibs]

Spoiled brats as you brought up there most generally from my observation come from homes where parents don't teach the children obedience and let them go as they please without any training in right and wrong.

They don't know they are doing wrong as they don't know it's wrong and get to love doing wrong.

It is getting dangerous in many communities now and ours is a Christian one here but breakins and roberies are abounding here now. Hard times have come to us here and in many other places.

Hard times brings out the good and the bad. The homeless are increaing at a great rate and people are bundling up into one home and homes are for sale and rent or lease gallore.

The worldly Christianity of today has let the people down. Infidelity abounds among the pastorate of today sad to say. Is the Holy Spirit with those and what effect does it have on those they preach to?

Sin no more Jesus said after forgivness, but today go and sin God loves us so much He knows you can't help yourself, it will be well with your soul. Just believe and He'll forgive you.

Well I don't and cannot and will not believe such a lie.

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[JoeMo]

Gibs,

You said " but today go and sin God loves us so much He knows you can't help yourself, it will be well with your soul. Just believe and He'll forgive you."

I don't see where anyone here is encouraging anyone to sin. The closest anyone gets to that is admitting that they are a sinner, but they are saved by grace and not submission to the law.

I'm insulted that you would imply that I would encourage people to sin. I'm saying is that love is a much better motivator for obedience than fear.

[Woody]

Gibs,

You said " but today go and sin God loves us so much He knows you can't help yourself, it will be well with your soul. Just believe and He'll forgive you."

I don't see where anyone here is encouraging anyone to sin. The closest anyone gets to that is admitting that they are a sinner, but they are saved by grace and not submission to the law.

I'm insulted that you would imply that I would encourage people to sin. I'm saying is that love is a much better motivator for obedience than fear.

Sad .... but it's a common refrain from conservatives JoeMo

[Gibs]

JoeMo,

Good to hear you are not of that persuasion. It has gotten to be the theology of today that I witness against strongly..

We must not continue in sin as when Christ is in one that one has all the power that can be had to put it away. Jesus has all the power of the Father and when He has taken up abode in the soul Temple we can walk solid with Him.

To doubt that is a lack of faith. I have that faith and can't see as how it would be hard for any and all to have the same.

No to obey out of fear is the wrong motive. The fear in the KJV is some times REVERANCE and yes that is what we should have.

We do His Will because we love and revere Him First and Best above all. It is our pleasure to do His will and a real downer to give the least to the destroyer.

When we have come to HATE SIN enogh that we shun it like the plague we are on the right track.

JM I have become to realize you agree with me more than you post out your thoughts. I would just say, don't be afraid to stand alone. A mix of things are going on in your mind and I believe you will be with Jesus first best and always and hear the still small voice of His Spirit. I find you are sincere in pleasing Him above all and that is what it takes.

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[M. T. Cross]

To doubt that is a lack of faith. I have that faith and can't see as how it would be hard for any and all to have the same.

It can be real hard if a person can find no reason to have that faith. If none of it makes any sense to them and no matter how much they study the matter they can not find it to be convincing.

I could say that I can't see how its hard for you to accept that my Gods are as valid as yours. That they have a message of hope like you believe yours does.

The thing is I am sincerely happy for you. Happy that you have found a place of peace and a place of hope. I don't care in the slightest that you found that with a God(s) that are different than mine. If you pay attention you will notice I never actually insult your God. I may make the snide remark here or there about the way some people present that God, but not the God himself. I also seldom care what anyone thinks of my Gods. I may twinge now and then when someone refers to them as comic book characters or demons. But in the end I know what they are and what they are not. I feel as secure in my path and worldview as you do in yours.

None of this is the point though. What I don't understand is why so many people (there are pagans that do it too) get so hung up on what its all going to end. The Divine, the Gods, whoever, gave us this life to enjoy. There is a lot of evil in this world, but there is a great deal of beauty and goodness as well. That is as it should be. Without the evil the beauty and goodness would never seem as bright. We suffer at times and we can learn from these times, we can grow and we can shine that much more brightly on the other side of the suffering. I think it is insulting to the Divine will to spend our time focusing on the end of time rather than making the most of the time that was allotted to each of us.

[CoAspen]

Quote:

There is a lot of evil in this world, but there is a great deal of beauty and goodness as well. That is as it should be. Without the evil the beauty and goodness would never seem as bright. We suffer at times and we can learn from these times, we can grow and we can shine that much more brightly on the other side of the suffering. I think it is insulting to the Divine will to spend our time focusing on the end of time rather than making the most of the time that was allotted to each of us.

[Gibs]

EC,

We do differ that this life is to be a joy. Satan makes his own joy in the riches of this world but Christ's followers, Satan's role is to make it hard as he can.

