Is God Responsible for the Killings?

[phkrause]

Unfortunately there have been many similar cases. Some time ago a man broke into a home and was injured by the broken glass. He sued the homeowner for damages. Our society is sick, and some judges should have chosen another profession!

LOL, but its not funny is it? I definitely agree, our society is very sick and don't even realize it.

[Bravus]

Originally Posted By: Bravus

Whether or not guns help stop guns is kind of off topic, isn't it? Thread is about God's role. On which, if God could have prevented it and didn't, why not?

Certainly Huckabee's 'pushing God out of the schools' makes no sense - if God is omnipresent, he's in the school.

An omnipotent, omnipresent God *is* responsible for what happened, in my view.

The question is what you do with that.

Being Omnipotent, God could prevent all evil deeds and every evil thought from taking place. He could obliterate all evil actions the moment such thought enter the mind of human beings.

We would be robots, and the Devil would have strong arguments proving that God is arbitrary and that he is a despot who will not grant human beings the freedom to exercise their right to choose between good and evil.

We would be simply puppets in the hands of a mighty being. All our choices and decisions would be made by such a God. Is this the kind of God you would like to have?

The alternative, though, is a God who does nothing. What's the point of that God? May as well not be there at all, if he never does anything anyway for fear of taking away freedom of choice.

It's not a coherent perspective.

[JoeMo]

Quote:

The alternative, though, is a God who does nothing. What's the point of that God? May as well not be there at all, if he never does anything anyway for fear of taking away freedom of choice.

It's not a coherent perspective.

God doesn't do "nothing". Things could always be worse. In the case of both the Aurora and CT shootings, the shooter's guns jammed. In the case of Columbine, none of the bombs set by the killers detonated.

When Job asked God why are these things happening to me?", God essentially answered him "None of your business. Who are you to question what I do or don't do?"

You may ask "what is God doing, then? Why does he allow bad stuff to happen to good people?" My answer - "I don't know; but He's God and I'm not; so it's probably none of my business"

In Psalm 73 David asked the same questions. He said He got His answer when he went into God's sanctuary. He doesn't explain what God showed him; but it was enough to convince David that the wicked will eventually receive what's coming to them.

What blows my mind is that, if they repent, what's coming to them is eternal life in the Kingdom. That's a tough one to explain.

[Woody]

Originally Posted By: Woody

Actually - more than God being responsible for the killings - I have to wonder if the fact that the killers mom was unemployed ... might be a factor.

If she was unemployed, this means she had more time to be with her children. Is this a disadvantage?

In this case it was. She is the one who taught the killer to shoot a gun. She had the right motive in that she felt it would help to bond with him. But she just chose the wrong activity to accomplish that.

[LifeHiscost]

Quote:

#589535 - 15/12/2012 13:44

God blesses!

[LifeHiscost]

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Now, what kind of problems have I had in life? Funny, can't remember a single one.

Maybe I have some coming up. I cannot fathom nor see any as horrendous, through my tears.

God blesses!

[LifeHiscost]

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How much collateral damage of one's neighbors should a Christian accept?

Everyone's except my child, or wife or home. How about your's.

God blesses!

[7daysadventist]

I just stumbled upon this thread. I have just read every post.

I am proud of every one who has taken the time to candidly comment. I've noticed the comments range from anger to love. That's just what I would expect.

The emotions contained within are also many of the same emotions felt and expressed in the city of Newtown, across New England, the US and the World.

I don't have any quick solutions or cliche words of comfort to offer. I won't speculate on the reason why the killer did this. I will not offer knee-jerk suggestions about stiffening God control laws (since when do criminals follow the rules?). Most importantly, I will NOT blame the all-knowing, all-powerful and all-loving God of this universe. There are some things I just don't understand...now

[LifeHiscost]

Quote:

How much collateral damage did God allow for when He wiped out people?

"The thief does not come except to steal, and to kill, and to destroy. I have come that they may have life, and that they may have it more abundantly."John 10:10 NKJV

To see Jesus or His Father as a killer, is to extinguish any hope one might have for the future.

"Jesus said to them, “If God were your Father, you would love Me, for I proceeded forth and came from God; nor have I come of Myself, but He sent Me. Why do you not understand My speech? Because you are not able to listen to My word. You are of your father the devil, and the desires of your father you want to do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and does not stand in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaks a lie, he speaks from his own resources, for he is a liar and the father of it. But because I tell the truth, you do not believe Me. "

John 8:42-45 NKJV

God blesses!

[LifeHiscost]

Quote:

We may not always be in control of or responsible for our circumstances; but we are always in control of how we respond to them.

