The Bible Says Christ Rose Early Saturday Morning

[jasd]

>>But here, I believe, it was God who gave Matthew's text, who led Robertson into making a little mistake that would cost his followers (I am one) to make re-assessment of their doctrines.

You noticed it, Jasd?<<

No, I did not notice the "mistake" - and it would be remiss of me not to ask about it...

Please, to point it out.

[Johnnboy]

Besides the Bible and Spirit of Prophecy evidence, just ask a Jewish Orthodox rabbi and he will tell you that the wave-sheaf was always waved on the second day of the feast of unleavened bread, and that this was the practice ever since the time of Moses.

The first century Jewish historian, Josephus, also makes it very clear that the first-fruits of the barley harvest were always waved before the Lord on the 16th day of the first month, which was always on the second day of the feast of unleavened bread.

The waving of the sheaf according to Leviticus 23 is always on the morrow after the Sabbath, the “Sabbath” mentioned being one of the “ceremonial” or “shadow” Sabbaths, not the Holy Seventh-day Sabbath, “the Sabbath of the Lord”, see Leviticus 23: 38, 39. Thus, the first day of the Feast of Unleavened Bread is always a “shadow” Sabbath, a prophecy in itself, of where the Holy Seventh-day Sabbath will occur in the year when the feasts, Passover, Feast of Unleavened Bread, and the Wave sheaf, were fulfilled.

[Johnnboy]

In the scheduling of the feast days, some are holding rigidly to the first sighting of the new moon as the beginning of the month, whereas, others are using the night of the actual conjunction of the moon.

By studying the Hebrew method of calculation used by 98 percent of the Jewish people (see the Hebrew perpetual calendar Hebcal), one finds both methods used at different times in determining the beginning of the months.

In some cases, the first sighting of the new moon is used, but at other times the night of the actual conjunction, if by using one method or the other, the beginning of the month can be made to coincide with the Holy Seventh-day Sabbath.

We must always remember that,

“What advantage then hath the Jew? or what profit [is there] of circumcision? Much every way: chiefly, because that unto them were committed the oracles of God.” Romans 3:1, 2.

We cannot get correct information about the scheduling of the feast days from other sources, whether from the U.S. Naval Observatory or anyone else, although the U.S. Naval Observatory has very accurate information regarding the precise timing of the moon phases.

When considering all of the evidence, including the moon phases for the first month in 31 C.E., the evidence indicates a Friday Passover and a Sunday resurrection on the day of the Wave sheaf offering.

[jasd]

You addressed this to me in the aborted thread – so, I’ll answer here…

>>Besides the Bible and Spirit of Prophecy evidence, just ask a Jewish Orthodox rabbi and he will tell you that the wave-sheaf was always waved on the second day of the feast of unleavened bread, and that this was the practice ever since the time of Moses.<<

Yes, part of what you say may be true, as today’s Rabbanim assert that they are today’s Pharisees – and yes, the Pharisees did/do have the tradition of celebrating the first count of Pentecost beginning on the 16th day of Abib/Nisan, which tradition began after the fall of the Second Temple.

No disrespect, however, Jewish Rabbanim tend to depend overly-heavy upon The Traditions. Some of the earlier traditions Jesus Christ took issue with. So, until they distance themselves from such, errr, ‘stuff’ - I am somewhat jaundiced and gimlet eyed re their weighing-in upon this or that matter.

>>The first century Jewish historian, Josephus, also makes it very clear that the first-fruits of the barley harvest were always waved before the Lord on the 16th day of the first month, which was always on the second day of the feast of unleavened bread.<<

I hate to sound so negative, but Josephus was a Pharisee reporting on the practices of his own kind; however, we all know about the ‘craziness’ of Josephus, don’t we?

Anyway, Josephus himself in Antiquities of the Jews wrote in two different books of two different time reckonings re the Pentecostal count.

