260 Clergy In Illinois Support For Gay Marriage

[John317]

Illinois Clergy Members Support Same-Sex Marriage in Letter Signed by 260

By MAGGIE ASTOR

Published: December 23, 2012

More than 250 religious leaders in Illinois have signed an open letter in support of same-sex marriage, which the legislature is likely to take up in January.

Seth Perlman/Associated Press

State Senator Heather A. Steans and another legislator plan to introduce the Religious Freedom and Marriage Fairness Act.

“We dedicate our lives to fostering faith and compassion, and we work daily to promote justice and fairness for all,” the leaders wrote in the letter, which was released Sunday. “Standing on these beliefs, we think that it is morally just to grant equal opportunities and responsibilities to loving, committed same-sex couples.

“There can be no justification,” they continued, “for the law treating people differently on the basis of sexual orientation or gender identity.”

This is not the first time members of the clergy have endorsed same-sex marriage, but the public nature of the letter and the number of signatures made it an especially strong statement.

The timing is also significant: State Senator Heather A. Steans and State Representative Greg Harris, both Democrats, plan to introduce a bill next month to legalize same-sex marriage. Ms. Steans said they would not put the legislation, the Religious Freedom and Marriage Fairness Act, up for a vote unless they were confident it would pass. She added that the Senate, at least, was “definitely within striking distance” of the 30 votes needed for passage and that she hoped the letter would help persuade undecided legislators to support the bill.

Many of the 260 Christian and Jewish leaders who signed the letter said they had long supported same-sex marriage and were excited to make their views more public.

“It’s not a religious right — it’s a civil right,” said the Rev. Kevin E. Tindell, a United Church of Christ minister at New Dimensions Chicago. “It’s a matter of justice, and so as a Christian, as a citizen, I feel that it’s my duty.” Mr. Tindell, who is gay, is raising three children with his partner of 17 years.

The Rev. Kim L. Beckmann of the Evangelical Lutheran Church in America, who lives in the Chicago area, said she was drawn into the movement “as my gay and lesbian parishioners were welcomed into our congregation.”

“I have participated in blessings of these unions for longer than we’ve even been talking about marriage,” she said. “I’m thrilled to take this step.”

Laurie Higgins, cultural analyst for the Illinois Family Institute, which opposes same-sex marriage, criticized the branding of the issue as a matter of “equality” and “inclusion.”

“All adults, regardless of their sexual proclivities, are entitled to participate in the sexually complementary institution of marriage,” she wrote in an e-mail. “Those who identify as homosexual choose not to participate in it.”

The letter, Ms. Higgins said, “is signed quite obviously by faith leaders who have adopted radical, ahistorical, heretical theological views.”

“Their views are informed not by careful exegesis, but by personal desire and political convictions,” she said.

Signatories of the letter said one of their motivations was to challenge the assumption that religion went hand in hand with opposition to same-sex marriage.

The Rev. Kara Wagner Sherer of St. John’s Episcopal Church in Chicago said it was a way for religious leaders to say, “I’m a faithful Christian or a Jew or Muslim, and I think that marriage equality is important.”

“It doesn’t have to be a faith issue,” she said. “We understand our Scripture in a different way.”

The Episcopal Church endorsed same-sex marriage in July. Other denominations, including the Presbyterian Church (U.S.A.) and the Roman Catholic Church, have reaffirmed their opposition.

Ms. Steans said she and Mr. Harris had been careful to ensure that the Illinois legislation would protect religious freedom. Under the proposed law, she said, “no faith has to solemnize a marriage they don’t want to.”

She added, though, that she had long believed that many religious leaders would like to conduct same-sex marriages, and that with the release of the letter, it was “very heartening to see that that will be the case.”

Ms. Beckmann, the Lutheran minister, also cited the leeway for denominations and congregations to choose whether to ordain same-sex marriages.

[John317]

There's nothing in the news article about the biblical reason for the clergy's decision to support same-sex marriage. It does speak of "justice," "fairness," and "equality," but it doesn't show the biblical connection between justice and gay marriage.

The Rev. Kara Wagner Sherer of St. John’s Episcopal Church in Chicago said, “It doesn’t have to be a faith issue. We understand our Scripture in a different way.”

[Windsor]

"Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils." 1 Timothy 4:1

[Robert]

Romans 1:18 The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against all the godlessness and wickedness of men who suppress the truth by their wickedness, 19 since what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them. 20 For since the creation of the world God's invisible qualities--his eternal power and divine nature--have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that men are without excuse. 21 For although they knew God, they neither glorified him as God nor gave thanks to him, but their thinking became futile and their foolish hearts were darkened. 22 Although they claimed to be wise, they became fools 23 and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images made to look like mortal man and birds and animals and reptiles. 24 Therefore God gave them over (gave them up) in the sinful desires of their hearts to sexual impurity for the degrading of their bodies with one another. 25 They exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and worshiped and served created things rather than the Creator--who is forever praised. Amen. 26 Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural relations for unnatural ones. 27 In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed indecent acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their perversion. 28 Furthermore, since they did not think it worthwhile to retain the knowledge of God, he gave them over to a depraved mind, to do what ought not to be done. 29 They have become filled with every kind of wickedness, evil, greed and depravity. They are full of envy, murder, strife, deceit and malice. They are gossips, 30 slanderers, God-haters, insolent, arrogant and boastful; they invent ways of doing evil; they disobey their parents; 31 they are senseless, faithless, heartless, ruthless. 32 Although they know God's righteous decree that those who do such things deserve death, they not only continue to do these very things but also approve of those who practice them.

