Preventing rapists...

[M. T. Cross]

What of all the young men raised by their fathers to view women as individuals that should succumb and submit to male leadership, male dominance and be caregivers for "their men"

I really don't think that helps the situation at all either.

[cricket]

I don't think that helps the situation either, EC.

[olger]

You're quite the editor, Cricket. Are you a writer?

I like the term fatherless - that works.

EC - Male headship. In the partnership of two spiritually equal human beings, man and woman, the man bears the primary responsibility to lead the partnership in a God-glorifying direction. The model of headship is our Lord, the Head of the church who gave Himself for us. Right here is a distinction that many fail to make in our world. The antithesis to male headship is male domination. By male domination I mean the assertion of the man’s will over the woman’s will, heedless of her spiritual equality, rights and value. The Biblical principle of headship will be completely misunderstood if the distinction between male headship and male domination is not kept in mind throughout. Feminism acknowledges no such distinction.

But back to the topic. Rape is a problem, with many causes and one solution. Jesus Christ in the life.

Rejoice always,

G

[olger]

Originally Posted By: olger

Naive!

As to accountability, GOD will hold two people accountable on THAT DAY.

Those who lust, and those who entice!!!

Both at fault.

Wow, simply wow..........

EC, I am not talking about rape here, but rather about the twofold problem of lust and immodesty.

Rape is always wrong. Hope that puts your mind at ease.

G

[bonnie]

What of all the young men raised by their fathers to view women as individuals that should succumb and submit to male leadership, male dominance and be caregivers for "their men"

I really don't think that helps the situation at all either.

In fairness I don't think that was the type of home and father that Olger was referring to.

I don't think raising four boys on my own without a strong male influence by their father would have worked well.

[debbym]

Quote:

What to me is so very startling, and disturbing, about this topic is that more than 2/3 of all rapists are known to the victim. And more than half of all rapes are date rapes. Friends, co-workers, acquaintances, relatives. Arming/protecting women against the threat of the dangerous strangers is not the major part of the problem.

what we believe about rape is very limited because only 10% of rapes are reported to legal authorities.

and then only 10% of reported rapes end in a conviction.

from other sources 1 in three females is sexually assaulted in her lifetime and 1 in five males.

our state is one of few that created a life time containment center for individuals who are recognized or designated as dangerous predators, regardless of the completion of prison sentences for crime.

The State tried to place this special commitment center, SCC, in my town and i was on the committee to resist it, and we were able to avoid it. i was the researcher and wrote a paper for the governor against it.

statistics vary from state to state and country to country. it is a serious problem all over the world. some cultures have more of it then others.

it is about power and expressing control. it is not about just losing control, it is about taking control. when people are acting out anger, they are not just out of control, they are under the control of their emotion, and then may try to bring others under the control of it also.

children and disabled individual are common targets because they are more vulnerable. unfortunately the aged are also targeted because of the same reason.

prevention? role modeling that it is wrong to exercise authority in violent ways, the end does not justify the means. it is a form of violence no matter how it is accomplished. parenting through violence, and justified violence in our society is sowing the wind, to reap the whirlwind.

parental control through discipline of the will, and securing willing obedience is what is needed, rather then dominance and arbitrary control. the principle of Christ vs the principle of coercion.

female are also capable of rape.

[Tom Wetmore]

Ger,

I have no major issue with the ideal Biblical model you describe. But in actual practice and much of the prevailing dogma of Christianity, that is not followed or even taught. Male domination is the norm. And that gives rise to the real crux of the problem, lack of respect for women. Men, from early childhood, are conditioned and taught in many ways that diminish their respect for women.

The church should be taking the lead in teaching men and boys to respect women. But sadly, that does not seem to be the case except for small glimmers of hope - http://www.restoredrelationships.org

Men, download this and start now to do something different - http://www.restoredrelationships.org/media/website/file/Living_as_a_First_Man_Standing.pdf

http://www.christiantoday.com/article/ed...women/31790.htm

[olger]

I like your thoughts Tom, with the exception of one statement: "Male domination is the norm."

Norm for what?

Cuba?

Nairobi?

Sweden?

Indiana?

All Christians everywhere?

Pagans?

Fredericksburg Church?

The Miller family?

Loenfjord Norway?

People who Shack up?

Loving couples who have been married for 31 years?

I agree that respect should be taught, and it is much easier taught by men who love their wives and pray with them. Children see this. Men who procreate and abandon are also teaching - disrespect and that principles don't matter.

rejoice always,

G

[bonnie]

I like your thoughts Tom, with the exception of one statement: "Male domination is the norm."

Norm for what?

Cuba?

Nairobi?

Sweden?

Indiana?

All Christians everywhere?

Pagans?

Fredericksburg Church?

The Miller family?

Loenfjord Norway?

People who Shack up?

Loving couples who have been married for 31 years?

