Righteousness by Faith

[joeb]

On another thread Gerry and I were involved in a conversation about righteousness by faith that included sanctification by faith. We agreed we would start over because of the length of the thread and because we ended up talking past each other.

OK. Here goes.

Gerry,

Are we agreed that righteousness can only come by faith in Christ? And, do we include both justification(imputed righteousness) and sanctification(imparted righteousness) in that righteousness?

[skyblue888]

Faith and righteousness come from Christ alone by the Holy Spirit. Righteousness is both imputed and imparted.

sky

[Ted Oplinger]

Faith and righteousness come from Christ alone by the Holy Spirit. Righteousness is both imputed and imparted.

sky

Just to push the discussion along - the natural questions arises here:

What is imputed righteousness, and how is it justly imputed?

What is imparted righteousness, and how does this seen?

Blessings,

[joeb]

Faith and righteousness come from Christ alone by the Holy Spirit. Righteousness is both imputed and imparted.

sky

[joeb]

What is imparted righteousness, and how does this seen?

Blessings,

Not ignoring you, or your questions, as I'm waiting for Gerry to respond before I comment again, but could you fix the typo here so it makes sense? I'm puzzled by it the way it is.

[Gerr]

We just arrived at my sister's home here in Honolulu earlier this evening. We left the Big Island this morning. It's now almost midnight, but just checking the forum. Will respond probably tomorrow.

[Gerr]

Gerry,

Are we agreed that righteousness can only come by faith in Christ?

Yes.

Originally Posted By: joeb

And, do we include both justification(imputed righteousness) and sanctification(imparted righteousness) in that righteousness?

As a visual aid, I picture the righteousness of Christ coming in a gift-wrapped package. I receive the gift as mine and I go to the bank and deposit it in their vault (justification). When God looks at my account, I am no longer destitute. I am rich. But that riches doesn't do me any good unless I use it for living expenses. So every day, I write a check claiming that that riches in the vault is mine (sanctification).

Another way that I look at it is the righteousness of Christ again received in a gift-wrapped box. I am like a completely dry sponge. When I receive it, His righteouness is imputed/counted as mine. But unless I soak up this righteousness, God would be lying telling the universe that I am full of His righteousness while I remain dry. Walking with Jesus to me is soaking up little by little His righteousness while at the same time shading my many faults, warts, and imperfections. No matter how long I live, there's always more to soak up and more imperfections to give up. There is never a point in the process where anyone could claim merit. It's all Christ's righteousness. Imputed? It's His. Imparted? We are only appropriating what is His.

The question that we, or rather I was trying to deal with is - is there a point in the believer's journey where he can say, "I am now walking on the same level as Christ walked. I no longer make ANY mistakes. I am no longer sinning. I am like a sponge that is totally filled with His righteousness, and there's nothing left for me to absorb?"

I say not. What say you?

[Gerr]

What is imputed righteousness, and how is it justly imputed?

God: "I give you righteousnes if you accept it."

Sinner: "Okay, Lord,I believe you."

And it is his!!! That transaction is so simple that we as human beings who are prone to legalism find it hard to believe! But that is the Good News!

Why is it just? 1) Man is INCAPABLE of coming up with any kind of righteousness that would/could merit reprieve from eternal exclusion from His presence, especially for a condition for which we had anything to do with. 2) It would be totally unjust for a just God to require something of us that we are totally incapable of giving. 3) It is also just because by accepting it to make it our own, it also means that we are making a vow that we will no longer continue to do the things we are repentant about. 4) And it is also just because God promises that through His indwelling Spirit, it is His work to do the willing and doing as long as we are walking in the Spirit.

Quote:

What is imparted righteousness, and how does this seen?

Blessings,

Imparted righteousness - what was mine in theory (imputed righteousness), it now becomes mine in practice. Like the son imitating his father, he begins to mimic his mannerisms. But he does it imperfectly, just as the moon never perfectly reflects the light of the sun. The closer we come to Christ, the better we reflect His glory.

[Gail]

Gerry, I like that :)

[Ted Oplinger]

The imparted question should read: What is imparted righteousness, and what is its presence mean?

The edit function had long since turned off by the time I saw Joeb's comment...

Let the discussion move along!

