JoeMo Posted October 14, 2012 Posted October 14, 2012 If you haven't seen this yet, it is an AMAZING article! It overwhelmed my and my wife to the point of tears. Check it out! http://www.thedailybeast.com/newsweek/20...-afterlife.html Quote
olger Posted October 14, 2012 Posted October 14, 2012 "I’m not the first person to have discovered evidence that consciousness exists beyond the body." Go slow.. Quote "Please don't feed the drama queens.."
JoeMo Posted October 15, 2012 Author Posted October 15, 2012 Ellen White saw evidence of heaven as well. In the latter days, people will dream dreams and see visions. If Jesus is coming soon (I believe it's VERY soon), it's time for dreams and visions. My own daughter has had visions of heaven twice in the past year. Not like this guy's visions - but visions, nonetheless. Quote
Lysimachus Posted October 15, 2012 Posted October 15, 2012 I don't believe that God would give a dream like this to someone who is not a Sabbath keeper. Quote ~Lysimachus (Marcos S.) Author of article, Vindicating the Year-Day Principle of Prophetic Interpretation (see attachment for article) Currently writing a book, Vindicating the Historical School of Prophetic Interpretation Founder of the largest and fastest SDA Apologetics Group on Facebook, Seventh-Day Adventism - Defending the Pillars of the Faith Writer and apologetics contributor at Adventist Defense League Vindicating the Year-Day Principle of Prophetic Interpretation.pdf
CoAspen Posted October 15, 2012 Posted October 15, 2012 Wow, so God is an exclusivist!!! Quote: I don't believe that God would give a dream like this to someone who is not a Sabbath keeper. Quote
SpiritualWarrior Posted October 15, 2012 Posted October 15, 2012 The Daily Beast? Not even worth my time to watch with a name chosen like that! If you want to see and hear awesome video sermons from Steven Bohr, Walter Veith, Doug Batchelor, Ivor Myers, and David Ascherick to name a few, go where I go to Which Day Is The Seventh Day Quote
JoeMo Posted October 15, 2012 Author Posted October 15, 2012 Yup: no matter how great your relationship with Jesus is - no matter how much He reaches out to you, if you ain't perfectly keeping the 7th day Sabbath, you're going straight to the lake of fire. Do not pass Go; do not collect $200. Only SDA's that have never missed a Sabbath will be in heaven . Give me a break! Quote
JoeMo Posted October 15, 2012 Author Posted October 15, 2012 We SDA's accuse people of only keeping 9 Commandments. That's 8 more than some SDA's are concerned about ... Quote
JoeMo Posted October 15, 2012 Author Posted October 15, 2012 SpiritualWarrior - The article is in NEWSWEEK. That's a legitimate news magazine. Maybe you've heard of it? Quote
Lysimachus Posted October 15, 2012 Posted October 15, 2012 Yup: no matter how great your relationship with Jesus is - no matter how much He reaches out to you, if you ain't perfectly keeping the 7th day Sabbath, you're going straight to the lake of fire. Do not pass Go; do not collect $200. Only SDA's that have never missed a Sabbath will be in heaven . Give me a break! This is a counterfeit dream this doctor had of heaven. He is a false prophet. I reject his dream as authentic. Read what John317 posted about the fact that one "can do no wrong" in heaven. Ellen White talks about how in the end of time, Satan will counterfeit God masterfully, making error "SOOO closely resembling the truth", but it will have just a tiny bit of poison in it to spoil the whole broth. Don't be deceived JoeMo! I'm warning you! Quote ~Lysimachus (Marcos S.) Author of article, Vindicating the Year-Day Principle of Prophetic Interpretation (see attachment for article) Currently writing a book, Vindicating the Historical School of Prophetic Interpretation Founder of the largest and fastest SDA Apologetics Group on Facebook, Seventh-Day Adventism - Defending the Pillars of the Faith Writer and apologetics contributor at Adventist Defense League Vindicating the Year-Day Principle of Prophetic Interpretation.pdf
Lysimachus Posted October 15, 2012 Posted October 15, 2012 Quote: Satan can present a counterfeit so closely resembling the truth that it deceives those who are willing to be deceived, who desire to shun the self-denial and sacrifice demanded by the truth; but it is impossible for him to hold under his power one soul who honestly desires, at whatever cost, to know the truth. Christ is the truth and the "Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world." John 1:9. The Spirit of truth has been sent to guide men into all truth. And upon the authority of the Son of God it is declared: "Seek, and ye shall find." "If any man will do His will, he shall know of the doctrine." Matthew 7:7; John 7:17. {GC 528.2} Quote ~Lysimachus (Marcos S.) Author of article, Vindicating the Year-Day Principle of Prophetic Interpretation (see attachment for article) Currently writing a book, Vindicating the Historical School of Prophetic Interpretation Founder of the largest and fastest SDA Apologetics Group on Facebook, Seventh-Day Adventism - Defending the Pillars of the Faith Writer and apologetics contributor at Adventist Defense League Vindicating the Year-Day Principle of Prophetic Interpretation.pdf
Lysimachus Posted October 15, 2012 Posted October 15, 2012 Quote: We may disguise poison by mingling it with wholesome food, but we do not change its nature. On the contrary, it is rendered more dangerous, as it is more likely to be taken unawares. It is one of Satan's devices to combine with falsehood just enough truth to give it plausibility. The leaders of the Sunday movement may advocate reforms which the people need, principles which are in harmony with the Bible; yet while there is with these a requirement which is contrary to God's law, His servants cannot unite with them. Nothing can justify them in setting aside the commandments of God for the precepts of men. {GC 587.1} Quote ~Lysimachus (Marcos S.) Author of article, Vindicating the Year-Day Principle of Prophetic Interpretation (see attachment for article) Currently writing a book, Vindicating the Historical School of Prophetic Interpretation Founder of the largest and fastest SDA Apologetics Group on Facebook, Seventh-Day Adventism - Defending the Pillars of the Faith Writer and apologetics contributor at Adventist Defense League Vindicating the Year-Day Principle of Prophetic Interpretation.pdf