I agree that respect should be taught, and it is much easier taught by men who love their wives and pray with them. Children see this. Men who procreate and abandon are also teaching - disrespect and that principles don't matter.

rejoice always,

Men are not the only ones that play a significant role.Many homes are fatherless or have only a minor male role model because of the women involved.

Many men are not active in the lives of their children because of a mother that makes it virtually impossible.

I know several men that have spent untold thousands of dollars

in an attempt to get more than the one day a week and every other weekend.Sometimes successful and many times not. And even that was many times disrupted by the mother as well as a daily running condemnation of the absent father without ever explaining to the children why.

Along with numerous "uncles" going thru a revolving bedroom door.

That is not a very healthy message to leave either a son or daughter with.

[CoAspen]

Good ideas and suggestions, EC!

[CoAspen]

Good list, Rudy!

[CoAspen]

Your correct EC, some would still make it about women.

Quote:

He must learn from a man.

Who better to learn from on how to treat women, than a Mother! I find the above statment pure hogwash! The bad treatment of women comes from other men and their few point of women. If I were a women, I would find the above statement insulting, meant only to put forth a paticular view point. Yes, a male is important, just as a female is important in a childs life. There are somethings that each can tecah a child, but how to treat others is NOT just assigned to one or the other. An enviroment that teaches the male is the dominant would seem to leave a female with less choices in their reactions to males in many situations both good and bad.

[Gail]

I just read this thread for the first time and thanks to everyone for a informative read! I appreciate it!

[debbym]

according to some research, in all countries of the world and all cultures, men's greatest fear of women is being ridiculed or laughed at. women's greatest fear of men is being killed.

so our tongue can also be a threat and do social violence.

(teen age girls are considered the most dangerous with their words. And have driven their friends to suicide with their words.)

back to this somewhat universal difference between men and women... men tend to resort to physical action women to verbal action, when exercising personal power. so this corresponds to more male rapes and more violent criminals being men, and actually more completed suicides are by men.

i don't think we are going to be able to eliminate male tendency to act out. a certain percentage of the population for various reasons is going to be in deficit of healthy inhibition of harmful aggressive behavior. Drug use, substance abuse, and various addictions do not help any.

we do have a responsibility to be protective and accept this element exists.

a females carelessness in conducting herself in a save or unsafe manner is not what causes rape, ever. but there are things she can do to be safer, given the danger element does exist out there. if it never was in anyone to rape it just would not happen. This is the source of it.

[bonnie]

we do have a responsibility to be protective and accept this element exists.

a females carelessness in conducting herself in a save or unsafe manner is not what causes rape, ever. but there are things she can do to be safer, given the danger element does exist out there. if it never was in anyone to rape it just would not happen. This is the source of it.

A serial rapist is somewhat a different kettle of fish.Girls are being raised to believe that "it is their right" to push all the yes buttons and at the last minute to push the no button,and it is. At the same time the "advice" as to the very likely danger they are placing themselves in is lacking leaving them feeling if they say "No" that will take care of it.

Women and girls are as guilty for fostering a very dangerous environment.From very little on they are dressed to attract as much attention as they possibly can. Little girls in very brief bikini's are not uncommon at our local beach. A very good education on girls child abuse can be had simply by watching the "child's beauty pageants"

3 and 4 year olds dressed as Madonna and Lady Gaga,everyone commenting on how adorable they are. They are told to flirt with the judges,fed drinks loaded with caffeine,sugar straws filled with flavored sugar so they can appear perky and "sexy"

on stage. Everyone competing to be seen as the most beautiful and the most desirable.Teenage girls aren't any different.

They want the attention of the opposite sex,they are not necessarily looking for respect but admiration for their body and face until they get scared it is going to far.

Regardless of the education of boys we do not and never will have this idealistic utopian world where the young men will quickly advert their eyes when coming in contact with a scantily clad young woman.Nor are they going to be educated to view scantily clad suggestive young women with respect.

It still doesn't change what I would have expected from my sons. First and foremost the importance of keeping themselves out of that type of situation and the bottom line is if the word No is used,they cannot be excused by blaming the actions of the girls.

I am still far more interested in my granddaughters safety and welfare than I am their right to behave as they wish.

[JoeMo]

As some have implied here, rape is not a crime of passion. It is a crime of violence. What better way to humiliate and "beat up" a woman or a girl than by raping her? In prison, rape is the most common form of assault between same-gender people - mostly for humiliation and to show the "rapee" who is boss. Both men and women need to be educated about rape and other violent crimes. It's not just a matter of "no means no"; it's a more general matter of mutual respect and honor. No one has a "right" to violate anyone's person whether it's rape, assault and battery, or verbal abuse.

Someone said something like "a man must learn from a man". Most abusive men (including rapists) "learned" about abusing women from an abusive male relative - frequently a father who abused the mother and/or sisters. When a person is disposed towards violence and abuse, it seldom takes "just" seductive dress and/or dirty talk to set them off.