>>The waving of the sheaf according to Leviticus 23 is always on the morrow after the Sabbath, the “Sabbath” mentioned being one of the “ceremonial” or “shadow” Sabbaths, not the Holy Seventh-day Sabbath, “the Sabbath of the Lord”, see Leviticus 23: 38, 39.<<

As you will have noted should you have read my posts is the fact that I concur with your assessments re the mo’eds of Leviticus 23 being Sabbaths.

>>Thus, the first day of the Feast of Unleavened Bread is always a “shadow” Sabbath, a prophecy in itself, of where the Holy Seventh-day Sabbath will occur in the year when the feasts, Passover, Feast of Unleavened Bread, and the Wave sheaf, were fulfilled.<<

That said, perhaps we should note that it is known that there have been (and presently still…) multiple ‘dates’ among the Jews and their co-religious cognates - as to when the Pentecostal count should begin. Moreover, the texts you’ve proffered utilize the Hebrew shabbath rather than the Hebraic shabua which would then have allowed an interpretation of seven weeks, as opposed to seven actual Seventh-day Sabbaths.

>>We must always remember that,

“What advantage then hath the Jew? or what profit [is there] of circumcision? Much every way: chiefly, because that unto them were committed the oracles of God.” Romans 3:1, 2<<

What may have been true at the time Romans was written may not necessarily obtain now. Much has evolved since.

Arthur Koestler, Jewish Historian, stated in his book The Thirteenth Tribe that more than 90% of today’s Jews are not of the tribal Jews of Biblical note.

Anyway, should the text Romans 3:1, 2 be proffered for immediate significance – one remembers that Gd promised David that there would always be an heir of his to sit upon his throne. Ain not many thrones left today – so by process of elimination we arrive at countries where Biblical ‘assemblies’ where Jews might be expected to be gathered - are held on the wrong day(s) – (or are they?) – or not at all – regardless oracles.

[Samie]

Besides the Bible and Spirit of Prophecy evidence, just ask a Jewish Orthodox rabbi and he will tell you that the wave-sheaf was always waved on the second day of the feast of unleavened bread, and that this was the practice ever since the time of Moses.

The first century Jewish historian, Josephus, also makes it very clear that the first-fruits of the barley harvest were always waved before the Lord on the 16th day of the first month, which was always on the second day of the feast of unleavened bread.

The waving of the sheaf according to Leviticus 23 is always on the morrow after the Sabbath, the “Sabbath” mentioned being one of the “ceremonial” or “shadow” Sabbaths, not the Holy Seventh-day Sabbath, “the Sabbath of the Lord”, see Leviticus 23: 38, 39. Thus, the first day of the Feast of Unleavened Bread is always a “shadow” Sabbath, a prophecy in itself, of where the Holy Seventh-day Sabbath will occur in the year when the feasts, Passover, Feast of Unleavened Bread, and the Wave sheaf, were fulfilled.

Pentecost is the fiftieth day from the waving of the sheaf offering on the morrow after the weekly Sabbath in a paschal week.

Leviticus 23:15-16 15 And ye shall count unto you from the morrow after the sabbath, from the day that ye brought the sheaf of the wave offering; seven sabbaths shall be complete: 16 Even unto the morrow after the seventh sabbath shall ye number fifty days; and ye shall offer a new meat offering unto the LORD.

It is clear as noonday that the "sabbath", the "seven sabbaths" and the "seventh sabbath" mentioned above all refer to the weekly sabbath, Saturday.

[Samie]

Originally Posted By: Samie

Pentecost is the fiftieth day from the waving of the sheaf offering on the morrow after the weekly Sabbath in a paschal week.

Leviticus 23:15-16 15 And ye shall count unto you from the morrow after the sabbath, from the day that ye brought the sheaf of the wave offering; seven sabbaths shall be complete: 16 Even unto the morrow after the seventh sabbath shall ye number fifty days; and ye shall offer a new meat offering unto the LORD.

