1844 Made Simple

[phkrause]

If you throw out the 2300 days, which also includes the 70 weeks, and say that it somehow applies to some other time. Then you can't even prove that Jesus was the Son of God, using scripture. It is the only time prophecy that points to the exact time when Jesus would come.

Without that you have now real basis for being a Christian, using scripture. I guess you can say you believe on some other basis, but the 2300 days, and the 70 weeks is the solid proof.

It shows that He came right on time, according to scripture. Fulfilled prophecy is irrefutable.

Exactly

[8thdaypriest]

Yes - Mrs. White I believe called her gift the "lesser light."

Are you putting Mrs. White as equal to the Bible?? I don't think she did.

[Green Cochoa]

Yes - Mrs. White I believe called her gift the "lesser light."

Are you putting Mrs. White as equal to the Bible?? I don't think she did.

[Green Cochoa]

Jackson,

Very well said. The "day and hour" spoken of in Matthew 24:36 of which we will not know, not even the angels will know, is not that of the second coming. It is the day and hour of probation's close.

The angels will surely know when the second coming is. Mrs. White tells us that the day and hour will be announced by a voice from the sky days before the actual event. But none will know the time of his or her probation's close. This is the "hour of judgment" to be ready for now.

One cannot graduate if he or she has not passed the final exams. The graduation is the ceremony--but the more important day, for it decided whether or not the graduation would occur--is the exam day. We will not go to Heaven if we have been found wanting at that time. By the date of the second coming, everyone's eternal destiny is already decided.

Blessings,

Green Cochoa.

[8thdaypriest]

First - thank you Jackson for the information about the Hillel I calendar. I will look that one up.

At my website I have a section titled "Prophecies of Messiah Fulfilled." There are sooooooooooo many. The probability of even 8 of the major prophecies being fulfilled by one man is 10 to the 17th power. That number of silver dollars would cover the whole state of Texas in a layer 2 feet deep.

Why do I NEED the 490 year prophecy, to convince others that Jesus Christ fulfilled prophecy?

I have no problem with the 70 week prophecy, I just don't tie it to the 2300 evening mornings.

I asked three different Rabbis the tense of that word "cleansed" in Daniel 8:14. Each one said "perfect tense" meaning the cleansing is finished at the end of the time period - not just starting.

I believe the judgment of Daniel 7:9-14 is ABOUT CHRIST, not about us. Should Christ have the dominion? Should dominion be taken from Satan? That is the question being decided at THAT judgment. Satan's charges against the government of Yahweh must be answered. The Father COULD just pronounce the verdict, but I believe He governs with the consent of the governed. I believe the unfallen beings of the entire universe will decide this verdict.

Christ does not HAVE the dominion - YET.

When HE receives the dominion, THEN He will come to execute judgment. He already knows who belong to Him. He has a personal relationship with each one. He doesn't need time to figure it out. And if that wasn't enough, He has the Urimm and Thummim on His shoulders, so the Father can tell Him instantly.

The reason WHY "judgment was made in favor of the saints of the Most High" (and not simply Christ) is BECAUSE Christ will share His rule with us. WHEN He receives the dominion, it is TIME "for the saints to possess the kingdom" (Daniel 7:22).

Leading up to the end, "the saints shall be given into his hand for a time and times and half a time, BUT the court shall be seated and they shall take away his (SATAN's) dominion, to consume and destroy it forever." "Then the kingdom and dominion, and the greatness of the kingdoms under the whole heaven shall be given to the people the saints of the Most High." (Daniel 7:26-27).

Does anyone besides me see the similarity between 7:22, and 7:26-27?

The "saints" will repeat the 3.5 year ministry of Christ.

Rev. 11:2 says the "two witnesses" testify for 42 months.

Then they're killed, but resurrected after 3.5 days.

They are the two lampstands that are left after 5 of the 7 are removed.

Smyrna and Philadelphia -Martyers and those with brotherly love.

