Climategate leaker: Our civilization is being killed by lying “science

[Bravus]

How is it cynical to believe the truth? If I were saying 'well, I don't really believe that humans cause climate change, or that it is happening, but it advances my economic and social goals so I'll pretend I do', *that* would be cynical. Rather, I am saying 'to the best of my knowledge, after actively seeking information, I believe this problem is real, and I am already acting on it in my own life and attempting to persuade others to do likewise'. That is genuine, sincere, authentic: the *opposite* of cynical.

[phkrause]

How is it cynical to believe the truth? If I were saying 'well, I don't really believe that humans cause climate change, or that it is happening, but it advances my economic and social goals so I'll pretend I do', *that* would be cynical. Rather, I am saying 'to the best of my knowledge, after actively seeking information, I believe this problem is real, and I am already acting on it in my own life and attempting to persuade others to do likewise'. That is genuine, sincere, authentic: the *opposite* of cynical.

[olger]

This is great

White Easter: Germany Faces Coldest March Since 1883

http://www.spiegel.de/international/euro...r-a-891468.html

[olger]

"It’s the cold, not global warming, that we should be worried about."

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/elderh...ried-about.html

[olger]

Britain's colder than the Arctic: -10c freeze over Easter.

http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/387878/Britain-s-colder-than-the-Arctic-10c-freeze-over-Easter

[Bravus]

Yes. More extreme weather is *exactly* what global warming causes. Solar energy drives the weather system. More energy, more extremes in every direction.

This is not rocket surgery.

[Neil D]

Your protestations remind me of the story of a rich man who had a huge amount of wealth...Unfortunately, one day he found out that he was dying...and he called a Priest...He asked the Priest to ask God if he could take his wealth with him...the priest assured him that God wasn't going to need it, but the man insisted...finally, the priest had told him so many times that he could not take his wealth with him that out of exasperation, the priest told the man to take it to God. If God made allowances, then who was he to stand in the way of God....So, the man asked God....and after some thought, God say that he could take it with him....The man was pleased, but God said, "You can only take 2 luggage bags...that is all." "Not a problem" said the man...And he converted all his stocks,bonds and cash to gold. He instructed in his will that the gold was to be placed in two luggage and buried with him and the rest distributed between his immediate relatives. Being obiedient relatives, they did what was requested in the will....

And the man went to the pearly gates with his two pieces of luggage...and met St. Peter...."Oh yeah" said St. Peter after he got the explanation as to why he was carrying two pieces of luggage into heaven. "I remember now. You're the one that God allowed to take part of it with you." "That's right, " said the man proudly...."Well, let's see what you got here." said St. Peter...and as he opened it up, he saw the gold. " Pavement!!!" exclaimed St. Peter. "You brought pavement to heaven??? What in the world possessed you to bring pavement to heaven...???"

I know you don't believe in climate change, but it is in the bible. And no where in the bible does it say that somethings HAVE to come before the sun scorches the earth..I suspect that there will be much worse than this before that prophecy is concidered fulfilled....Doesn't mean that the pre-cursers can not come before the end....Try to have a good day, Olger

[olger]

Yes. More extreme weather is *exactly* what global warming causes. Solar energy drives the weather system. More energy, more extremes in every direction.

This is not rocket surgery.

Next you will be saying that light causes darkness. I get a real kick out of these ACGW devotees...

[olger]

I know you don't believe in climate change, but it is in the bible.

True!

"God called the light "day," and the darkness he called "night." And there was evening, and there was morning--the first day."

There is global warming every day! Today it happened about 7:05 AM.

[Tom Wetmore]

Originally Posted By: Bravus

Yes. More extreme weather is *exactly* what global warming causes. Solar energy drives the weather system. More energy, more extremes in every direction.

This is not rocket surgery.

Next you will be saying that light causes darkness. I get a real kick out of these ACGW devotees...

You clearly haven't been paying attention... It really isn't that difficult if you just take the time to actually understand it.

Global warming is about an upward trend in average global temperatures. It doesn't mean that all temperatures everywhere rise all the time. As Bravus said, that results in more extreme weather patterns, both summer and winter. Hotter summers, colder winters, more extreme storms of all sorts and shifting climate regions. And we have indeed been seeing all of that.

[olger]

This is great. Climate-Changers get really vindictive when the truth disagree with their green-goals.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-...ence-wrong.html

[olger]

Thickening ice in Antarctica caused by global warming !!!!

(that's what the gangreens are now saying!)

Guess that means that any ice melting is caused by cooling.