This life is a trial time, a trial to see of whom you will have as the master in you. The ones who will be safe to take into the Heavenly Kingdom of Bliss will be those who have emdeded in their hearts and souls for eternity they will ever be only with, for and of Him who is our rightful Master and King.

It is only the body which dies here of this life. Then those in the first resurrection will live eternally, those of the second will die the eternal death of both body spirit and soul never to be no more.

Eternal burning in hell fire is a fallacy, only the fire that consumes the wicked is eternal.

There is an infinite intelligence that put together and gave all life forms and life itself is from the Spirit of Him who is life. Well men think they can create life from scratch, well first they must create and make up the "scratch" that would produce it. They can't because life is Spirit.

Then just take a look at all the beautiful flowers and these and all growing things are life, all seeds have life in them to perpetuate their kind.

Is it all happenstance? No way shape of form. Who and what power keeps the heavens and the uncountable number of bodies of stars and planets in perfect order and from being drawn to each other and crashing goin on all the time.

There is a Great One who is so Great we are not able with finite minds to grasp the infinite. It and He is far out and beyond our comphrehension.

Man's intelligence and wisdom is foolishness in comparison to the infinite of the creation of all the wonders of it all. Everywhere one can look there is such beauty of far superior design and continuation of it if it isn't destroyed by man it is unfathonable. Evolution, happenstance, no, all is degrading, not evoluting to better.

Who is that Great one EC and what is His Name? You know if there were more than one, there would be war until there was just one!

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

Before sin and the fall this world was so beautiful and pure it would be astounding to us but we are given to understand the Garden of Eden was so much higher to make the outside look dismal.

[Gibs]

Quote:

There is a lot of evil in this world, but there is a great deal of beauty and goodness as well. That is as it should be. Without the evil the beauty and goodness would never seem as bright. We suffer at times and we can learn from these times, we can grow and we can shine that much more brightly on the other side of the suffering. I think it is insulting to the Divine will to spend our time focusing on the end of time rather than making the most of the time that was allotted to each of us.

Trouble I see though CA is that so many are not making the most of the short time each has even of a full 70 or more yrs of life here. Isn't it nice to help others to take hold of the promises and the way He has made to be in His Kingdom of Bliss?

How are you spending your time, working against those who would wake up the masses? Seems as though you quip a lot and don't take part.

There will be a lot of foolish virgins, help them to get the precious oil while it is still available.

We are finite and time is for the finite, time will run out.

Time means nothing to the eternal, and if we have the faith and are truly His we do have eternal life now though appointed once to die.

What then does the truly saved have any worry of the time being short, he doesn't. Know it or not man's time has always been short in this life, even with Methusala.

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[Woody]

Quote:

How are you spending your time, working against those who would wake up the masses? Seems as though you quip a lot and don't take part.

Oh Good Grief.

And you know this because ....

[JoeMo]

MT says: "If you pay attention you will notice I never actually insult your God. I may make the snide remark here or there about the way some people present that God, but not the God himself. I also seldom care what anyone thinks of my Gods."

That is one of the qualities that drew me to be a "fan" of yours, MT. You rarely (if ever) criticize YHWH; and you don't take offense at those who would dare to criticize your deities.

Joshua 24:15 says "But if serving the Lord seems undesirable to you, then choose for yourselves this day whom you will serve, whether the gods your ancestors served beyond the Euphrates, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land you are living. But as for me and my household, we will serve the Lord.”

Even though you are not a Christian believer, I find a more charitable ond balanced spirit in you than in most. You seem to "get it" as far as what we are here for - to serve our deities and our brothers and sisters. Whether it be through the end of the Age or through death, we will all find ourselves on the "other side" some day. Our end will either come at "The End" or at death. As long as I am "right" with my God, it matters not. Our focus needs to be on today - we can't undo yesterday; and we can't change tomorrow. If I'm ready for "The End" now and enjoying my physical and spiritual life in the process, it doesn't matter when the end comes.

[Gibs]

Is there false gods and but one True God, yes for me I am sure so. Here is a few verses for all to consider and I know EC is not one to possible see this but for others who may be kinda on the fence.

Jer 10:10 But the LORD is the true God, he is the living God, and an everlasting king: at his wrath the earth shall tremble, and the nations shall not be able to abide his indignation.

Jer 10:11 Thus shall ye say unto them, The gods that have not made the heavens and the earth, even they shall perish from the earth, and from under these heavens.

Jer 10:12 He hath made the earth by his power, he hath established the world by his wisdom, and hath stretched out the heavens by his discretion.

Jer 10:13 When he uttereth his voice, there is a multitude of waters in the heavens, and he causeth the vapours to ascend from the ends of the earth; he maketh lightnings with rain, and bringeth forth the wind out of his treasures.