Blessings,

[joeb]

Will these dictionary definitions of imputed and imparted work to everyone's satisfaction?

What I'd like to do, if everyone is agreeable to it, is to work through the formal definitions by themselves first, and then take a look at not how we each personally see these terms, but how the Bible and SOP use them. What I fear is that we will jump too far, too fast, into a deep subject, and then we will be talking past each other because we don't have an agreed-on basis from which we can understand each other. If we agree on dictionary and Biblical definitions first then we can be sure we at least have a starting point to which we can refer if we run into communication problems.

Is this OK with everyone? Does this sound reasonable to y'all?

Quote:

The Collaborative International Dictionary of English v.0.48 (gcide)

Impute Im*pute", v. t. [imp. & p. p. Imputed; p. pr. & vb.

n. Imputing.] [F. imputer, L. imputare to bring into the

reckoning, charge, impute; pref. im- in + putare to reckon,

think. See Putative.]

[1913 Webster]

2. (Theol.) To adjudge as one's own (the sin or

righteousness) of another; as, the righteousness of Christ

is imputed to us.

[1913 Webster]

Quote:

The Collaborative International Dictionary of English v.0.48 (gcide)

Impart Im*part", v. t. [imp. & p. p. Imparted; p. pr. & vb.

n. Imparting.] [OF. impartir, empartir, L. impartire,

impertire; pref. im- in + partire to part, divide, fr. pars,

partis, part, share. See Part, n. ]

1. To bestow a share or portion of; to give, grant, or

communicate; to allow another to partake in; as, to impart

food to the poor; the sun imparts warmth.

[1913 Webster]

Well may he then to you his cares impart. --Dryden.

[1913 Webster]

2. To obtain a share of; to partake of. [R.] --Munday.

[1913 Webster]

[Gerr]

Joeb, I'm still waiting for your clear statement whether in this life a sinner can come to the point of sinless perfection (no more falling short, no more missing the mark) AFTER he believes and accepts Christ as his Savior.

[skyblue888]

I suppose we could debate these questions indefinitely as many have for decades but there is a voice speaking to us on these subjects and as far as I am concerned this is where I would like to turn for clear answers.

"The rigtheousness by which we are justified is imputed; the righteousness by which we are sanctified is imparted. The first is our TITLE to Heaven, the second is our FITNESS for Heaven." Review & Herald, June 4,1895.

The next statement covers both:

"Righteousness is obedience to the law. The law demands righteousness, and this the sinner owes to the law; but he is incapable of rendering it. The ONLY WAY he can ATTAIN to RIGHTEOUSNESS is through FAITH. By FAITH he can BRING to God the MERITS of Christ, and the Lord places the obedience of His Son to the sinner's account. Christ's righteousness is accepted in place of man's failure, and God receives, pardons, justifies, the repentant, believing soul, treats him as though he were righteous, and loves him as He loves His Son. This is how faith is accounted righteousness; and the pardoned soul goes on from grace to grace, from light to a greater light." Faith & Works,101.

This covers both righteousness imputed and imparted through faith in the merits of Christ. To go on from grace to grace is righteousness imparted by the Holy Spirit to enable the repentant, believing sinner to do the works which God prepared before hand that he should walk in them. Eph.2:10.

Of course if we sin we have an Advocate sitting at the right hand of the Majesty on High and who is faithful to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all righteousness but the aim of the Christian is to overcome as Jesus overcame.

When the character of Christ shall be perfectly reproduced in His people, the end will come and Jesus will return to take His people home. Mark 4:26-29.

sky

[Ted Oplinger]

Joeb, I'm still waiting for your clear statement whether in this life a sinner can come to the point of sinless perfection (no more falling short, no more missing the mark) AFTER he believes and accepts Christ as his Savior.

Gerry - does 1 John 2:1 count? I do not see a qualifier there that says "may not sin, unless you don't see it possible in your experience".

The 1-2 punch of verses 1, 2 there looks very suspiciously like verse 1 is to be our default position, with verse 2 being there in case we do sin (to aid us to get back to doing verse 1). I might be wrong there, but that would flow with the tenor of Matthew 5:48 in the light of Isaiah 55:11 - a "perfection" made real by the power of His Word received into us, returning that "perfection" back to God as the proof He has spoken it, rather than our puny understanding and attempts as to what it means.

