Sooooo Michael Jackson

[Kimberly]

That was my point, pedophiles do have a high rate of repeating the acts. They need constant help. This is a proven fact.

Try reading facts about pedophiles at www.meganslaw.ca.gov.

You never know, you might find somebody you know on that website.

Kim

[Kimberly]

Shane, I am sorry to hear about your abuse as a child. I'm glad you spoke up and said you couldn't look the person in the face.

I have always heard that adults should trust what children say. I've learned a lot about pedophiles by reading the facts at the website I posted.

I bet there are some adults that couldn't look a rapist in the eye, either.

Kim

[Jeannieb43]

It's the natural reaction of a victim NOT to look at the accuser. I have a very close relative who was kidnapped, raped and sodomized by a stranger (who pretended to help her change her tire) after having a flat tire on an L.A. freeway when she was in her teens. Fortunately that criminal was apprehended and brought to trial. She had some professional counseling in preparation for testifying at his trial. The main thing she was told is to stare defiantly at the defendant while testifying, and all the time she's on the stand. This is to show him she's not intimidated.

It was hard for her to do so, but she did it. He was convicted. He's one of the criminals whose face appears at that website.

[Robert]

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I am a sexual abuse victim...

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Well Shane, then according to some you are hardwired with propensities to be a pedophile yourself. Now I don't believe that is so...I am merely reflecting on the attitudes here.

To all:

All of us stand guilty under law, period! Whose law? God's law....All of us love self [the essence of sin]....None of us are selfless; therefore according to the law the only way for God to rid Himself of this problem is condemn us to death. Instead God offers mercy...He offers "no condemnation"!

• You, therefore, have no excuse, you who pass judgment on someone else, for at whatever point you judge the other, you are condemning yourself, because you who pass judgment do the same things. [Paul]

[David_McQueen]

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Jeannieb43 said:

A paedophile is never

cured,

just as an alcoholic is never cured. He can be prevented from acting out, however, by the same methods as an alcoholic with A.A. -- by staying away from schools, playgrounds, Boy Scout groups, even churches; by being an active participant in group therapy and attending meetings regularly; by having to report to his parole agent regularly; by publicly admitting his problem and enlisting his family and friends in helping to make sure he's never around children alone; etc.

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Am a bit confused here. I recognise that certain protective measures have to be put in place, but are you saying that Jesus cannot cure alcoholics or paedophiles?

[David_McQueen]

The fact is that the jurors felt that the evidence was not powerful enough. Trial by our peers is the fundamental cornerstone of most criminal trials in the western world. Whether this goes in the favour of public opinion or not still does not affect the fact that this is a valid source of deciding the case.

There are many indicators to suggest that MJ had paedophile traits. This does not however mean that we should quote inaccurate statements on recidivism and for those of us who work in prevention and education of abuse it is recognised that paranoia and propaganda does not serve the best interests.

There is a lot to learn from this case. Most importantly how we approach this whole situation as Christians both in protecting the innocent and actually recognising that Jesus can save even those who some consider the scum of the earth!

[Paul Beach]

Dear person,

Jesus can cure them, but unless He stamps a visible seal of approval on them, we ought to be cautious.

Further, a paedophile who has changed should do all he can to avoid any appearances and should voluntarily avoid contact with children. Mrs. Gray knows that she would never have let her son hang out with a pedophile anymore than she would let her son sleep in Michael Jackson's bed.

Too many children are molested because people like to think that pedophiles have changed. Jesus can change hearts, but the people who perpetrate this evil should accept the fact that because of their history they will have to live modified lives.

Sincerely,

Mrs. Gray

[Paul Beach]

Along those lines, wasn't there something in the Bible about a millstone?

Sincerely,

Mrs. Gray

[Guest]

With all the restrictions placed on those 12 people by the judge there is no way for ANY SORT of justice! It has fallen in the street even worse that "truth has fallen in the street" in Adventist circles.

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Isaiah 59:14 "And judgment is turned away backward, and justice standeth afar off: for truth is fallen in the street, and equity cannot enter."