It is clear as noonday that the "sabbath", the "seven sabbaths" and the "seventh sabbath" mentioned above all refer to the weekly sabbath, Saturday.

Re:

>>Pentecost is the fiftieth day from the waving of the sheaf offering on the morrow after the weekly Sabbath in a paschal week.<<

Not wrong ... FALSE!

[Samie]

Originally Posted By: Samie

Pentecost is the fiftieth day from the waving of the sheaf offering on the morrow after the weekly Sabbath in a paschal week.

No, _you_ bring Scripture!

Revelation 22:18, be warned, Samie!

[Samie]

Originally Posted By: Samie

Haven't you read in all your life Leviticus 23:15, 16 you seem not to know the 50 days regarding Pentecost?

And if you do, why ask me to bring Scripture as if you are so sure Scriptures speak of no such thing? Rev 22:19, be warned, brother!!!

Did you never know in all your life that in a passover feast, the feast of unleavened bread is involved and that in this week started by the eating of Passover meal, there are two ceremonial sabbaths and a weekly sabbath?

If you never knew, then, now you know, and the basis for your calling me a "liefie" is, sorry for the word, sheer ignorance of what Scriptures say.

You 'walk jackal's twists' we say in Boeretaal.

Let me speak plainly.

You ADDED the word and concept, "weekly": "on the morrow after the weekly Sabbath in a paschal week".

That makes it a lie, sir; and INVALIDATES every vanity that appeared from under your typing fingertips, sir.

Are you saying, the "sabbath" mentioned in Lev 23:15, 16 is not the weekly sabbath?

If your answer is Yes, then, you are either not well informed, or you intentionally tell a lie.

[Samie]

I suggest that you don't evade the issue.

In your understanding, is the sabbath mentioned in Lev 23:15, 16 the weekly sabbath or not?

I can provide biblical proof it is the weekly sabbath.

[Samie]

Originally Posted By: Samie

I suggest that you don't evade the issue.

In your understanding, is the sabbath mentioned in Lev 23:15, 16 the weekly sabbath or not?

I can provide biblical proof it is the weekly sabbath.

No Samie, I do not evade your question. Why should I, since you gave the answer yourself that 'the sabbath mentioned in Lev 23:15, 16', is NOT, and CANNOT except in instance of coincidence be, "the weekly sabbath".

Here is _your_ confirmation,

>>Did you never know in all your life that in a passover feast, the feast of unleavened bread is involved and that in this week started by the eating of Passover meal, there are two ceremonial sabbaths and a weekly sabbath?<<

Samie, _you_ say there are two 'sabbaths': one "ceremonial", "...and a weekly sabbath".

I only can agree, Samie.

Sorry, but you could have misread my post, brother. I was emphatic that the sabbath mentioned in Lev 23:15, 16 is the weekly sabbath, and NEVER a ceremonial sabbath.

[Samie]

Originally Posted By: Samie

Sorry, but you could have misread my post, brother. I was emphatic that the sabbath mentioned in Lev 23:15, 16 is the weekly sabbath, and NEVER a ceremonial sabbath.

Samie, do you or do you not say that there used to be and still are TWO 'sabbaths' in a week or any seven days for that matter, during passover-season?

If you say there are two 'sabbaths', then you contradict yourself that "the sabbath mentioned in Lev 23:15, 16 is the weekly sabbath, and NEVER a ceremonial sabbath."

[Samie]

Samie, tell me, the 'sabbaths' you refer to in your remark, "There is no record of any biblical account of 7 consecutive ceremonial sabbaths, hence, the 7 complete sabbaths in v15 and the 7th sabbath in v16 refers to the weekly sabbath" ... What is the Hebrew word for it, 'shabbath', or, 'shabua'?

[Samie]

Alright; and thanks that you replied.

Now ---asking ...

"The Hebrew word is "shabbath", NOT "shabua"."

... and in the LXX? What is the Greek equivalent?

