Guns Don't Kill People — Our Sons Do

[Bravus]

I guess to some extent it does, but it's ironic that it's OzarkWoman making the claim about people not speaking based on the facts when she's the one who sarcastically called all statistics (facts) into question.

[Bravus]

I'm certainly not one to minimise crimes against women, but 'rape' and 'sexual assault' are *not* synonyms in Australia. Nowhere near. Both 'flashing' and 'groping' would come under that term. Let's compare (horrific, shouldn't happen) apples with apples...

I don't have time right now to rebut all those stories one by one, but perhaps later today once some work is pushed aside.

"Seek the truth, no matter where it lies..." - Metallica said that.

[Johann]

At the beginning of World War II thousands of young allied soldiers came to Iceland to protect this country from a Nazi invasion.

Unfortunately these fighting young soldiers did not protect the youth from themselves and their sex drive. Young boys were victims of their crimes, many marked for life.

These soldiers who fought for their country have often been honored for their bravery without mention of the damage done to innocent children.

[bonnie]

At the beginning of World War II thousands of young allied soldiers came to Iceland to protect this country from a Nazi invasion.

Unfortunately these fighting young soldiers did not protect the youth from themselves and their sex drive. Young boys were victims of their crimes, many marked for life.

These soldiers who fought for their country have often been honored for their bravery without mention of the damage done to innocent children.

This would have what to do with the topic? If in fact US soldiers did in fact rape the young boys of Iceland

[LifeHiscost]

Dear Bonnie, I appreciate your fervor and decidedly knowledgeable answers, agreeing with many of them, but wonder at whether your determination to prove yourself right isn't working against your peace of mind. This, of course is somewhat off the topic but it does seem we can be assured politicians and human efforts are never going to solve our joint problems until man in general has a heart for his/her neighbor before him/herself.

Since it is acknowledged my post is perhaps totally unacceptable insofar as the subject of this thread is concerned, perhaps you can get it moved to one I couldn't find for more appropriate posting. God bless!

Quote:

Subject: FW: Some Observations

TOP 10 "ONLY IN AMERICA " OBSERVATIONS -- BY A CANADIAN*

1) Only in America could the rich people - who pay 86% of all income taxes - be accused of not paying their "fair share" by people who don't pay any income taxes at all.

2) Only in America could people claim that the government still discriminates against black Americans when they have a black President, a black Attorney General, and roughly 18% of the federal workforce is black while only 12% of the population is black

3) Only in America could they have had the two people most responsible for our tax code, Timothy Geithner, the head of the Treasury Department and Charles Rangel who once ran the Ways and Means Committee, BOTH turn out to be tax cheats who are in favor of higher taxes.

4) Only in America can they have terrorists kill people in the name of Allah and have the media primarily react by fretting that Muslims might be harmed by the backlash.

5) Only in America would they make people who want to legally become American citizens wait for years in their home countries and pay tens of thousands of dollars for the privilege while we discuss letting anyone who sneaks into the country illegally just 'magically' become American citizens.

6) Only in America could the people who believe in balancing the budget and sticking by the country's Constitution be thought of as "extremists."

7) Only in America could you need to present a driver's license to cash a check or buy alcohol, but not to vote.

8) Only in America could people demand the government investigate whether oil companies are gouging the public because the price of gas went up when the return on equity invested by a major U.S. oil company (Marathon Oil) is less than half of a company making tennis shoes

(Nike).

9) Only in America could the government collect more tax dollars from the people than any nation in recorded history, still spend a Trillion dollars more than it has per year - for total spending of $7-Million PER MINUTE, and complain that it doesn't have nearly enough money.

10) Only in America could politicians talk about the greed of the rich at a $35,000.00 a plate campaign fund-raising event.

Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy,

its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery. --- Winston Churchill

The problems we face today exist because the people who work for a living

are outnumbered by those who vote for a living. --- Unknown

God blesses!

[Ted Oplinger]

With respect to your chart, Bravus, how the data collection is defined matters greatly to the conclusion. That is the reason I serious question the country to country comparisons, as it is all too easy to cherry pick. That said, your synopsis is spot on: it is not the broken homes, nor is it the video games, nor is it the guns.

