Senator Portman GOP changes mind about Defense of Marriage

[BobRyan]

http://news.msn.com/politics/gop-sen-portman-of-ohio-now-supports-gay-marriage

Quote:

Portman said his views on gay marriage began changing in 2011, when his son, Will, then a freshman at Yale University, told his parents he was ga

Have you met any SDAs who do that as well? Change doctrine as soon as a family member adopts a position that conflicts with known Bible teaching on a given moral subject?

Are we losing our ability to stand for the truth as revealed in God's Word as soon as we find it inconvenient?

in Christ,

Bob

[Bravus]

Or, indeed, learn compassion when it suddenly effects them? Would that their compassion extended to those beyond immediate family.

[CoAspen]

[debbym]

Quote:

Poster: BobRyan

http://news.msn.com/politics/gop-sen-portman-of-ohio-now-supports-gay-marriage

Quote:

Portman said his views on gay marriage began changing in 2011, when his son, Will, then a freshman at Yale University, told his parents he was gay

Have you met any SDAs who do that as well? Change doctrine as soon as a family member adopts a position that conflicts with known Bible teaching on a given moral subject?

Are we losing our ability to stand for the truth as revealed in God's Word as soon as we find it inconvenient?

Homophobia is not Godliness.

There is a bible text that says the righteousness of God is not wrought by the wrath of man.

If a person loses their hatred or fear or anger towards homosexuals, this does not mean they have lost their God awareness.

These marriage laws do not change the revulsion some people have towards homosexuality. Nor does it make gay marriage representative of the ideal marriage in Eden.

If gay marriage is not "marriage" in the sense a person knows it, maybe it is a distress in language that is happening? Like hearing Sunday called Sabbath. Calling Sunday Sabbath does not make it so either.

Neither have all the laws regarding racism caused anyone to become less racist. But if are a deep dyed in the wool racist and your son or daughter married an African American, it might go a long ways over time to desensitize your racial bigotry, especially when those grand-babies come along.

How do you take a stand against gay marriage, talk about it behind closed doors? How do you take a stand against Sunday sacredness, it has been going on a long time. Is there a special thread about it?

Do you understand God loves those who believe Sunday is sacred, just as he loves people who are in gay marriages? Does God view both of these errors with much the same kind of mercy, sorrow, and love?

[M. T. Cross]

http://news.msn.com/politics/gop-sen-portman-of-ohio-now-supports-gay-marriage

Quote:

Portman said his views on gay marriage began changing in 2011, when his son, Will, then a freshman at Yale University, told his parents he was ga

Have you met any SDAs who do that as well? Change doctrine as soon as a family member adopts a position that conflicts with known Bible teaching on a given moral subject?

Are we losing our ability to stand for the truth as revealed in God's Word as soon as we find it inconvenient?

in Christ,

Bob

Its called growth. Its a travesty that more people don't participate in it. Maybe if they did we would not have kids from age 8 up killing themselves because they think they are gay.

[olger]

Disappointed in Rob, but politicians are not a dependable brain trust for morals anyway. So I don't expect too much. Without Jesus and the Word of God, there is no lasting reason to oppose these things!

G

[phkrause]

Its called growth. Its a travesty that more people don't participate in it. Maybe if they did we would not have kids from age 8 up killing themselves because they think they are gay.

I'm gonna disagree you you here. I don't see it that way! I see it going from intolerance to tolerance. Jesus tells us to love the sinner not the sin. As far as kids killing themselves, it has more to do with people not tolerating them. Also they are being fed from society that they are born that way, so they believe this. So far as this forum is concerned there is only one person that can really speak to this matter and that would be John316! He, at least from what I've seen, is the only one that has let us know that he has lived that lifestyle. He has also posted an article to this point in a thread he started. Not sure the name of the thread so you'll have to look for it. If I find it I'll post the link.

[M. T. Cross]

Originally Posted By: EmptyCross

Its called growth. Its a travesty that more people don't participate in it. Maybe if they did we would not have kids from age 8 up killing themselves because they think they are gay.