Appropriate penalty for rape is public castration. The person who was raped should be given the option to wield the knife (or chain saw).

[cricket]

If you're going to go around mutilating and cutting off people's body parts--you'd better be d@#%ed sure they are guilty.

[Bravus]

[JoeMo]

Quote:

If you're going to go around mutilating and cutting off people's body parts--you'd better be d@#%ed sure they are guilty.

You're right cricket - I took that last statement too far. I apologize.

I just think rape is about the mose heinous crime there is. I know several people who were in one way or another sexually abused. It changes them forever - and not very often for the better.

[cricket]

Quote:

If you're going to go around mutilating and cutting off people's body parts--you'd better be d@#%ed sure they are guilty.

You're right cricket - I took that last statement too far. I apologize.

I just think rape is about the mose heinous crime there is. I know several people who were in one way or another sexually abused. It changes them forever - and not very often for the better.

I agree.

Interestingly enough, I think it can be said that any sexual activity outside of marriage "changes a person forever" and "not very often for the better." (But that's a different topic.)

[bonnie]

As some have implied here, rape is not a crime of passion. It is a crime of violence. What better way to humiliate and "beat up" a woman or a girl than by raping her? In prison, rape is the most common form of assault between same-gender people - mostly for humiliation and to show the "rapee" who is boss. Both men and women need to be educated about rape and other violent crimes. It's not just a matter of "no means no"; it's a more general matter of mutual respect and honor. No one has a "right" to violate anyone's person whether it's rape, assault and battery, or verbal abuse.

Someone said something like "a man must learn from a man". Most abusive men (including rapists) "learned" about abusing women from an abusive male relative - frequently a father who abused the mother and/or sisters. When a person is disposed towards violence and abuse, it seldom takes "just" seductive dress and/or dirty talk to set them off.

Appropriate penalty for rape is public castration. The person who was raped should be given the option to wield the knife (or chain saw).

just" seductive dress and/or dirty talk to set them off.

I was referring to the more common date rape. And that is hardly enough to set someone off.However,that along with all yes buttons being pushed and then suddenly the big No can have serious consequences.

When that young man believes by the mutual behavior being engaged in that he has been hearing the big Yes right along and has never learned self discipline,self control he may not listen well to No.

It doesn't excuse it,make it the girls fault or less than rape.

Parents,both mother's and father's have a responsibility not only to their sons but their daughters as well.

Dead right in a morgue is not a very attractive end to "It is my right"

[olger]

"Appropriate penalty for rape is castration."

I like this ! Just make sure that they are guilty and ...boom.

[bonnie]

"Appropriate penalty for rape is castration."

I like this ! Just make sure that they are guilty and ...boom.

That wouldn't work well either.First would come the song and dance of extenuating circumstances and then did he mean to. And of course consideration would have to be made for the fact he had never been in trouble before.

[olger]

Your correct EC, some would still make it about women.

Quote:

He must learn from a man.

Who better to learn from on how to treat women, than a Mother! I find the above statment pure hogwash! The bad treatment of women comes from other men and their few point of women. If I were a women, I would find the above statement insulting, meant only to put forth a paticular view point. Yes, a male is important, just as a female is important in a childs life. There are somethings that each can tecah a child, but how to treat others is NOT just assigned to one or the other. An enviroment that teaches the male is the dominant would seem to leave a female with less choices in their reactions to males in many situations both good and bad.

Hi Coasp. You are unjustifiably sensitive on this point for some reason. I can speculate, but won't.

If a boy has no father in his life, then he must learn from other men how to be a man. Each of us guys need five older men we can learn positive things from. If our father is one of those - GREAT. If not, we must learn from other men.

Now let me address a couple logical fallacies in your above paragraph.

If the "bad treatment of women comes from other men and their 'few' point of women.." then it logically follows that the proper treatment of women would also come from other men.

Male domination. Male leadership is both Biblical and separate from what you are referring to as "male domination." It's hard to have a logical dialogue when these unwarranted assumptions keep getting in the way. The problem with feminism (and those who buy into feminist ideology) is they make no distinction between male domination and male headship. I agree that domination is not a good thing. Headship is an honorable thing.

I also will state again that a boy cannot learn how to be a man from a woman. He must learn from another man or men. Jim Dobson has known this for decades, along with Mark Gungor, James Wilder, Anne Moir, Bob Mueller, Laura Schlessinger, Elizabeth Elliott Nancy Lee DeMoss, and a thousand others.

There are many good things we can learn from our mothers, as Paul said to Timothy, and how to be a man isn't one of them. That may be why Paul took Timothy under his wing - I like to think so.

Peace and blessings,

G

[cricket]

Quote:

The problem with feminism (and those who buy into feminist ideology) is they make no distinction between male domination and male headship.

That is your understanding, but it is not mine. I do not share your belief, Olger.