Jer 10:14 Every man is brutish in his knowledge: every founder is confounded by the graven image: for his molten image is falsehood, and there is no breath in them.

"Breath is Spirit, life!"

Jer 10:15 They are vanity, and the work of errors: in the time of their visitation they shall perish.

All the Great and Majestic Wonders of an endless Creation came from a super powerful one with the master of all minds He created. There is not a mind that He did not create. There is not anything that He did not create.

He is the total and only rightful owner of it all. Satan wrested the rulership of the earth given to Adam for his family who would never die had they not give in to Satan, one little disobedience did it. The mould and disease of sin spread rapidly and is a co-distroyer with the father of it the Devil.

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

Now it is the wonderful wonderful world of oz. Who is oz?

[JoeMo]

Gibs says to MT: "Seems as though you quip a lot and don't take part."

Gotta go with Woody on this Gibs. IMO, EmptyCross is one of the most balanced and "grace-giving" men on CA. Just cuz he's not in the "Top 20" doesn't mean he doesn't take part. Everything he posts is relevant and honest. Just cuz he's not Christian doesn't mean he doesn't have a good spirit. I wish some of us Christians (including myself) were as balanced, caring, and patient as he is. What you call "quips", I call mentally stimulating and witty.

[JoeMo]

Maybe if we as Christians would represent the Father of Lights as the loving and caring parent that He is instead of implying judgement and condemnation on people that don't believe exactly as we do, it would be easier for people to accept YHWH.

[CoAspen]

Quote:

Isn't it nice to help others to take hold of the promises and the way He has made to be in His Kingdom of Bliss?

Yup! And that is what I see a self avowed 'pagan' doing, lifting up others, seeing the positive in the world, and wishing others could see more of that instead of 'worrying'.

Quote:

How are you spending your time, working against those who would wake up the masses?

Come now!! There is a difference between "waking up the masses" and shouting in their face with a horn!

It seems Christ talks about listening to a 'still, small voice', can we not do the same! Christ also talked about knowing when a 'sparrow falls' and all the 'hairs on our heads', why worry, spread the "Good News" of believing in Christ! Why is it that some, such as EC, have a 'non-shouting' approach of 'walking the talk' and are look down on because of their belief system when He tells us things that we should be 'preaching' to others? I trust the Holy Spirit to be my guide and to lead others into a better understanding of the God I believe in. According to Christ, God sent the H*S for us, to guide us, to comfort, to support, etc, so why not let that take place!!

[BobRyan]

I see a lot of threads regarding the timeline of the end of earth, the second coming etc.

Now if we totally disregard Matthew 24:36 and think that it can be figured out, my question is this - Why does it even matter?

If you are secure in your belief, secure in that you are doing the best you possibly can to follow the mandate your God has set out before you, does it matter when it is that he decides that it is time?

What was John the baptizer's answer to that question?

His answer "the time is now" of the form "the time has been fulfilled" speaking of the Dan 9 timeline.

What was Christ's answer to that question during His ministry on earth? "The Time has been fulfilled" - speaking of the Dan 9 timeline.

In Matt 24 Christ argues that we are to be aware of the times - to read the signs of the times the way one reads the weather to know what is about to happen.

So also Paul in 1Thess 5 argues that we must not be asleep - but be aware of the times.

So also did Noah have to be aware of the time and the project and the mission of "present truth" for his day in building the ark.

I suppose Noah "could" have said - "you know we all have to die sometime" and left off the mission that God gave as present truth.

in Christ,

Bob

[JoeMo]

CoAspen:

very much

[Gibs]

CA, Ya gots to shout to people that are hard of hearing, well once in awhile I might have the urge to shout here but I guess that would take up using large fonts and caps. Ole Gibs hasn't resorted to that kind of response.

I just find some don't like my testimony, well many didn't like Jesus's either so I'm not totally alone.

Discuss it with me but don't put me down, as I will not you or any intentionaly and if I do I owe an apology.

And in BobRyan's post above, I would say we all better be thankfull Noah was aware and believed of the coming end time with a flood as he got the ark built in time or we wouldn't be here.

The signs all fortell and they are many!

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[M. T. Cross]

EC,

We do differ that this life is to be a joy. Satan makes his own joy in the riches of this world but Christ's followers, Satan's role is to make it hard as he can.

[Gibs]

What is your source of what the Divine is? Why do you see and from what source that the Divine is more than one Deity.

Many Christians believe their is 3 Deities. They claim their source is the Bible but they fail on showing me that.

And finally why do you like to communicate with us differing Christians that claim to be of the one Book, the Bible.

I though don't see all the versions as the Bible, since most are copyrighted and require so many changes to be copyrighted. The real Bible can't be copyrighted as it don't dare to have a jot or tittle added or left out.

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.