Moderators Gerr Posted October 16, 2012 Moderators Posted October 16, 2012 I don't think EGW was a Sabbath-keeper when she first received her visions; neither did Foy. But the things brought out in the article seem to be a mixture of truth & error, which is the devil's mo. I will withhold judgment until I see where this man goes with this experience. Quote
Gibs Posted October 16, 2012 Posted October 16, 2012 I can neither appauld or condemn. Jesus we know was taken to the pinacle of the Temple and shown the granduer of this world and it'd be all His but Jesus didn't go for it. Many have near death visions and more and more all the time it seems. 1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world. Quote A Freeman In Jesus Christ
Gordon1 Posted October 16, 2012 Posted October 16, 2012 With the premise that God loves us supremely, and that none can be reconciled to Him without repentance & conversion, affirmative visions or dreams from Him would first address conversion for any given individual. It's a major reason the Ernie Knolls dreams were not credible. Quote
jasd Posted October 16, 2012 Posted October 16, 2012 >>I don't believe that God would give a dream like this to someone who is not a Sabbath keeper.<< Coupla things: was the anecdotal experience of the gentleman of question a “dream”? Perhaps I err, but being as it’s been awhile since reading the article – I missed the fact that it had been determined that his experience was no more than a dream. And, one might be cautioned in saying on the one hand, “I don't believe that God would give a dream like this to someone who is not a Sabbath keeper.” and then quoting from one ({GC 528.2} {GC 587.1}) who is religiously attended and who is purported to have received similar ‘dreams/visions’ whilst a non-Sabbathkeeper. Leaves one wonderin’ – schematic or schizoid? [/kidding] Always glad to see your posts. Really. Often to the point and often hued with, errr, …coloration. Quote
JoeMo Posted October 18, 2012 Author Posted October 18, 2012 Personal opinion: This was a legitimate vision. The man's cortex was "straight-lined (IOW, he was "brain dead" while he had this vision). I do not view it so much as an accurate vision of what heaven is like as much as a revelation from God that there is an afterlife. This guy did not talk about seeing his dead grandmother or cousin Ed; he spoke of a realm that was the essence of love, and the presence of spirit beings. I may read the book. As far as opinions that God would not give such a vision to someone who is not a Sabbath-Keeper - did God "reveal" this to you, or is this your opinion. In my opinion, God can do whatever He wants; and doesn't need our permission to do so. Put God in a box, and just see how long He stays in it for you! Quote
Moderators John317 Posted October 18, 2012 Moderators Posted October 18, 2012 I didn't see your original posting of this topic, so I posted the same topic the day after you did. http://clubadventist.com/forum/ubbthread...html#Post576954 I don't believe the evidence shows it's a genuine vision from God. Quote John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him.
Moderators John317 Posted October 18, 2012 Moderators Posted October 18, 2012 With the premise that God loves us supremely, and that none can be reconciled to Him without repentance & conversion, affirmative visions or dreams from Him would first address conversion for any given individual. It's a major reason the Ernie Knolls dreams were not credible. Excellent points. Gordon1. I agree. x10 Quote John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him.
Moderators John317 Posted October 18, 2012 Moderators Posted October 18, 2012 "I'm not the first person to have discovered evidence that consciousness exists beyond the body." Go slow.. And this: "Although I considered myself a faithful Christian, I was so more in name than in actual belief." So at the time of his experience, he wasn't really even a Christian. Also: "I experienced something so profound that it gave me a scientific reason to believe in consciousness after death." So is there really consciousness after death? Is he talking about the resurrection and the second coming? Is he talking about helping people prepare for the second coming? No. Instead, he is talking about the popular idea of "consciousness after death." Would God be a part of that? There is no consciousness after death. The Bible says the dead know nothing! Quote John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him.
JoeMo Posted October 18, 2012 Author Posted October 18, 2012 We can agree to disagree John. All I can say is that I was thoroughly blessed by the article - enough so to buy the book. Did any of you ever read "The Shack" by William P. Young? Do you consider that as much bovine excrement as some of you seem to consider this article? I LOVED "The Shack" enough to read it 3 times - cried every time. Quote
Moderators John317 Posted October 18, 2012 Moderators Posted October 18, 2012 Many have near death visions and more and more all the time it seems. And where is it leading? Are people learning to trust the Bible's statement that the dead do not know anything? Or are these "near death visions" persuading people to believe in the immortality of the soul and that people don't really die? I believe the evidence shows these experiences are actually preparing people to accept Satan's deceptions. Quote John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him.
JoeMo Posted October 18, 2012 Author Posted October 18, 2012 I never said I believe his INTERPRETAION of the vision was genuine; simply His DESCRIPTION of it. I agree that he has the "consciousness after death" part wrong. Just because God gave someone a vision doesn't mean he also gave them the interpreation. Daniel had to pray for interpretation of the visions he received. I don't know that John the Revelator or Ezekiel ever got interpretations of their visions. Visions is one spiritual gift; intperpretation is another. They don't necessarily come hand-in-hand. Quote
Moderators John317 Posted October 18, 2012 Moderators Posted October 18, 2012 Yes, I have "The Shack" and am reading it now, about 1/3 of the way through it. I'll post a review of it when I'm finished with it. Quote John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him.
olger Posted October 18, 2012 Posted October 18, 2012 In the Shack, the Trinity is reduced to giggling goodbuddies instead of the Godhead of the universe. If you like that sort of thing - have at it. Quote "Please don't feed the drama queens.."
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