Why?

[cricket]

Just a question--no evidence, no theories, no hypotheses, no science involved in my thinking--why do non-believers (and I do mean atheists, not agnostics or others who are unsure or unsetteled on one religion) keep showing up at Club Adventist? What is so important about the believer that the non-believer need bother over? Why do they spend their time here?

[phkrause]

Maybe for the company, they know where the nice people are.

The HS doing his job? I for one like people from all walks of life joining in with us. Besides most are less critical of us than we are of them.

[cricket]

Yeah, I guess that makes sense. I just didn't understand the draw. Generally, I tend to gravitate toward people who are more like-minded than those who are not. Still enjoy a bit of variety, but in general, will prefer to spend time with people who mostly see things as I do.

[Bravus]

I could be wrong, but I think most or all of the atheists who post here are ex-SDA. So I guess that's a bit different from just random atheists showing up. Maybe some of those are actively seeking to 'enlighten' other SDAs to what they now believe to be true: same old evangelistic impulse, turned in a different direction. I think most are just here for a good discussion - which is, after all, the purpose of a discussion forum.

[M. T. Cross]

Ya know this is like the third of fourth time I have seen this brought up in the last month.

Maybe I should learn to take a hint.

[cricket]

I'm not hinting at anything, EmptyCross. Just curious as to the draw of Club Adventist. Others have given me reasonable answers, but those are merely conjecture as they are both believers. Do you have another reason? Maybe it's not any of my business. I was just curious. Feel free to answer if you like, or not if you don't like. Nothing personal, just curiosity.

[M. T. Cross]

Sorry Cricket, that was very reactionary of me, its just the timing of your question for me personally. I know you were not saying that.

I came here to put the demons of my past to rest.

I stay here because there are some really cool people, some really good discussions, and there are other people that just fascinate me with their bigotry, self righteousness and judgemental outlook.

I summed C/A up to my wife like this. Its like being in a beautiful meadow with some people enjoying the sun, watching other people chase butterflies thinking they are fairies, while running through the middle is a legion of Inquisition soldiers killing white bunnies.

If you need me to explain that I would be happy to.

[Woody]

Sorry Cricket, that was very reactionary of me, its just the timing of your question for me personally. I know you were not saying that.

I came here to put the demons of my past to rest.

I stay here because there are some really cool people, some really good discussions, and there are other people that just fascinate me with their bigotry, self righteousness and judgemental outlook.

I summed C/A up to my wife like this. Its like being in a beautiful meadow with some people enjoying the sun, watching other people chase butterflies thinking they are fairies, while running through the middle is a legion of Inquisition soldiers killing white bunnies.

If you need me to explain that I would be happy to.

Glad you are here.

[cricket]

Sounds reasonable to me. It's the "putting the demons" to rest that drew you here--that's what I was wondering.

Your description is amusing--I think there's some people missing from that picture though. What of the people who are trying to enjoy the meadow and the sun but keep getting distracted by the butterfly chasers and the legion of soldiers?

Thanks for the honest answer, EmptyCross. I appreciate it.

[Igakusei]

I was raised SDA, but left as an adult a fairly short time after discovering the vast wealth of knowledge and ideas that I was carefully sheltered from as a child. My initial reason for coming here was to see how other SDAs manage to maintain their beliefs after encountering the same information, because I had significant trouble understanding how it was possible. I still find it confusing, at times. I've since discovered that there are a variety of reasons, and I occasionally find it stimulating to see how different people with different reasons for believing react to various ideas. I'm not really out to change anyone's mind, as much as to satiate my curiosity.

I think that throwing my objections out there and seeing if anyone is capable of providing a challenging, interesting, or unique answer is also part of the reason I keep coming back.

[cricket]

Thanks, Igakusei. Seems to be similar to EmptyCross's reasons--similar, but not the same. I get confused around here sometimes too. That's why I ask questions like this!

I'll try to keep in mind that you're looking for unique, challenging and interesting answers! :)

[M. T. Cross]

Sounds reasonable to me. It's the "putting the demons" to rest that drew you here--that's what I was wondering.

Your description is amusing--I think there's some people missing from that picture though. What of the people who are trying to enjoy the meadow and the sun but keep getting distracted by the butterfly chasers and the legion of soldiers?

Thanks for the honest answer, EmptyCross. I appreciate it.

They start studying the butterfly chasers and set up stuffed bunnies for the soldiers to kill. Really in the end its all about the bunnies.

[cricket]

They start studying the butterfly chasers and set up stuffed bunnies for the soldiers to kill. Really in the end its all about the bunnies.

[fccool]

I don't think it's an issue of changing one's mind as much it is an issue of helping people think and ask important questions. If forum is for open discussion of ideas, then certain questions should be asked, and arguments should be presented and defended. I actually "swung the other way" while I was a member of this forum. I went from defending both SDA and Christian faith to the point where I did much research and found it completely indefensible... so it was the experience to the opposite of Josh McDowell. I did the research, and I could not find any legitimate reasons as to why I would believe, mostly because Christianity was channeled into me on emotional bases as a young man, and did not require me to think through certain things and be open to the opposing arguments. I came to realize that there are other possibilities once you remove the stigma of "infallibility" that surrounds certain Judeo-Christian icons.

I'm here not to knock on Christianity, but to offer the point of view that the majority of Christians don't consider, being "emotionally converted" or "ingrown".

[cricket]

Have you ever thought about venturing to other Christian websites? Perhaps christianforums.com?

[fccool]

I venture to all sorts of forums, including science, history, religion, and philosophy. This is by no means the only place I come to discuss things.

[cricket]

Cool.

[Gail]

Nice!

[Bravus]

This seemed relevant to the question posed in this thread.

[img:center]http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=4...pe=1&ref=nf

Edit: sorry, you'll have to click, Facebook link to the image breaks the internet

[Bravus]

(which makes me anticipate attacks on the source. They shared it, they didn't make it)

[Igakusei]

I definitely find some of myself in that picture, too. I was taught to enclose myself in an intellectual prison and not "set foot on the Devil's ground," which IMO is a philosophically indefensible position to take, depending as it does on hope that you were lucky enough to be born to a family who knew all the answers. I now believe that knowledge should not be feared, and that a constant effort to objectively evaluate both sides of every controversy (i.e. letting both sides speak for themselves and making an effort to understand first before making a judgement) is a substantially more reliable way to acquire beliefs that accurately reflect reality.

Sheltered as I was from any ideas that hadn't first been filtered through the SDA bureaucracy, I wish that someone like the present-day me would have taken younger me under their wing.

[cricket]

Is that the reason you share your thoughts, Bravus? To show others that they are not alone?

[cricket]

Igakusei, I'm sorry to hear that you had an intellectual prison enforced around you. I've always been one to encourage my children to think for themselves and to learn of other religions and analyze the religion they've been brought up in. Not many of my church friends did the same, however--so it's not surprising that you grew up in that vein.

[M. T. Cross]

One of the reasons I share my thoughts here is to endeavor to show that no matter which God you may honour, or no God at all, we all share some very basic needs, some basic goodness and in a lot of ways the same basic goals. To be honest for the most part I think I have horribly failed at that, but for some masochistic reason I still try to do it LOL

[Bravus]

Is that the reason you share your thoughts, Bravus? To show others that they are not alone?

Pretty much, yeah. That, and I care about the truth.