Moderators John317 Posted October 18, 2012 Moderators Posted October 18, 2012 I don't think EGW was a Sabbath-keeper when she first received her visions; neither did Foy. God did not give visions and dreams through a prophet from the time of John the Revelator until 1844. He gave dreams and visions to EGW and commissioned her as His prophet because it was time for the raising up of the church that would keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus. Keeping the commandments of God and visions and dreams go together. About the time of John, the church as a whole began to fall into false doctrines, including Sunday worship. It would eventually lead to terrible persecution, the setting up of the papal system, and the Dark Ages. Quote John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him.
Moderators John317 Posted October 18, 2012 Moderators Posted October 18, 2012 JoeMoe, what do you think of the following quote from the article-- "...that dimension—in rough outline, the same one described by countless subjects of near-death experiences and other mystical states—is there. It exists, and what I saw and learned there has placed me quite literally in a new world: a world where we are much more than our brains and bodies, and where death is not the end of consciousness but rather a chapter in a vast, and incalculably positive, journey." Isn't that teaching the same old lie of Satan, that death is not the end of consciousness but instead death is a door into another and better world? Quote John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him.
BobRyan Posted October 19, 2012 Posted October 19, 2012 I don't believe that God would give a dream like this to someone who is not a Sabbath keeper. Well our first clue that this is not a vision from God is the reference to "multiverse". Martin Reese invented that idea to try and get out of the intelligent design problem for atheists. God does not "instruct" him in that dream about His Law or His second coming or the need to accept the Gospel or the problem of the upcoming latter Rain and close of probation, the great controversy context for all that is going on around us, the danger of going to the lake of fire if you continue on your present path - or even the need to "take time to study your Bible when you can". instead we have -- a spec, on a butterfly going out of the "multiverse". Sounds like a diversion. in Christ, Bob Quote John 8:32 - The Truth will make you free“The righteousness of Christ will not cover one cherished sin." COL 316.
Moderators Gerr Posted October 19, 2012 Moderators Posted October 19, 2012 Many things intended to deceive us will come, bearing some of the marks of truth. Just as soon as these shall be set forth as the great power of God, Satan is all ready to weave in that which he has prepared to lead souls from the truth for this time. {3SM 404.1} -Every conceivable message is coming to counterfeit the work of God, and always bearing the inscription of truth upon its banner. And those who are prepared for anything new and sensational, will handle these things in such a manner that our enemies will charge all that is inconsistent and overdone upon Mrs. E. G. White, the prophetess. . . . {3SM 404.3} There will be counterfeit messages coming from persons in all directions. One after another will rise up, appearing to be inspired, when they have not the inspiration of heaven, but are under the deception of the enemy. All who receive their messages will be led astray. Then let us walk carefully, and not open wide the door for the enemy to enter through impressions, dreams, and visions. God help us to look in faith to Jesus, and be 405 guided by the words He has spoken.--Letter 66, 1894. {3SM 404.4} Quote
JoeMo Posted October 19, 2012 Author Posted October 19, 2012 John, I guess I read it a little differently than you do. I indeed agree with his statement that: "death is not the end of consciousness but rather a chapter in a vast, and incalculably positive, journey." Death is not the end of the journey for those who receive the gift of eternal life. True, there is a "sleep" in there; but the journey continues, nonetheless. I can see a problem with him unequivicably stating that it is an incalculably positive journey; and I agree that it is not eternal for all. One thing I consider is that this man was at best a nominal Christian when he received this dream or vision. Time will tell whether or not this revelation (or "deception" as some may call it) will bear fruit. I did not read it or post it as doctrinally sound "new light". I was simply blessed by the clarity and conviction of it. Like most things I read by humans, I will eat the meat and spit out the bones. It's the same with "The Shack". I don't agree with every word in the book. Nonetheless, I was blessed and drawn closer to God by reading it. Closeness to God (relationship) is more important to me than being "right" (doctrine). I don't believe any of us has it completely "right". Quote