So - I don't think the 1260 days ended back in 1798, and covered the reign of the Catholic Church - terrible as "she" was.

www.prophecyviewpoint.com

Shalom

[8thdaypriest]

Hair said, "God knows the day." I agree.

But I believe Daniel 12:7

"It shall be for a time, times and half a time; and when the power of the holy people has been completely shattered, all these things shall be finished."

There's that same time period again, leading up to the "finish." WHAT THINGS will be finished?

Daniel 12:1-2

The time of trouble.

The resurrection to shame and everlasting contempt.

AND the resurrection to everlasting life.

The "power of the holy people" is the power to witness.

Acts 1:8 "But you shall receive POWER when the Holy Spirit has come upon you/ and you shall be witnesses to Me in Jerusalem and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the end of the earth."

Only when the "holy people" are locked up or dead, (or hiding in mountain caves) and their books destroyed, will their witness be finished. Once that happens, Christ cannot win any more souls for His priesthood (Rev. 20:6). THAT's when it's OVER.....

I know it is terrible to think of the persecution that is coming soon, but we must be like the early believers. We must believe that "we can do all things through Christ" who strengthens us.

www.prophecyviewpoint.com

Shalom

[Planey]

An angel is seen by the scoffing multitude descending from heaven, clothed with brightness like the lightning. He closes that massive outer door, and then takes his course upward to heaven again.

[o2bwise]

Hi 8th,

Quote:

8th:

I asked three different Rabbis the tense of that word "cleansed" in Daniel 8:14. Each one said "perfect tense" meaning the cleansing is finished at the end of the time period - not just starting.

I looked up all occurrences of the Hebrew. In every other case the Hebrew is rendered as made righteous or justified.

Tony

[o2bwise]

Hi jackson,

Quote:

jackson:

In the heavenly sanctuary the son of God is the high priest, Do you really think he need wear symbolic clothing representing purity or wash thoroughly before coming into the presence of His Father. Does Jesus have to have the urim and thummim stones on His breast to advise Him of the Father's wishes.?

I think it is a fallacy to think that what Jesus doesn't "need" packs the power to necessarily dismiss what 8th shared.

Jesus may not "need" to wear certain clothing, BUT, why wouldn't He be seen to wear the clothing that Scripture informs us is representative of what He is doing?

He wouldn't because He needn't? Really?

I would think that whether or not He needs to, He would! Why would God author such confusion based on what He doesn't need?

I suggest that the primary meaning of Jesus being in the Most Holy as High Priest is His perfection of His remnant AND that this work is rapid.

Regarding the heavenly sanctuary...

Might you assign the same criteria to that sanctuary? In other words, why does Jesus "need" to go into some structure in heaven?

Notice the context:

Daniel 8:9-10, 14

9 And out of one of them came a little horn which grew exceedingly great toward the south, toward the east, and toward the Glorious Land. 10 And it grew up to the host of heaven; and it cast down some of the host and some of the stars to the ground, and trampled them.

14 And he said to me, "For two thousand three hundred days; then the sanctuary shall be cleansed."

The heavenly sanctuary that is cleansed, in context, is a locale that the little horn GROWS UP TO.

The little horn does not grow up to the geography God dwells in.

In context, heaven is the church and the sanctuary is the minds of the faithful in the church and at that time, the little horn desecrates the holy place apartment.

Blessings,

Tony

[Hair]

You carry type and antitype too far. You do the same thing with the antitypical day of atonement when you confine it to one day.

[8thdaypriest]

I believe in a pre-Advent judgment.

I just don't believe it began in 1844.

Daneil 7:1-8 Four beasts - the fourth being the "terrible" one.

Daniel 7:11 "I watched then because of the sound of the pompous words which the horn was speaking; I watched till the beast was slain, and its body destroyed and given to the burning flame. [ Terrible beast will be destroyed.]