Ahh! responsibility, a gift that comes with independence. When one believes everyone else is responsible for their "feeling good", it is difficult to accept personal responsibility.

God blesses!

[JoeMo]

I was talking to my daughter about this and she brought up a great point. There is only one Person in history who God has ever forsaken - and that was His own Son, Jesus Christ. He made Jesus sin for us; and allowed Jesus - God Himself as well as the Son of God - to take the penalty that we deserve so that we could have the glory that only He deserves. The worst (and best) thing that ever happened in history was the death of God's Son. If God would allow men to kill His own Son, why are we surprised that He would allow the shootings in CT, or Aurora, or WW2, or the holocaust, or the Spanish Flu, or the black plague?

How do you feel knowing that Jesus also died for the evil people that did these horrendous crimes? If people that do things like this repent and turn to Christ, they will be with us in the Kingdom. I confess here and now that they are lucky that I am not God.

On the other hand, when God is so much holier and good than we are, what makes us think that we are so much better than they are when we compare ourselves to God? All of our righteousness is as filthy rags. How much filthier are the rags of these evil people than our own? Let's not fool ourselves into self-righteousness or being indignant towards God about sin in this world. It's only gonna get worse for the ungodly; let's not make it worse for ourselves. We are children of God; so look up; cuz our redemption draweth nigh.

[phkrause]

God doesn't do "nothing". Things could always be worse. In the case of both the Aurora and CT shootings, the shooter's guns jammed. In the case of Columbine, none of the bombs set by the killers detonated.

When Job asked God why are these things happening to me?", God essentially answered him "None of your business. Who are you to question what I do or don't do?"

You may ask "what is God doing, then? Why does he allow bad stuff to happen to good people?" My answer - "I don't know; but He's God and I'm not; so it's probably none of my business"

In Psalm 73 David asked the same questions. He said He got His answer when he went into God's sanctuary. He doesn't explain what God showed him; but it was enough to convince David that the wicked will eventually receive what's coming to them.

What blows my mind is that, if they repent, what's coming to them is eternal life in the Kingdom. That's a tough one to explain.

[CoAspen]

I could give a lot of 'pat' SDA answers, but they don't really give us a reason. How do you tell a grieving parent whose 6/7 yo child has just been murdered that God really care for them but HE just had to allow it to happen because of sin, choice or whatever? If it happened to me, I might just give up on believing in such a God. I don't believe we really have the answer to the question because all the answers I have heard or learned just do not give me a really good view of God.

Any one have a fresh approach to this conundrum?

[debbym]

weep with those who weep, and be one who reveals the One who is there with us and for us, regardless of what we are enduring.

Hold them up... in prayer, in what you communicate, in what you do, in what you are, if you are God's he is able to work with you and through you to bless the bereaved.

God suffers with the suffering and brings healing in his time.

i don't think those in such pain need anyone to offer them intellectual answers at this time. those a bit further away, do we need these answers as we lose a bit of our sense of safety, and our fears are aroused to whatever whatever suffering may come to us randomly next?

God is so with these suffering people to help them through this. His name is Emanuel...

debjm

[LifeHiscost]

Quote:

The alternative, though, is a God who does nothing. What's the point of that God? May as well not be there at all, if he never does anything anyway for fear of taking away freedom of choice.

It's not a coherent perspective.

The fact is that those who voluntarily allow God to call the shots in their lives, will get the fullness of freedom of choice, without the often terrible results of those who exploit others around them who at this time also having freedom of choice and choose to exploit. Jesus is only waiting for the last person who will, to take advantage of that offer given by Him to accept His life, the best reason I know to spread the gospel message as quickly as possible.

In the end we all will bow the knee to Him, some because they will have found they cannot dispute His righteousness, others who do not wish to dispute it. Those who endure unselfishly have this promise.

"Being found in appearance as a man, He humbled Himself by becoming obedient to the point of death, even death on a cross. For this reason also, God highly exalted Him, and bestowed on Him the name which is above every name, so that at the name of Jesus every knee will bow, of those who are in heaven and on earth and under the earth, and that every tongue will confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father."

Philippians 2:8-11 NASB

And for the ones who are willing to trust the Person Who created them, there remains this promise.

" Whatever you devise against the Lord,

He will make a complete end of it.

Distress (affliction NKJV) will not rise up twice."Nahum 1:9 NASB

God blesses!

[LifeHiscost]

Quote:

What blows my mind is that, if they repent, what's coming to them is eternal life in the Kingdom. That's a tough one to explain.

The same thing happens to anyone who repents and accepts Jesus (Life).

"Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; old things have passed away; behold, all things have become new."2 Corinthians 5:16 NKJV

God blesses!