Lysimachus Posted October 19, 2012 Posted October 19, 2012 Many things intended to deceive us will come, bearing some of the marks of truth. Just as soon as these shall be set forth as the great power of God, Satan is all ready to weave in that which he has prepared to lead souls from the truth for this time. {3SM 404.1} -Every conceivable message is coming to counterfeit the work of God, and always bearing the inscription of truth upon its banner. And those who are prepared for anything new and sensational, will handle these things in such a manner that our enemies will charge all that is inconsistent and overdone upon Mrs. E. G. White, the prophetess. . . . {3SM 404.3} There will be counterfeit messages coming from persons in all directions. One after another will rise up, appearing to be inspired, when they have not the inspiration of heaven, but are under the deception of the enemy. All who receive their messages will be led astray. Then let us walk carefully, and not open wide the door for the enemy to enter through impressions, dreams, and visions. God help us to look in faith to Jesus, and be 405 guided by the words He has spoken.--Letter 66, 1894. {3SM 404.4} Powerful passages to add to my arsenal. Thank you! Quote ~Lysimachus (Marcos S.) Author of article, Vindicating the Year-Day Principle of Prophetic Interpretation (see attachment for article) Currently writing a book, Vindicating the Historical School of Prophetic Interpretation Founder of the largest and fastest SDA Apologetics Group on Facebook, Seventh-Day Adventism - Defending the Pillars of the Faith Writer and apologetics contributor at Adventist Defense League Vindicating the Year-Day Principle of Prophetic Interpretation.pdf
jasd Posted October 19, 2012 Posted October 19, 2012 >>So at the time of his experience, he wasn't really even a Christian.<< Deathbed conversion?—anyway, don’t you believe that Gd saves whomever He wishes? Was Elijah Xtian?—Moses?—Enoch?—Lazarus?—the firstfruits?... >>There is no consciousness after death. The Bible says the dead know nothing!<< Ain not that OT theology? Like, away and far off afore the crucifixion of Jesus Christ? Seems you’s sayin’ that the crucifixion and resurrection of Jesus Christ Gd had almost negligible immediate effect in the affairs of man or heaven… Anyway, should you have referenced Ecclesiastes, the premise of it was, "Under the sun." Quote
jasd Posted October 19, 2012 Posted October 19, 2012 >>About the time of John, the church as a whole began to fall into false doctrines, including Sunday worship.<< Regardless your opinion re "Sunday worship" - glad to now have you on record. Indeed, the earliest church began worshipping on Sunday. The question is - why? Weren't they being taught the Gospel by the very Apostles and those immediately following? Quote
jasd Posted October 19, 2012 Posted October 19, 2012 >>Powerful passages to add to my arsenal. Thank you!<< Here's one for you from 'Testimonies', paraphrased: "Better he keep his pants on when he goes to bed." This, re the husband of the pregnant woman with babe in arms. Oh, and scripture states: 'there is no sin in the marriage bed'. And, 'children are Gd's blessings'. And, 'Blessed is the man whose quiver is full of them' (a quiver holds 13 arrows). [...] Quote
jasd Posted October 19, 2012 Posted October 19, 2012 >>Well our first clue that this is not a vision from God is the reference to "multiverse".<< Well, multiverse or multidimensional – Elisha’s servant needed only to have the shadow of his eyes shifted to see the angels and their chariots encamped upon the surrounding hills. Like, as elsewhere stated, “…Kingdom of Gd is within/midst of you”. A shadow is a very slight thing! Lisa Randall, the first tenured woman in the Princeton Univerity physics department and the first tenured female theoretical physicist at both MIT and Harvard University, posits that we are removed or separated from another dimension in measurements that may not exceed the extreme fractions of a centimeter. [/extemporizing] Those conditions may indicate that one requires only the ‘sloughing’ of the corporeal body by the smallest degree… to apprehend another ‘dimension’. >>God does not "instruct" him in that dream about His Law or His second coming or the need to accept the Gospel or the problem of the upcoming latter Rain and close of probation, the great controversy context…<< Are the above legitimate litmuses? We have no indication that the Thief on the cross had any instructions of any sort, either. He seemed only to have been impressed. Gd does as He wishes. Quote
Moderators John317 Posted October 20, 2012 Moderators Posted October 20, 2012 John,I guess I read it a little differently than you do. I indeed agree with his statement that: "death is not the end of consciousness but rather a chapter in a vast, and incalculably positive, journey." Death is not the end of the journey for those who receive the gift of eternal life. True, there is a "sleep" in there; but the journey continues, nonetheless. I can see a problem with him unequivicably stating that it is an incalculably positive journey; and I agree that it is not eternal for all. OK, but that is not what his words mean and it isn't how people are going to read them. What they mean is that the dead go immediately on a positive journey. There's absolutely no mention of the Second Coming. Why? Because death is not the end of consciousness. He leaves the distinct impression that people go immediately to heaven when they die. He makes no distinction between the righteous and the wicked. Quote John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him.
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