Just because it doesn't match our perceptions as to what is "real" in our experience, doesn't mean God cannot make it happen, does it?

Can it be that man's perception and understanding of "sinless perfection" does not agree with God's?

It would seem to me that both the imputed and imparted righteousness by faith would lead to both imputed and imparted perfection by faith as a logical deduction/conclusion from what the Bible says about righteousness by faith. Perfection - held in faith grasping both the imputed and imparted aspects?

Not being combative, Gerry - just thinking out loud here and pushing the conversation along...

Blessings,

[joeb]

Sorry about taking so long to get back to this, but I haven't had access to the internet since early Friday afternoon.

I take it that coming to a common understanding of the terms that define righteousness by faith isn't something that anyone else is interested in doing. I don't understand why. How can we understand what others are saying if we don't know if we/they are basing our/their comments on the same meaning of basic words and ideas?

Can everyone agree on impute meaning attribute or credit to? How about impart meaning "send from one person or place to another" or "transfer to another". These definitions of impute and impart both come from the dictionary.

Gerry,

Before we get into our apparent differences let's see what dictionary terms and basic ideas of righteousness by faith that we can agree on. I'd like to guild as much of a common basis of understanding as possible before we get to our differences so that we can both understand why they exist.

[skyblue888]

joeb, I agree with these definitions. I don't see why anyone wouldn't.

What is important is to understand how we are justified and sanctified. Of course it is by righteousness imputed and imparted but how do we get this precious gift of the righteousness of Christ whether imputed or imparted? It is by faith of course and faith is also the gift of God. (Eph.2:9) For Christ is the Author and Finisher of our this faith (Heb.12:2). It is the faith that lays right hold upon the merits of His shed blood for "He is our propitiation through faith in His blood," (Rom.3:25)

This is the only true faith, the faith that lays right hold upon the merits of the blood that is of value beyond estimate.

"The sinner is JUSTIFIED through the MERITS of Jesus, and this is God's acknowledgment of the perfection of the ransom paid for man." Faith & Works,107.

"Fallen man is to learn that our Heavenly Father cannot be satisfied until His love embraces the repentant sinner, TRANSFORMED through the MERITS of the spotless Lamb of God." Our Father Cares,204.

So these statements make it crystal clear that both justification and sanctification are obtained through exercising faith in the merits of the blood of Christ. We exercise faith in the merits of the blood of Christ by appropriating them to ourselves and we appropriate them to ourselves by claiming them for it is our privilege to do so and unless we do this we cannot be saved, that is, we cannot be justified and sanctified.

This is made very clear in the following statement:

"UNLESS the sinner makes it his LIFE BUSINESS to behold the uplifted Saviour and to ACCEPT the MERITS which it is his PRIVILEGE to CLAIM, he CAN NO MORE BE SAVED than Peter could walk upon the water unless he kept his exes fixed steadily upon Jesus." Testimonies to Ministers,93.

This last statement was made in the context of the 1888 message of righteousness by faith.

So by daily claiming the MERITS of a crucified and risen Saviour, we have the promise that the Father justifies us and sanctifies us. Justification and sanctification are the works of God just as the faith by which we appropriate the MERITS of Christ is the gift and work of God. "Faith is the gift of God." Eph.2:9. "The work of God is that you believe on Him whom He has sent." John 6:29.

To believe on Him whom He has sent is to believe that "The MERITS of His sacrifice are SUFFICIENT to present to the Father in our behalf," (S.C.36) in order to be justified and sanctified.

sky

[joeb]

joeb, I agree with these definitions. I don't see why anyone shouldn't.

What is important is to understand how we are justified and sanctified. Yes it is by righteousness imputed and imparted but how do we get this precious gift of the righteousness of Christ whether imputed or imparted? It is by faith and faith is the gift of God. Christ is the Author and Finisher of our this faith that comes from Him. It is the faith that lays right hold upon the merits of His shed blood for He is our propitiation through faith in His blood, faith in the merits of the blood that is of value beyond estimate.

"The sinner is JUSTIFIED through the MERITS of Jesus, and this is God's acknowledgment of the perfection of the ransom paid for man." Faith & Works,107.