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I knew of a man that said he needed only a chainsaw one match, one dull knife, a can of gasoline, hammer and one nail to stop all child molester & rapest dead in their tracks. This demonstration should be done at the city park where there is trees & the entire town assembled. Live TV of course into every class room & prisoner cell. The two legged dog is taken to the tree and at his belt height cut the tree down a few inches below the mark leaving a flat surface. Next the hammer and nail is brought forth and driven into the offender body part. Hand the offender the dull knife as a gallon of petro is poured on the stump. Next, throw a lighted match towards the stump. This he claimed would stop all rapest & child molesters forever. And crooked judges & lyeing lawyers??? They could then grab a shopping cart & gather allumnim cans & cardboards to sell, and all the citizen of that fair city lived happy there after with a measure of justice again.

[CyberGuy]

You have to look at the history.

1. This woman was caught shoplifting at a major department store. She then said she was groped by the security guard and her children confirmed that story. The woman sued the store.

2. Later a paralegal aid to the woman told the jury under oath that the woman admitted to her that she lied under oath and that she had coached her kids on what to say. This legal aid had nothing to gain by testifying this fact.

So you see with that information and the fact that the kid did not look at MJ convinced the jury that the kid was lying. Right or wrong because of this past lawsuit and of lying under oath and the testimony of the paralegal aid that this woman admitted to lying under oath and of coaching her kids to lie under oath put a reasonable doubt in the juries mind as to the truthfulness of this kids testimony.

[CyberGuy]

Matthew 18:5-6

5And whoso shall receive one such little child in my name receiveth me. 6But whoso shall offend one of these little ones which believe in me, it were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and that he were drowned in the depth of the sea.

The King James Version, (Cambridge: Cambridge) 1769.

It is uncertain if God is refering to hurting a child in a molestation case or just hurting the childs feelings by turning him or her away when they want to come to God. Although a case could be made about a pastor or teacher molesting a child put in their care.

[Dr. Shane]

Again, if the fact the kid didn't look at MJ influenced the jury, the jury is just goofy. The interviews I have seen and heard of the jurers, it doesn't sound like any are convinced MJ is innocent. They let him off because of reasonable doubt. One even commented that the proponderance of the evidence was against MJ but that wasn't the threshold. The threshold was reasonable doubt.

If he hadn't been a celebrety I doubt he would have been aquitted. Although I understand why they found the way they did, and think I would have done the same, I don't think the average janitor, butcher or bus driver would have been given the same benifit of the doubt.

[CyberGuy]

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I don't think the average janitor, butcher or bus driver would have been given the same benifit of the doubt.

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I agree with you on that one. MJ's celebrity status had a lot to do with his aquittal IMO. Same with OJ.

But if there had been a conviction there was much to appeal the conviction on. Already today I heard of one conviction that was thrown out due to the presecutor throwing out all the blacks on a murder trial of a black man. The prosecutor of this trial threw out all the black jurors and did not allow one black juror to be on the jury. There would have been a appeal based on that if there had been a conviction.

[CyberGuy]

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The interviews I have seen and heard of the jurers, it doesn't sound like any are convinced MJ is innocent.

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What the one juror said was "I think MJ was guilty of molesting some kids in the past but just not this one."

You see that was the whole point. They were asked if MJ was guilty of molesting this kid who took the witness stand. The jury did not believe MJ molested that kid even though he may have molested others as implied by a large cash settlement in the last civil case.

[Guest]

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Shane said:

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The kids had acting lessons and the accuser when he testified would not look MJ in the face. That made the jurors suspicious he was lying. Remember a lot of these women were mothers. When your kid will not look in your face when he is telling a story would you believe him?

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I am a sexual abuse victem and in my case my mother caught the perpetrator in the act. He at first pled not guilty and we thought I would have to testify. I didn't even want to be in the same room with him, not to mention looking at him in the face. Luckly he changed his plea to guilty and I didn't have to testify. However I am sure that had I had to testify, I wouldn't have been looking at him in the face.

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For a monemt after reading this account/testimony, I thought I had stumbled into a men Promise Keepers meeting where small cell groups are formed sitting in a circle & everyone starts telling stories of the wedding night experence or deep secrets to encourage...

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This is very rare for me to be wrong, but I was glad I was MISTAKEN this time as I kept reading... Thank you everyone that cooperated!! Yes more & more thinking people are becoming aware that the practice of telling our difficulities to others only makes us weak and it brings no strength to those listening to our woes. It lays on them a burden they are not able to bear being mortal themselves. This is the business God is in & Him alone! We need not be in doubt as the location for this confession, He even tells us this as well... It's the closet!!!