[olger]

In spite of the released e-mails from the University of East Anglia that prove that the whole Global Warming/Climate Change thing is a political hoax, some of you want to believe that it's true.

I wouldn't be surprised if a number of you do -- and here's why. The way you've been approached on this is to first make you feel guilty. And if not you personally, at least other Americans who've been living their lives too "irresponsibly" without concern for the environment. They've been polluting, they've been wasting electricity with 100-watt bulbs, they've been driving big cars or trucks, they've been cooling or warming their homes too much, whatever. You have been made to feel appropriately guilty or angry, but then you have been offered absolution. This is the point where 'science' ends and religion begins.

You've been offered a way out of the guilt for having contributed to the destruction of the planet, and that is if you will go out and buy a hybrid, or if you will oppose oil companies, or if you will oppose fracking... If you will oppose the Keystone pipeline, if you will oppose the growth of any fossil fuel industry, then you're a good person. If you will agree that people need to pay higher taxes in order to save the planet, you're a good person. They've offered you absolution.

It's all a hoax. A deceptive hoax masquerading as a religion. Think it through...

g

[M. T. Cross]

In spite of the released e-mails from the University of East Anglia that prove that the whole Global Warming/Climate Change thing is a political hoax, some of you want to believe that it's true.

I wouldn't be surprised if a number of you do -- and here's why. The way you've been approached on this is to first make you feel guilty. And if not you personally, at least other Americans who've been living their lives too "irresponsibly" without concern for the environment. They've been polluting, they've been wasting electricity with 100-watt bulbs, they've been driving big cars or trucks, they've been cooling or warming their homes too much, whatever. You have been made to feel appropriately guilty or angry, but then you have been offered absolution. This is the point where 'science' ends and religion begins.

You've been offered a way out of the guilt for having contributed to the destruction of the planet, and that is if you will go out and buy a hybrid, or if you will oppose oil companies, or if you will oppose fracking... If you will oppose the Keystone pipeline, if you will oppose the growth of any fossil fuel industry, then you're a good person. If you will agree that people need to pay higher taxes in order to save the planet, you're a good person. They've offered you absolution.

It's all a hoax. A deceptive hoax masquerading as a religion. Think it through...

g

I find the highlighted text ironic considering you are opposing the idea of GLOBAL warming.

[Bravus]

More lies and/or errors. Again, I'll pick one example: when the graph says 'figures to the left of this line are not predictions', that is incorrect. To the left of the line the predictions of the model are compared to historical data. That is how a model is tested: if it reliably maps to historical data it is plausible that it will map to future data.

Further irony: you yourself posted a paper in this very thread with a highly plausible explanation of the 'pause' in heating. It suggests that the model needs to take this relatively new factor into account, but does *not* establish that the model is either incorrect or fraudulent.

Someone who has demonstrated an inability to distinguish between weather and climate is not someone from whom I'll be taking lessons on climate science...

[CoAspen]

Quote:

It's all a hoax. A deceptive hoax masquerading as a religion. Think it through...

Take your own advice! You are trying to hoax everyone by calling 'environmentalism' a religion in order to attack it. Very sad, is this what God has called you to do??

[Tom Wetmore]

Adding to that is the seemingly willful blindness that the hoax is actually perpetuated by those with a much stronger economic interest in ignoring the problem. All of the identified "political" interests, the forces on the opposite side have a far greater motivation to preserve economic interests in opposing any environmentalist interests. Don' t let a pesky idea of protecting the earth get in the way of making a buck!

[BobRyan]

Fascinating.

http://canadafreepress.com/index.php/article/54064

[olger]

Colorado admits certain defeat in renewable energy lawsuit.

http://gpm.r.mailjet.com/1AVt.html?a=2XvZRO&b=3d6b5ce3&email=calvin%40cornwallalliance.org

ATI sued Colorado alleging that its Renewable Portfolio Standard (requiring certain percentages of its electricity to be generated from wind, solar, and other "renewable" sources) violates the interstate commerce clause of the Constitution. It appears that Colorado's legislature is preparing amendments to the law to save it from judicial negation, which entails that the legislature recognizes that ATI's case is constitutionally correct. The same vulnerability could be inherent in RPS's all over the country. The renewable energy industry isn't going to be happy about this.

Nice to see the Constitution win once in a while.