"Fallen man is to learn that our Heavenly Father cannot be satisfied until His love embraces the repentant sinner, TRANSFORMED through the MERITS of the spotless Lamb of God." Our Father Cares,204.

So these statements make it crystal clear that both justification and sanctification are obtained through exercising faith in the merits of Christ. To have faith in the merits of Christ means to appropriate them and we appropriate them by claiming them for it is our privilege to do so and unless we do this we cannot be saved, that is, we cannot be justified and sanctified.

This is made very clear in the following statement:

"UNLESS the sinner makes it his LIFE BUSINESS to behold the uplifted Saviour and to ACCEPT the MERITS which it is his PRIVILEGE to CLAIM, he CAN NO MORE SAVED than Peter could walk upon the water unless he kept his exes fixed steadily upon Jesus." Testimonies to Ministers,93.

This last statement was made in the context of the 1888 message of righteousness by faith.

So by daily claiming the MERITS of a crucified and risen Saviour, we have the promise that the Father justifies us and sanctifies us. Justification and sanctification are the works of God just as the faith by which we appropriate the MERITS of Christ is the gift and work of God. "Faith is the gift of God." Eph.2:9. "The work of God is that you believe on Him whom He has sent." John 6:29.

To believe on Him whom He has sent is to believe that "The MERITS of His sacrifice are SUFFICIENT to plead before the Father in our behalf," (S.C.36) in order to be justified and sanctified.

sky

Let's get back to the definitions again, sky. I think having a settled foundation is really important in any study, and I would really like to have this thread to be a step-by-step study rather than a descent into bickering about the subject.

If impute means attribute to, then imputed righteousness means that Christ's righteousness is seen as as ours, not actually ours. It's credited to our account because of our faith in God's word, His promises to us.

If impart means to means to transfer or send from one person to another, then imparted righteousness is that which Christ shares with us by transfering it to us. It's not credited to us, it is given to us because of our faith in Christ and God's promises to us.

Do you agree with this?

Does everybody reading/posting to this thread agree with this? If not, why not?

[skyblue888]

Joeb, I have already stated that I agreed with you on these definitions.

This statement which I have already quoted in another post above speaks of both:

"Righteousness is obedience to the law. The law demands righteousness, and this the sinner owes to the law; but he is incapable of rendering it. The ONLY WAY he can ATTAIN to RIGHTEOUSNESS is through FAITH. By FAITH he can BRING to God the MERITS of Christ, and the Lord places the obedience of His Son to the sinner's account. Christ's righteousness is accepted in place of man's failure, and God receives, pardons, justifies, the repentant, believing soul, treats him as though he were righteous, and loves him as He loves His Son. This is how faith is accounted righteousness; and the pardoned soul goes on from grace to grace, from light to a greater light." Faith & Works,101.

First it is said that as the sinner brings to God the MERITS of His Son, God accepts, forgives, JUSTIFIES, the repentant, believing sinner and treats him AS THOUGH HE WERE RIGHTEOUS, as though he had never sinned. There it is. This is righteousness imputed. But He does more than simply treat him as though he were righteous as far as his past is concerned. He also makes him righteous and this is the work of sanctification which is the work of a life time and that is why we are told that we must make it our life business to look to Jesus and to accept His MERITS as it is our privilege to claim them for this is the only way the sinner can be saved, justified and sanctified.

This is "imparted" righteousness as the sinner goes on from grace to grace and from light to a greater light, as stated.

sky

[joeb]

Joeb, I have already stated that I agreed with you on these definitions.

This statement which I have already quoted in another post above speaks of both:

"Righteousness is obedience to the law. The law demands righteousness, and this the sinner owes to the law; but he is incapable of rendering it. The ONLY WAY he can ATTAIN to RIGHTEOUSNESS is through FAITH. By FAITH he can BRING to God the MERITS of Christ, and the Lord places the obedience of His Son to the sinner's account. Christ's righteousness is accepted in place of man's failure, and God receives, pardons, justifies, the repentant, believing soul, treats him as though he were righteous, and loves him as He loves His Son. This is how faith is accounted righteousness; and the pardoned soul goes on from grace to grace, from light to a greater light." Faith & Works,101.