[Dr. Shane]

"Confess your faults one to another, and pray one for another, that ye may be healed." James 5:16

[Amelia]

*tacking on

For those who have yet to have the pleasure and pain of being on jury duty; let me say one thing. The judge reads the jury instructions on the how and what of reaching a verdict. Its only by those intructions and nothing else, that you vote. The judge also will tell the jury whether or not it has to be a total verdict or if a split verdict will do.

[Guest]

From my experence of having to drop everthing at work & to go down to the courthouse and be subjected to the silly games that the "good old boys club" inflict on the public is criminal. The only ones selected as the jury people are ones where common sense has been on the back burner for years due to them being educated by the worlds standards where they are trained to push the pencil, jumping through mans hoops so they can only EXPECT man to be controled by man. When they were questioning me I told the judge & attornies I didn't mind hearing the court rules as this is all new to me, but I didn't want ANYONE to tell me what to THINK. I was dismissed after THAT, after traveling about 400 miles to be there for two days. Ignorance gone to seed in the lives of consenting adults!

[Dr. Shane]

It reminds me of a time that Walter Williams was telling of when he was called for jury duty. The judge asked if they would uphold the law. He answered by saying if it was a just law. (He is a conservative black economics professor) The judge asked him to explain. So he went into some court cases decided during slavery and during segregation and explained that since the laws were unjust he, as a jurer, wouldn't have followed the law. The judge dismissed him.

[Gerr]

Just tagging on.

A question for those who believe he is a pedophile.

Have you ever heard of a rapist who only fundled his victim without penetration?

Ditto, a pedophile?

And to everyone. How come the public is able to see the face of the accused but not the accuser?

Gerry

[Neil D]

Hmmmmm....Ed, based upon what you have written, it would seem to me that you should have manipulated the system to get on to the jury so that it would have some "sense"...

[Bravus]

Gerry - yes, there are pedophiles who do things other than penetration. (If you say there are not, then it's a circular matter of definition, where you're defining pedophilia in terms of certain activities.) Why does that particular distinction matter in this instance?

And the reason we can see the face of the accused but not the accuser is that the accuser is still a minor, and there are legal rules - for excellent reasons - that safeguard the identity of minors in the criminal justice system, whether they are plaintiffs, suspects or witnesses. The issue is age, not role.

[Bravus]

Disrespect for the justice system worries me in all its forms. The jury found Michael Jackson not guilty in this case. It is true that he may be guilty in other cases, or that he may just have a badly warped worldview and sense of what is and is not appropriate. But if we second-guess and disrespect the legal system we bring it into disrepute, whereas it's a key institution to protect us from both criminals and tyranny. People who attack it need to be careful, and to do so appropriately.

[Guest]

Quote:

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Neil D said:

Hmmmmm....Ed, based upon what you have written, it would seem to me that you should have manipulated the system to

get on to the jury

so that it would have some "sense"...

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My library doesn't have the book "Games People Play", so I don't have that virus like the public at large, besides I am still trying to memorize the book of Leviticus. Thanks for that advice, but I doubt if I could ever go there by being deceptive. What you see is what you get! Wouldn't it be a nicer world in those that meet behind closed door & no windows turned over a new leaf and forgot all about being deceptive?

[Gerr]

Quote:

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Bravus said:

Gerry - yes, there are pedophiles who do things other than penetration. (If you say there are not, then it's a circular matter of definition, where you're defining pedophilia in terms of certain activities.) Why does that particular distinction matter in this instance?

And the reason we can see the face of the accused but not the accuser is that the accuser is still a minor, and there are legal rules - for excellent reasons - that safeguard the identity of minors in the criminal justice system, whether they are plaintiffs, suspects or witnesses. The issue is age, not role.

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[:"blue"]If so I'd like to hear it. By penetration I don't just mean penile penetration. It could by any part of the anatomy or a foreign object.

I was thinking more of the mother who always had a jacket over her head/face everytime she appeared on TV. No matter, I think if the face of the accused, whose life could just as potentially be ruined as the accuser even if found not guilty, could be plastered on the media, so should all the accusers involved. Look at the Bryant case. Every broadcast would show Bryant but never saw the face of the accuser. Totally unfair![/]

Gerry