Re:

"There is none."

That helps nobody with anything. It only confirms I was right that I said you contradict yourself.

The two things you claimed, cancel one another out so you end up with, "There is none." Your, Samie's, own verdict.

Are you implying I answered "There is none." to your question "... and in the LXX? What is the Greek equivalent? "?

My response "There is none" is in answer to your question whether there is Biblical record of 7 consecutive ceremonial sabbaths.

Again, there is no Biblical record of 7 consecutive ceremonial sabbaths. Therefore, the 7 consecutive sabbaths in Lev 23:15 and the 7th sabbath in v16 refer to the weekly sabbath.

[Samie]

WHAT DO YOU GAIN, BROTHER AND FRIEND, through rejecting the PLAIN BIBLICAL interpretation and accepting the Judaists' incidentally referenced Saddusaic interpretation? Do you further the cause of God’s Sabbath with the heresy Sunday worshippers have embraced for their own day of worship? I thought you believe God’s Seventh Day Sabbath?

I am not rejecting anything the Scripture says, brother. And that includes the fact that Christ rose from the grave early morning of the chief sabbath - Saturday (from the Greek "proi prote sabbatou" of Mk 16:9)

As New Light, this exposition brings into full view the Friday crucifixion myth coupled with the Sunday resurrection lie, both of which were perpetrated to favor Sunday-keeping.

[Samie]

As the risen one, Christ appeared to Mary early morning of the chief Sabbath, and that was Saturday, not Sunday.

[Samie]

proi is early morning.

protos is chief.

sabbatou refers to Sabbath, not week.

proi prote sabbatou is early morning of the chief Sabbath.

Chief sabbath because in that paschal week, there occurred both ceremonial and weekly sabbaths. Between a ceremonial sabbath and the weekly sabbath, the chief sabbath is undoubtedly the weekly sabbath, Saturday.

[Samie]

...it is absolutely clear Jesus did NOT ‘appear as He rose’

Jesus cannot appear to Mary unless He had first risen.

Since he appeared to Mary on proi prote sabbatou or early morning of the chief sabbath, then He rose earlier than when He appeared to Mary, proving He could not have risen Sunday.

For how could He have risen Sunday morning when He had already shown Himself to Mary early morning Saturday?

[Samie]

Same holds true against the theory of a late Saturday afternoon resurrection of the Lord.

[Samie]

...One, that _your_ "proi prote sabbatou" is not Mark's ''prohï prohtehi hemerai” = “on the First Day of the _week_” as before shown amply

There is no "hemerai" in Mark 16:9. You merely supplied it to suit your theory of a Thursday Crucifixion which is totally against Scriptures as I had shown previously.

"proi" or your "prohi" is early morning

"prote" or your "prohtehi" from "protos" is chief

"sabbatou" from "sabbaton" refers to Sabbath, not to week.

Therefore, as per Mk 16:9 Jesus rose from the grave early morning of the chief Sabbath, Saturday.

Not my words, brother. They are from Scriptures. Your all other resurrection verses only state that when some of the followers of the Lord came to the sepulcher they found an already empty tomb. That empty tomb proves He had already risen. But when? Mark 16:9 emphatically says "proi prote sabbatou" or early morning of the chief Sabbath.

[Samie]

Again for the nnnth time: Greeks merely borrowed "sabbaton" from the Hebrew "shabbath" which always refers to "Sabbath" and NEVER to "week".

See Acts 16:12, Gerhard, where 'protos' was translated into "chief".

[Samie]

Unluckily for Gerhard, John 20:1 says the coming of Mary to the sepulcher was on "mia twn sabbatwn" or on "one of the sabbaths".

And because Sunday was not a ceremonial sabbath in that paschal week (neither was it the weekly sabbath), it was not Sunday when Mary came to the sepulcher, but on the weekly Sabbath, exactly as Mark recorded that having risen, Christ appeared to Mary early morning of the chief sabbath.