I'm gonna disagree you you here. I don't see it that way! I see it going from intolerance to tolerance. Jesus tells us to love the sinner not the sin. As far as kids killing themselves, it has more to do with people not tolerating them. Also they are being fed from society that they are born that way, so they believe this. So far as this forum is concerned there is only one person that can really speak to this matter and that would be John316! He, at least from what I've seen, is the only one that has let us know that he has lived that lifestyle. He has also posted an article to this point in a thread he started. Not sure the name of the thread so you'll have to look for it. If I find it I'll post the link.

Unwittingly so I think you have actually made my point for me PK. This forum only has one person (now that Parade does not post here) that openly admits to homosexuality. I would put any amount of money on it that there are others that have had these feelings, that have questioned their own sexuality and I would guess likely took the Christian hard line on it in the end because of pressure and fear.

Tolerance is the key. But tolerance will never be achieved as long as people are teaching their children to condemn others for being gay, transgendered etc. Yes the Bible might tell its followers to love the sinner and hate the sin, but in reality how much does that happen? How well do people differentiate between the two and put it into practice? From what I have seen in all the walks of my life, it is very very rare.

[phkrause]

Tolerance is the key. But tolerance will never be achieved as long as people are teaching their children to condemn others for being gay, transgendered etc.

I'm in agreement here with you. Its kinda like the situation with the Jews and the Palestinians. The Palestinians are raised to hate or not tolerate the Jews. And as long as this continues there will never be piece. I know its not a great example, but I figured it does show how intolerance to someone or thing works. But as far as Jews and Arabs that really is another issue. But back to the tolerance issue. To tolerate doesn't mean to condone, I think many that don't want to tolerate think that if they do they are condoning a lifestyle that the Bible says is a sin.

[M. T. Cross]

Originally Posted By: EmptyCross

Tolerance is the key. But tolerance will never be achieved as long as people are teaching their children to condemn others for being gay, transgendered etc.

I'm in agreement here with you. Its kinda like the situation with the Jews and the Palestinians. The Palestinians are raised to hate or not tolerate the Jews. And as long as this continues there will never be piece. I know its not a great example, but I figured it does show how intolerance to someone or thing works. But as far as Jews and Arabs that really is another issue. But back to the tolerance issue. To tolerate doesn't mean to condone, I think many that don't want to tolerate think that if they do they are condoning a lifestyle that the Bible says is a sin.

Actually I think that Palestine and Israel are great examples. I watched a documentary thing a few years back. They were asking Palestinian and Israeli children - pre-school age - what they thought of the other side. The levels of hatred and lust for the deaths of the other side were mind blowing.

I see that too much in our culture here, against people that are part of our culture.

[GoLions]

Its called growth.

What you call growth I call backsliding.

[M. T. Cross]

So you think people should be treated with bigotry and hate?

[Gerr]

I still believe that same sex unions are an abomination to God, but having thought and wrestled about this issue, since we are in a multi-cultural secular society, I am now leaning in the direction that the state has the right to grant rights to all citizens without discrimination. I do not believe this is a change in doctrine as to it being an abomination. I do not believe the church should change its view for its members.

[phkrause]

I still believe that same sex unions are an abomination to God, but having thought and wrestled about this issue, since we are in a multi-cultural secular society, I am now leaning in the direction that the state has the right to grant rights to all citizens without discrimination. I do not believe this is a change in doctrine as to it being an abomination. I do not believe the church should change its view for its members.

[M. T. Cross]

I still believe that same sex unions are an abomination to God, but having thought and wrestled about this issue, since we are in a multi-cultural secular society, I am now leaning in the direction that the state has the right to grant rights to all citizens without discrimination. I do not believe this is a change in doctrine as to it being an abomination. I do not believe the church should change its view for its members.

Absolutely Gerry, which is what I have been saying all along. I don't understand that doctrinal view, but thats not the issue in this case. The doctrine of a denomination should not impact on political decisions.