First it is said that as the sinner brings to God the MERITS of His Son, God accepts, forgives, JUSTIFIES, the repentant, believing sinner and treats him AS THOUGH HE WERE RIGHTEOUS, as though he had never sinned. There it is. This is righteousness imputed. But He does more than simply treat him as though he were righteous as far as his past is concerned. He also makes him righteous and this is the work of sanctification which is the work of a life time and that is why we are told that we must make it our life business to look to Jesus and to accept His MERITS as it is our privilege to claim them for this is the only way the sinner can be saved, justified and sanctified.

This is "imparted" righteousness as the sinner goes on from grace to grace and from light to a greater light, as stated.

sky

OK. I think I can agree with your quotes, but your post brings up questions in my mind.

Are there any conditions we must meet before we can receive imputed or imparted righteousness? I'm thinking specifically about a half-hearted giving ourselves to God in which we reserve a part of ourselves which we will not surrender to Him. Will God give us one or the other, both, or neither, if we give only part of our heart to God?

And, as to sanctification being the work of a lifetime, just what is that "work"? Does that mean we have to earn it by overcoming individual sins? I guess what I'm really asking is what is the focus of this "work"? What do we "work" on to obtain something that comes by faith?

[Ted Oplinger]

Originally Posted By: skyblue888

joeb, I agree with these definitions. I don't see why anyone shouldn't.

What is important is to understand how we are justified and sanctified. Yes it is by righteousness imputed and imparted but how do we get this precious gift of the righteousness of Christ whether imputed or imparted? It is by faith and faith is the gift of God. Christ is the Author and Finisher of our this faith that comes from Him. It is the faith that lays right hold upon the merits of His shed blood for He is our propitiation through faith in His blood, faith in the merits of the blood that is of value beyond estimate.

"The sinner is JUSTIFIED through the MERITS of Jesus, and this is God's acknowledgment of the perfection of the ransom paid for man." Faith & Works,107.

"Fallen man is to learn that our Heavenly Father cannot be satisfied until His love embraces the repentant sinner, TRANSFORMED through the MERITS of the spotless Lamb of God." Our Father Cares,204.

So these statements make it crystal clear that both justification and sanctification are obtained through exercising faith in the merits of Christ. To have faith in the merits of Christ means to appropriate them and we appropriate them by claiming them for it is our privilege to do so and unless we do this we cannot be saved, that is, we cannot be justified and sanctified.

This is made very clear in the following statement:

"UNLESS the sinner makes it his LIFE BUSINESS to behold the uplifted Saviour and to ACCEPT the MERITS which it is his PRIVILEGE to CLAIM, he CAN NO MORE SAVED than Peter could walk upon the water unless he kept his exes fixed steadily upon Jesus." Testimonies to Ministers,93.

This last statement was made in the context of the 1888 message of righteousness by faith.

So by daily claiming the MERITS of a crucified and risen Saviour, we have the promise that the Father justifies us and sanctifies us. Justification and sanctification are the works of God just as the faith by which we appropriate the MERITS of Christ is the gift and work of God. "Faith is the gift of God." Eph.2:9. "The work of God is that you believe on Him whom He has sent." John 6:29.

To believe on Him whom He has sent is to believe that "The MERITS of His sacrifice are SUFFICIENT to plead before the Father in our behalf," (S.C.36) in order to be justified and sanctified.

sky

Let's get back to the definitions again, sky. I think having a settled foundation is really important in any study, and I would really like to have this thread to be a step-by-step study rather than a descent into bickering about the subject.

If impute means attribute to, then imputed righteousness means that Christ's righteousness is seen as as ours, not actually ours. It's credited to our account because of our faith in God's word, His promises to us.

If impart means to means to transfer or send from one person to another, then imparted righteousness is that which Christ shares with us by transfering it to us. It's not credited to us, it is given to us because of our faith in Christ and God's promises to us.

Do you agree with this?

Does everybody reading/posting to this thread agree with this? If not, why not?

As I understand things...I'd have to steer away from man's definitions a bit. I'm not sure if this is an agree or a disagree...

In the light of Romans 5:1-19, 2 Corinthians 5:14, 15, and Galatians 2:20, I would understand both imputed and imparted aspects of righteousness are indeed ours, if I read these verses in the light of each other correctly.