Notice these sins are the result of ungodliness - refusing God to be a part of your life. Look at verses 21 & 28

[Robert]

Jude 1:7 Sodom and Gomorrah, and the cities around them in a similar manner to these, having given themselves over to sexual immorality and gone after strange flesh (one's own sex), are set forth as an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.

God abandoned those cities because, as Romans states, "For although they knew God, they neither glorified him as God nor gave thanks to him, but their thinking became futile and their foolish hearts (minds) were darkened."

[Gerr]

ESV | ‎Re 18:2 “Fallen, fallen is Babylon the great! She has become a dwelling place for demons, a haunt for every unclean spirit, a haunt for every unclean bird, a haunt for every unclean and detestable beast.

[Windsor]

ESV | ‎Re 18:2 “Fallen, fallen is Babylon the great! She has become a dwelling place for demons, a haunt for every unclean spirit, a haunt for every unclean bird, a haunt for every unclean and detestable beast.

The daughters of Babylon and perhaps Babylon itself secretly. The pope, however, recently came out against gay marriage and received a whooping in the liberal press as a result. This is one of those points that Protestants (save for those in certain denominations as above) and Catholics will unite upon.

[HopefulOne]

I was watching the local news and could not believe my ears when i heard this.260 clergy support gay marrage!? What are these people thinking. Obviously they have no reguard for the King James Bible.

Makes me want to move out of Illinois but i think on a national level it will be passed by the supreme court.

[LynnDel]

When leaving Illinois, you could always come to any west coast state -- and feel right at home with what you just left.

LD

[HopefulOne]

yes LynnDel i know what you mean. I just wonder what judgment is going to be unleashed on us now.Look at new Orleans and just recently new jersey both hit with hurricanes and new jersey just this year made gay marriage legal.

Exactly 7 years after Katrina new orleans being unrepentant gets hit again on the same day they have their gay pride celebration.

The supreme court is going to look into the gay marriage issue and president obama is now very accepting of the gay marriage.

[Windsor]

I was watching the local news and could not believe my ears when i heard this.260 clergy support gay marrage!? What are these people thinking. Obviously they have no reguard for the King James Bible.

Makes me want to move out of Illinois but i think on a national level it will be passed by the supreme court.

Are you implying there are some Bible versions supportive of gay marriage?

[HopefulOne]

windsor your question is silly. I imply no such thing.

Also i will not be drawn into any debate about which bible i have or you have.

[M. T. Cross]

Funny, Vancouver has a HUGE gay community as does Toronto, both have gay pride parades every year, gay marriage is legal here in B.C. (not sure about Ontario) and yet your God has not unleashed his wrath for that on us yet. Must be an American thing......

[phkrause]

yes LynnDel i know what you mean. I just wonder what judgment is going to be unleashed on us now.Look at new Orleans and just recently new jersey both hit with hurricanes and new jersey just this year made gay marriage legal.

Exactly 7 years after Katrina new orleans being unrepentant gets hit again on the same day they have their gay pride celebration.

The supreme court is going to look into the gay marriage issue and president obama is now very accepting of the gay marriage.

You don't actually believe that do you? That God dishes out punishment that way?

[Windsor]

windsor your question is silly. I imply no such thing.

Also i will not be drawn into any debate about which bible i have or you have.

Well I believe you were the one who decided to bring up a particular Bible version.

[HopefulOne]

Signs of a most startling character appear, in floods, in hurricanes, in tornadoes, in cloud-bursts, in casualties by land and by sea, that proclaim the approach of the end of all things. The judgments of God are falling on the world, that men may be awakened to the fact that Christ will come speedily. The Lord is about to reveal the difference between the righteous and the wicked; for his "fan is in his hand, and he will thoroughly purge his floor, and gather his wheat into his garner; but he will burn up the chaff with unquenchable fire." {RH, November 8, 1892 par. 6

[Gregory Matthews]

Quote:

It’s not a religious right — it’s a civil right,” said the Rev. Kevin E. Tindell, a United Church of Christ minister at New Dimensions Chicago. “It’s a matter of justice, . . .

Let me establish a couple of points which I believe:

1) The practice of homosexuality is a sin.

2) The Bible teaches that the practice of homosexuality is a sin.

3) As a clerglyperson, the State cannot compel me to perform the marriages of two practicing homosexuals.

4) Regardless of any civil law, I will continue to refuse to perform the marriage of two practicing homosexuals.

5) Gender orientation is not the result of individual choice.

6) Sexual practice is a result of individual choice--outside of rape.