So my questions continue to be: why do people want the treat the symptoms, but not the causes? Even deeper - why do people want someone else to do those things we have the responsibility to do ourselves - like keeping the homes intact, policing video game usage in the home, and responsible attitudes toward the tools of keeping our safety and liberty sure? Why do we not recognize that crime and tyranny are things ever present within the human condition - and why are these things not fought at every level when God has declared they should be?

Perhaps it is because people would rather someone else do the dirty work of making society a more secure, safer place, rather than being accountable to contribute themselves (and face up to the accompanying moral entanglements within that responsibility)?

Part of the issues you point to, Bravus, is the refusal on the part of people to grant that God-given life and liberty are things worth defending. This is reflected in society in how the law-abiding citizen is perceived, Where life is deemed cheap and liberty taken for granted, society spirals down. Where the law-abiding is deemed cheaply, and little defense of them (or their values) is made or encouraged, society bleeds profusely.

All the laws in the world banning certain guns and accessories will never, ever help the situation, because they are but band-aids being applied upon gaping, bleeding wounds. I also venture to say the hysteria attending these calls for more legislation are but knives cutting the wounds deeper.

Here in the US, in state after state, and city after city, the only thing which has a serious track record of working against crimes and mass murders are those areas where the law-abiding citizen is allowed and encouraged to step up against criminals with the same tools the criminal uses. Mass murders are not occurring in the so-called "uneducated red-neck" states where gun laws have been relaxed. They occur only in "gun-free zones" and areas where laws restrict defense of life by the law-abiding using the same tools the criminal has.

Here in Texas, it was after the Luby cafeteria mass murder in Killeen, Tx, which sparked the outcry for concealed carry. The experiment has worked. Since that mass slaying, there has been only one such repeat offence - in nearby Fort Hood. Unlike the rest of Texas, though, Fort Hood runs on Federal law, and the soldiers are not allowed to carry the sidearms on them. Soldiers, banned from guns, were not able to defend themselves from one who did - under false pretenses - and died in large numbers as a result.

Sound familiar? Gun free zones - even within the security of the Army - do not work. Those intent on committing such murders always find a way to do so, breaking all ready existing laws to do so.

It is not just the US where there is a huge gaping wound, but in every people group where the value of the common person is cheapened to be collateral, rather than something valuable worthy to defend. This is happening all over the world. In London, UK, being deprived of guns, criminals use long knives. Why? Because the issue is NOT the weapon, but the ability of the criminal to do their evil unopposed. One tool is just as good as another. Until that day comes where this is the premise by which crime and tyranny are opposed, the world will continue to spiral down, and mass murders/crimes will continue to occur. It is really a simple, easily understood point.

The state of Texas...and many others...currently understand this point. The areas which don't - and continue to see crime go uncontrolled - are areas which do not understand it.

Rather than the typical emotional hysterics, I'd like to see the real data where people are NOT subjected to greater crime and tyranny after these weapons laws are instituted, Unfortunately, there is not a single country globally - or state/city within my country in my own country - which can provide such for the last 100 years. EVERYWHERE, where the common person (or select people groups) is/are not encouraged and equipped to defend against evil, life is cheap, and people have been slaughtered by the hundreds, thousands, and millions.

We are "educated" by our systems to think this is a "good" thing, and it is noble to champion for more of the same - it is somehow more virtuous to take away the ability to oppose the criminal and the tyrant than to possess the means and the responsibility and to make that defense sure.

Until it is accepted that criminals and tyrants do not think like law-abiding citizens (meaning they do not care about laws or the law-abiding), and it is accepted to have more compassion for the defense of the law-abiding against the criminal and the tyrannical, things will not change.

Blessings,

[bonnie]

Dear Bonnie, I appreciate your fervor and decidedly knowledgeable answers, agreeing with many of them, but wonder at whether your determination to prove yourself right isn't working against your peace of mind. This, of course is somewhat off the topic but it does seem we can be assured politicians and human efforts are never going to solve our joint problems until man in general has a heart for his/her neighbor before him/herself.