[olger]

For Immediate Release – April 4, 2013

Contact: Craig Richardson, Executive Director, American Tradition Institute

craig.r@atinstitute.org

COLORADO ADMITS CERTAIN DEFEAT IN RENEWABLE ENERGY LAWSUIT

WITH INTRODUCTION OF NEW BILL

Cooperatives, Jobs, and Consumers Among Biggest Losers in

State’s Latest Failed Renewable Energy Attempt

DENVER - Facing certain defeat in a federal lawsuit challenging the constitutionality of Colorado’s Renewable Energy Standard mandate, lawmakers attempted to “fix” major elements of the law with the introduction of Senate Bill 13-252 yesterday. In doing so, members of the Colorado Senate and House admitted that the state’s law imposing a renewable energy standard is unconstitutional.

This admission is of national significance and validates the lawsuit brought by the American Tradition Institute on behalf of Colorado ratepayers. In effect, Colorado is telling all states that have similar statutes that they are vulnerable to legal challenge and will have to change their laws to remove preferences for in-state producers. Among states with such discrimination in their laws, California is the biggest offender.

ATI may still have to argue these unconstitutional preferences in court, however, because the bill is not a done deal. It contains “poison pills” that Colorado ratepayers and their representatives may not wish to swallow. The bill more than doubles the amount of renewable energy that electrical cooperatives must purchase by 2020, while also allowing these coops to immediately double the amount they charge for renewable energy. Further, the new, higher renewable energy standard cannot be achieved.

“This bill appears to remove some, but not all of the unconstitutional elements of the statute,” says Dr. David Schnare, Director of ATI’s Environmental Law Center and lead counsel for the plaintiffs, “but it also mandates new unconstitutional requirements by increasing the renewables standard to levels that, that like the current statute, cannot be justified when balanced against the harm they cause to interstate commerce.”

The bill’s sponsors have not publicly discussed their legislation, but its impact appears to be large. Based on the Beacon Hill Institute’s study of the Colorado renewables standard, this change in the law is going to mean the loss of thousands of Colorado jobs and increases in affected ratepayers’ bills by hundreds of dollars over the next seven years.

“Colorado knows it’s on the losing side of our lawsuit against their renewable energy mandate, and legislators are trying to sneak a bill through that magically makes it constitutional,” said Craig Richardson, Executive Director of the American Tradition Institute. “Their original renewable energy law is not only unconstitutional but it’s bad policy, and trying to fix it years later is like putting lipstick on a pig. The new bill, like the current law, still violates the constitution, and worse yet, it drives up the cost of energy in Colorado, kills jobs, and has no positive impact on the environment.”

“Wind power remains a high-cost, unreliable and therefore low-quality source of electricity and the portions of our law suit that this bill does not reach will put wind on trial,” concluded Dr. Schnare.

ATI’s Environmental Law Institute is a non-profit advocacy organization that brought its case against Colorado because the renewable energy standard actually causes harm to the environment, does not protect public health, causes economic loses for labor and rate payers and violates the Interstate Commerce Clause of the U.S. Constitution.

American Tradition Institute (ATI) is a public policy research and public interest litigation foundation advocating restoration of science and free-market principles on environmental issues, including air and water quality and regulation, responsible land use, natural resource management, energy development, property rights, and principles of stewardship. All supporting documents and images regarding the above-referenced litigation and findings may be accessed at www.atinstitute.org.

[Tom Wetmore]

ATI is just front organization for conservative political causes...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Tradition_Partnership

http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/arch...y-group/264248/

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/big-sky-big-money/

[olger]

Conservative causes are a whole heap better than the liberal stuff coming out of DC, BUT that's another story.

Tell me, lawyer. Are you denying that Colorado is amending this law?

Hmm?

Hmm?

Hmm?

I did not think so.

[Tom Wetmore]

ATI -- brought to you thanks to the generous sponsorship of the Colorado Mining industry... Great environmentalists that they are...

Ger, before I have anything to say on the matter, I think I would prefer to inform myself from reliable and objective sources, as opposed to the political operatives of the aggressively environmentally insensitive fossil fuel energy and mining industry.

[CoAspen]

Ya, we've been down this road before....what I have learned from some posters is that 'truth is important' only if one agrees with it...willful ignorance of ATI's true allegiance...what can you say!

[Tom Wetmore]

Yes, From what it appears to me, ATI is just the shill for the sector of the energy industry that is excluded from the benefit of this law. From what I can tell from a quick look at the Bill, it looks like the special interests represented by ATI will continue to be excluded. They really do not have as an objective to serve the interests of the citizens of Colorado.

Here is the Bill in question -

http://www.leg.state.co.us/clics/clics2013a/csl.nsf/billcontainers/D1B329AEB8681D4D87257B3900716761/$FILE/252_01.pdf