[Nic Samojluk]

The alternative, though, is a God who does nothing. What's the point of that God? May as well not be there at all, if he never does anything anyway for fear of taking away freedom of choice.

It's not a coherent perspective.

Yes, the alternative makes no sense. If anyone is tempted to consider such an alternative, he/she should read the Bible. The evidence seems to be quite clear that God has been active in history. Of course, his preferred modus operandus has been by persuasion instead of force.

Jesus described God as a merciful Father, and a merciful father will always use force as a last resort. He will use love and persuasion and only resort to force when everything else has failed to yield the desired objective.

[Nic Samojluk]

In this case it was. She is the one who taught the killer to shoot a gun. She had the right motive in that she felt it would help to bond with him. But she just chose the wrong activity to accomplish that.

Yes, and he did like violent video games. Besides, neither the mother nor the son felt a need to engage in a useful employment. Of Sodom it was said that the problem was the abundance of bread.

This woman's alimony was $ 24,000 a month. This amount is what some families receive in a year.

[Nic Samojluk]

I won't speculate on the reason why the killer did this. I will not offer knee-jerk suggestions about stiffening God control laws (since when do criminals follow the rules?).

Good point! Now, regarding gun control, I have a hard time figuring out why high powered rifles are available to the public. Do I really need a gun which can shoot 30 bullets in 15 seconds for self defense?

What would have been the outcome if this deranged individual had access only to a regular gun which shoots one bullet every time you pull the trigger? Would he have been able to kill 26 innocent human beings in a couple of minutes?

I agree that guns don't kill people. Murderers do the killing, but shouldn't society make it extremely difficult for crazy and evil people to kill so many in such a short time?

[Nic Samojluk]

Quote:

How much collateral damage did God allow for when He wiped out people?

"The thief does not come except to steal, and to kill, and to destroy. I have come that they may have life, and that they may have it more abundantly."John 10:10 NKJV

To see Jesus or His Father as a killer, is to extinguish any hope one might have for the future.

"Jesus said to them, “If God were your Father, you would love Me, for I proceeded forth and came from God; nor have I come of Myself, but He sent Me. Why do you not understand My speech? Because you are not able to listen to My word. You are of your father the devil, and the desires of your father you want to do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and does not stand in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaks a lie, he speaks from his own resources, for he is a liar and the father of it. But because I tell the truth, you do not believe Me. "

John 8:42-45 NKJV

God blesses!

Thanks for reminding us of those texts!

[Nic Samojluk]

If God would allow men to kill His own Son, why are we surprised that He would allow the shootings in CT, or Aurora, or WW2, or the holocaust, or the Spanish Flu, or the black plague? ...

I confess here and now that they are lucky that I am not God.

You must have a very smart daughter!

You are quite right. The world is very lucky that neither you nor I are God.

[Nic Samojluk]

If it happened to me, I might just give up on believing in such a God.

True! Nevertheless, God does strengthen our faith when we need it the most. When my 20 year old daughter was killed in a car accident, I thought this was beyond what I could endure. The Lord came to my rescue, and my faith in him got stronger.

Then, a few years later my 51 year old son died suddenly as a result of a massive stroke. My faith was tested beyond anything I could have imagined.

I was tempted to doubt, but I figured that if God did not come to the rescue of his Only Son in his time of need, why should I demand of him more protection than the one he provided to his Son?

Didn't Jesus say that we must take our cross and follow him? My cross is very heavy, and there is not a day when I stop thinking about the two children I lost.

Nevertheless, the hope of seeing them again on resurrection day fills my heart with hope and expectation I would have never imagined possible.

I try to do as much good as I can within my limitations, and the day the Lord call me to his home it will be a day of joy instead of a day of sadness, because the next thing I will experience will be seeing my children again.

[phkrause]

I agree that guns don't kill people. Murderers do the killing, but shouldn't society make it extremely difficult for crazy and evil people to kill so many in such a short time?

Exactly Nic, and as many newscasters have been asking, and so should all, why the need to purchase "assault weapons?" And as I've asked why and how did he get a hold of these weapons? If they were put away and locked up he would've had to purchase these weapons, and maybe not have such easy access to them. No one knows for sure. Just heard that he had been planning this, so all this talk of him just waking up and going on a killing spree because of mental problems has been ruled out, at least for the time being.

[Bravus]

Claims are made about what God does. When God does not do those things, the response is 'shut up, how dare you question God!'

If questioning the claims (which is not questioning God) is impossible because God's ways are inscrutable, then *making* the claims is also impossible because God's ways are inscrutable.

If we must simply shut up and let God be God, then perhaps y'all could be getting on with that...

[Woody]

good comments Bravus