If we are crucified with Christ on the cross, in the similitude of the type of Adam who sinned, and all humans share in a resurrection to life because of being included into Himself in the resurrection, after the similitude of the type of Adam who sinned...by logical extension, Christ was also the anti-type of Adam while He walked on earth - meaning we are as much "in Christ" as He walked about in complete righteousness, as we are "in Christ" at His death and in His resurrection.

That would mean our imputed righteousness is indeed ours as we are in Christ; imparted righteousness is indeed ours as Christ develops and unfolds that righteousness in our day-to-day lives in the here and now.

If "imputed righteousness" is not really ours, how can God tell us we are all justified into life by the blood of Christ (Romans 5:18)?

If we reckon imputed righteousness as a "credit to account" - ours but not really, how would we also avoid the inevitable charge of "celestial bookkeeping"?

In some manner, imputed righteousness must also really belong to us, if I reason this correctly...

Blessings,

[Gerr]

Gerry - does 1 John 2:1 count? I do not see a qualifier there that says "may not sin, unless you don't see it possible in your experience".

Since John goes on to talk more about sin in chap 3, and talks about in terms of ongoing, willful, sinning, I would have to say that 1 Jn 2:1 is talking about the same thing. Chapter 3 makes it clear to me that when the divine seed is dwelling within, one cannot keep on sinning. What I'm referring to is something inadvertent. You stub your toe and automatically you may utter a cuss word. You see a suggestively & seductively dressed woman and before you realize it, your thoughts have already gone the wrong way. Now I grant you that as time goes on, these kind of things would diminish, either by training or senility!

Quote:

Can it be that man's perception and understanding of "sinless perfection" does not agree with God's?

Just what kind of righteousness does the law require? Can the law differentiate intentional from inadvertent transgression?

[BobRyan]

On another thread Gerry and I were involved in a conversation about righteousness by faith that included sanctification by faith. We agreed we would start over because of the length of the thread and because we ended up talking past each other.

OK. Here goes.

Gerry,

Are we agreed that righteousness can only come by faith in Christ? And, do we include both justification(imputed righteousness) and sanctification(imparted righteousness) in that righteousness?

Sounds good to me.

in Christ,

Bob

[Gerr]

Sorry about taking so long to get back to this, but I haven't had access to the internet since early Friday afternoon.

I take it that coming to a common understanding of the terms that define righteousness by faith isn't something that anyone else is interested in doing. I don't understand why. How can we understand what others are saying if we don't know if we/they are basing our/their comments on the same meaning of basic words and ideas?

Can everyone agree on impute meaning attribute or credit to? How about impart meaning "send from one person or place to another" or "transfer to another". These definitions of impute and impart both come from the dictionary.

Gerry,

Before we get into our apparent differences let's see what dictionary terms and basic ideas of righteousness by faith that we can agree on. I'd like to guild as much of a common basis of understanding as possible before we get to our differences so that we can both understand why they exist.

At the moment, I cannot quibble with your definitions. Imputed righteousness is righteousness that is counted/reckoned as mine. God puts into my account if I accept it as mine, and He counts me as though I have never sinned even though I haven't done one single righteous act. Imparted rightousness is the righteousness of Christ being carried out in my life every moment of the day as I go about my business of living. As I mentioned in my illustration, God gives me a gift box containing the righteousness of Christ. As soon as I accept in my hand by faith, it's mine, although I have not done one righteous act. Like a dry sponge, I begin to soak up this righteousness into my life. It is being imparted to me.

Is there ever a time in this life when I can say that there is no longer any dry part in me? and that I have totally absorbed ALL of His righteousness?

[BobRyan]

Joeb, I'm still waiting for your clear statement whether in this life a sinner can come to the point of sinless perfection (no more falling short, no more missing the mark) AFTER he believes and accepts Christ as his Savior.

According to 1Cor 10 you come to that point the instant you are saved - born again. At that point you are no longer slave to sinning. Romans 6 makes the same case.

So when we sin after we become born again - it is not because we have failed to reach some point where we have power and freedom from sinning - it is because we simply choose to not do those things that continually make that power available to us - and even when we have it - we fail to choose to use it but we choose to engage in the actions of the sinful nature.

in Christ,

Bob

[Gerr]

Can a slave miss the mark or fall short of a perfect 10 while carrying his Master's wishes?