[BobRyan]

The state has been legislating in the realm of the last 6 commandments for centuries and the SDA denomination is on record in the 19th century as fully approving of this (hint polygamy outlawed even though that law conflicted with the religious conviction of Mormons).

This was the position of Ellen White AND of our R.L department in the person of A.T. Jones as he made the case for it in congress in his testimony before Senator Blair regarding the Blair amendment.

Not all Christians will agree with the position of the SDA church on that point - and certainly we would not expect non-Christians to agree with it.

But it is a fact and has been that way since the start of this denomination.

The fact that those engaged in the abominations mentioned in Lev 18 happen to agree to doing it - does not stop God from wiping out the nation that does it - according to Lev 18. In fact Lev 18 says that God will even wipe out pagan nations that do those things.

If the state has an interest in not being wiped off the face of the earth - then we can not blame them for legislating against those things listed in Lev 18. Things that (by the way) do not include idolatry and Sabbath breaking or eating pork or blasphemy.

in Christ,

Bob

[BobRyan]

Disappointed in Rob, but politicians are not a dependable brain trust for morals anyway. So I don't expect too much. Without Jesus and the Word of God, there is no lasting reason to oppose these things!

G

Unless a given nation would like to "survive" the wrath of God that according to Lev 18 wiped out the pagan nations prior to Israel - that engaged in certain abominations.

As long as the state is interested in survival - and is not totally dead to the Spirit of God - there will be seen restraint in those areas.

Cancer is a form of "growth" that is not as helpful to the body as some may have hoped. (As it turns out)

in Christ,

Bob

[bonnie]

[BobRyan]

Your point is well made.

Thanks.

[BobRyan]

Originally Posted By: EmptyCross

Its called growth.

What you call growth I call backsliding.

Cancer grows.

The question is whether the state has an interest in survival.

[BobRyan]

Homophobia is not Godliness.

There is a bible text that says the righteousness of God is not wrought by the wrath of man.

If a person loses their hatred or fear or anger towards homosexuals, this does not mean they have lost their God awareness.

These marriage laws do not change the revulsion some people have towards homosexuality. Nor does it make gay marriage representative of the ideal marriage in Eden.

If gay marriage is not "marriage" in the sense a person knows it, maybe it is a distress in language that is happening? Like hearing Sunday called Sabbath. Calling Sunday Sabbath does not make it so either.

Neither have all the laws regarding racism caused anyone to become less racist. But if are a deep dyed in the wool racist and your son or daughter married an African American, it might go a long ways over time to desensitize your racial bigotry, especially when those grand-babies come along.

How do you take a stand against gay marriage, talk about it behind closed doors? How do you take a stand against Sunday sacredness, it has been going on a long time. Is there a special thread about it?

Do you understand God loves those who believe Sunday is sacred, just as he loves people who are in gay marriages? Does God view both of these errors with much the same kind of mercy, sorrow, and love?

[bonnie]

Homophobia is not Godliness.

[BobRyan]

Take any sin you wish and add "phobia" to then end of it - and somehow that makes it a protected sin not to be spoken against among Christians.

That is a not so convincing trick that is used sometimes to try to find air cover for a sin that God calls an abomination.

As if it is unkind to call sin by its right name and condemn it. After all - some person that enjoys or promotes that sin might feel "less than" if they find out that the sin is not well spoken of.

But if you stop and think about it - are we not all in the boat of having our sins "not well spoken of"?? So why should sins that have a man-made toy suffix of "phobia" be any exception? are we so easily duped into falling for the "yes but I added phobia to the end of that sin so now you can't notice that it is sin" game?

Really?? Who goes for that outside of the SECC??

in Christ,

Bob

[Gerr]

Very good questions. But since we are not a theocracy, at this point in my thinking, I would leave it to the courts to answer those questions. In the meantime, let us continue to teach our members and whoever else would listen, what is right and wrong as revealed in His word.

[BobRyan]

Good questions.

Something to think about.

in Christ,

Bob