Within the context that I have stated above, is it not possible that homosexual unions are a civil right?

[HopefulOne]

Greg correct me if i am wrong ,but any church that is

registered as 501C3 tax exempt is a government

entity now.I believe they would suffer great consequences

if they defied the government ruling making gay marriage legal.

[Gregory Matthews]

Hopeful:

Thank you for your question and I am glad to clairfy:

NOTE: My comments below apply to the United States. I am not informed about other nations.

1) The granting of 501C3 status to an organization by the IRS does NOT make that organization a government entity. All that it does is to establish the potential tax liability that the organizaiton may or may not have. Yes, to maintain that level of tax liability, the organization must comply with any requirements. The organization can chose to give up that tax status and apply for another classificaiton, which may also be tax exempt or limited.

2) Under the provisions of the 1st Ammendment, as defined by a number of rulings of the courts, up to the U.S. Supreme Court, the government cannot evaulate the religious beliefs to churches to any extent. This has been affirmened numerous times in Federal and State Courts on all levels. As applied to the SDA denomination, by a State Court, I am reminded of the Odenthal case which clearly established that the litigation in process could not involve the religious beliefs of the defendents.

3) The rite of marriage is commonly considered a sacrament by a number of religious denominations in the U.S. As the 1st Ammendment has been intrepreted by the Courts, they can not compel denominational clergy to administer a sacrament, or to refrain from administering a sacrament in any manner. Therefore, there is a basic 1st Ammendment right of clergy to refuse to perform marriages for any reason, of which the Court cannot inquire.

4) I have served for 37 years as a Federal Chaplain, endorsed by the SDA denomination and employed by the Federal (U.S.) government. I have refused, on occasion, to perform the marriage of a couple who requested such--within the past 10 days for example. Complaints have been filed against me and in every case I have been upheld. The Federal government cannot require me to perform the Sacrament of Marraige against my will and I am not required to give a reason.

5) Note: As a Federal chaplain for 37 years, endorsed by the SDA denominaiton, under the law, I cannot be hired by the Federal government without the permission of the SDA Church and the SDA church has the legal right to terminate my employment as a Federal chaplain with out giving any reason. So, I remain employed and credentialed, only as long as the NAD/GC wish for me to remain employed.

[Gerr]

Greg, good to hear from you again.

[Gregory Matthews]

Thank you. At the time that I left, that was the right thing to do.

But, I am back again.

[JoeMo]

Quote:

Funny, Vancouver has a HUGE gay community as does Toronto, both have gay pride parades every year, gay marriage is legal here in B.C. (not sure about Ontario) and yet your God has not unleashed his wrath for that on us yet. Must be an American thing

MT,

I don't think it's necessarily an American thing as much as it is a legalism thing amontg those who fear God as an arbitrary overseer and slave-maker. Those of us who view God as a loving Father know better. While I don't personally practice nor endorse the practice of homosexuality, neither do I condemn those who are gay - practicing or non-practicing. They are no more broken that most people. Most of us have issues with various sins and temptations. Being LGBT is just more socially unacceptable than lying, cheating on your income tax, and adultery; so people "pick" on them more.

As for God punishing us, I refuse to look at God as a child abuser. He's not looking to beat us into submission as those who submit to God out of Abject fear would have us believe; God our Father seeks our love; just as we seek the love of our own children and accept them just as they are. My kids would have to be pretty bad for me to disown them.

[Gibs]

We are His Witnesses, we are to warn the sinner of his wicked way, or his blood will be on your hands. Sin is sin and must be called by it's right name!

1Co 6:9 ¶ Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,

1Co 6:10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.

All will bow the knee in the end and acknowledge He is righteous true and just in His judgement of ourselves and all others.

Obedience deprives none or no one of anything unless they want to choose death and that will be their purchase, eternal death, not just the sleep to resurrection 1 or 2 and those of 2 will meet the real death, eternal no more to be, gone for good.

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[HopefulOne]

The judgments of God are falling on the world, that men may be awakened to the fact that Christ will come speedily. The Lord is about to reveal the difference between the righteous and the wicked; for his "fan is in his hand, and he will thoroughly purge his floor, and gather his wheat into his garner; but he will burn up the chaff with unquenchable fire." {RH, November 8, 1892 par. 6}

The Lord delights in mercy; and for the sake of a few who really serve him, he restrains calamities, and prolongs the tranquillity of multitudes. Little do sinners against God realize that they are indebted for their own lives to the faithful few whom they delight to ridicule and oppress. {4SP 448.1 1884}

[HopefulOne]

Has the 7,th seal been open yet?? Most would say no,we are between the 6,th and 7,th seal. It seems a certain amount of time passes with each seal so when the 7,th seal is open does Jesus come right away or do certain events take place first?

And when he had opened the seventh seal, there was silence in heaven about the space of half an hour. And I saw the seven angels which stood before God; and to them were given seven trumpets.

Rev 8:1-2 (KJV)

http://www.theupperroomministry.com/Sermons/J.%20Reynolds%20Hoffman/57%20The%20Seven%20Trumpets.mp3

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