12 "As for the rest of the beasts, [the lion, the bear, the leopard] they had their dominion taken away, yet their lives were prolonged for a season and a time. [so the three beasts will be alive AFTER the terrible beast is destroyed.]

13 "I was watching in the night visions, And behold, One like the Son of Man, Coming with the clouds of heaven! He came to the Ancient of Days, And they brought Him near before Him.

Here's the judgment!!

14 Then to Him was given dominion and glory and a kingdom, That all peoples, nations, and languages should serve Him. His dominion is an everlasting dominion, Which shall not pass away, And His kingdom the one Which shall not be destroyed. (Dan 7:11 NKJ)

The conclusion of the judgment is that DOMINION is taken from Satan (who claims it is rightfully his) and given to the Son of Man.

ANGEL comes to give interpretation:

Four beasts are four kingdoms. Looks like the first 3 will still be "alive" after the 4th "terrible" one is destroyed.

The "horn" on the 4th terrible beast will make war with the saints (and he will be winning for "a time, times, and a part v.25) -- UNTIL the judgment sits

THEN it will be time for the saints to possess the kingdom, because a judgment was made in their favor. (WE do NOT YET have possession. That takes place at the Second Coming. That puts this judgment right down in the last days. It ends with the Second Coming!!)

OK - but all Daniel saw in v.14 was that dominion was given to the Son of Man. How is it a judgment in favor of the saints?

BECAUSE: The Son of man promised that His saints would "reign with Him" over the Kingdom He regained.

Revelation 1:6, Revelation 5:9-10 The twenty four elders [presently in heaven] proclaim that Christ “has made us kings and priests (a kingdom of priests) to His God and Father.”

You Jesus “were slain”. . . “and have made us kings and priests to our God; and we shall reign on the earth.”

Revelation 2:26 “And he who overcomes . . . to him I will give power over the nations – He shall rule them with a rod of iron; as the potter’s vessels shall be broken to pieces.”

ANOTHER QUESTION: How will we rule over the nations if they are all dead???

Revelation 3:21 “To him who overcomes I will grant to sit with Me on My throne, as I also overcame and sat down with My Father on His throne.”

Sooooooo,

I don't think the judgment of Daniel 7 is about individual human beings. I think it about the dominion - WHO should have it?? Christ or Satan???

WHEN Christ is given the dominion - in that moment - all judgment is given to the Son of Man. He decides everything within HIS dominion. He decides who will share that dominion with Him.

HE does NOT YET have the dominion - and neither do we.

Shalom

www.prophecyviewpoint.com

[John317]

I think obviously God knew (he knows all) that we would prolong his coming. ..... I think there is a deadline, and God will come, and he knows when that day is. God determines the day, not man by man's behavior.

But two points, I think, are very important to understand:

1) Humans are free to accept or reject God, and His knowledge of who is going to be saved and who is going to be lost does not cause people to be saved or lost. He wants everyone saved, and everyone COULD be saved if they would. Of course God know many won't be saved, but again, God's knowing it doesn't make it happen.

2) Just like the ancient Hebrews could have obeyed God and gone immediately into the Promised Land, so, too, the Pioneers and those living in the 1890s could have gone home to be with Christ. I'm convinced that God gives every generation since the 1850s the opportunity to be the last. We could be the last. It all depends on us as individuals and as a church. Christ comes knocking on the hearts of individual believers. Do we really want Him to come, and are we preparing every day for that event?

[John317]

John317 said:

"I would love to hear anyone's understanding of, or response to, the Bible study. Is it clear to you? How could it be improved? What points would you like to see added to it? Or what parts are not as clear as you would like them to be?"

I think it is important to note that the first angel of Rev 14 was warning the world of the judgment, and not the Second coming of Christ. We are to be ready for the judgment, for that will decide our destiny. ..... At His Second Coming all will have already been decided. We are to long for His Coming but we are to prepare for the judgment soon to be upon us.

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