Kissing under a mistletoe

[Gail]

Where in the world did THAT tradition come from?

I think of a mistletoe as a parasitic plant that inhabits the oak trees of northern France and California.

Hubby was relating a story about when an invited female guest in their home decided to kiss his dad under the mistletoe.

Needless to say, the Christmas spirit in that home dampened just at that moment...

[Naomi]

Unless the trees are sprayed we have a lot of mistletoe. I suppose that depending on the type of kiss there could be social issues but most people that I know take it as a fun part of the holidays.

As with almost everything one could say it has pagan origins. Here is the history:

Mistletoe was used by Druid priests 200 years before the birth of Christ in their winter celebrations. They revered the plant since it had no roots yet remained green during the cold months of winter.

The ancient Celtics believed mistletoe to have magical healing powers and used it as an antidote for poison, infertility, and to ward of evil spirits. The plant was also seen as a symbol of peace, and it is said that among Romans, enemies who met under mistletoe would lay down their weapons and embrace.

Scandanavians associated the plant with Frigga, their goddess of love, and it may be from this that we derive the custom of kissing under the mistletoe. Those who kissed under the mistletoe had the promise of happiness and good luck in the following year.

So get the mistletoe, lay down your weapons, no worries about evil spirits, embrace and kiss someone and have happiness and good luck in the new year.

[Gordon1]

I wouldn't be surprised if mistletoe kissing originated with pagan Bachanalia superstition, akin to Valentine's Day.

But I'll let someone else do the fact-checking.

In the churches here, no mistletoe is needed. There's plenty of kissing year round - but spirits are not dampened.

[Gail]

You live in the French side of Canada, don't you?

There's not so much kissing being done here

[Gail]

Either that or I'm missing it!!

[Gordon1]

!!

Naomi scooped me..

[Gordon1]

Oui. Kissin' & Huggin' unseen 20 yrs. ago, now commonplace.

[Naomi]

!!

Naomi scooped me..

Oops!!

[Naomi]

Oui. Kissin' & Huggin' unseen 20 yrs. ago, now commonplace.

We hung the mistletoe before I started to school ... just a bit over 20 years

Where do u live the kissin & huggin sounds interesting LOL

[Gordon1]

..who needed mistletoe at school LOL

Where do u live the kissin & huggin sounds interesting LOL

Though I adopted it from a Tellaro family, it's habit for Québecers, now including the churches.

Interesting yes, unless one has a better half getting smooched & squeezed by the younger crowd.

(Church & family dynamics seem strained when it's up close & personal - LOL)

Would be simpler at a singles meet. Montréal is more Milano than it is Tuscon..

(Québec has twice the national average of common-law unions.) And other stats of Vatican influence.

[Naomi]

We don't use it in churches ... there may be a few half-hugs...question...who is Annie Oakley?

[M. T. Cross]

I was tempted to go on a really cliche pagan rant about traditions Christians stole from pagans, but then I decided not to cause A.) I don't really care and B.) It really is cliche and I don't like cliche and C.) It always leads to talking about witches being burned and that is the most overdone (pun half intended) and exaggerated topic in the world.

Interesting to note though - mistletoe was what killed Baldr, son of Odin and Frigga and led to Loki's last disgrace with the Aesir. So it has some dual meaning in Scandinavian culture

[Gordon1]

[Naomi]

Quote:

Interesting to note though - mistletoe was what killed Baldr, son of Odin and Frigga and led to Loki's last disgrace with the Aesir. So it has some dual meaning in Scandinavian culture

Perhps Baldr was not kissed under the mistletoe and lost his opportunity for all the protecion it has been said to provide: Therefore it killed him.The plot thickens...Humm this could be serious and perhaps should be investigated .. where is Sherlock Holmes

[Naomi]

That's no answer ... Annie Oakley could ride 'em, rope 'em, shoot 'em and show you how it was done ...

[Naomi]

I was tempted to go on a really cliche pagan rant about traditions Christians stole from pagans,

Thank you ... we get enough of that

[M. T. Cross]

Originally Posted By: EmptyCross

I was tempted to go on a really cliche pagan rant about traditions Christians stole from pagans,

Thank you ... we get enough of that

In all seriousness, most of these traditions come from Northern Europe. Its not so much that Christianity stole them, as it is that people carried their Yule traditions with them when they were converted (and no I will not get into that either). With that said, so many tribes of Northern Europe were somewhat nomadic that there is really no way to tell what is Nordic, what is Germanic, what is Celtic etc. Its actually one of my pet peeves amongst some Pagans when they go on and on about it. Really, if its that big a deal, celebrate Yule and get over your bad self.

As for me - I celebrate both.

[Naomi]

In all seriousness, most of these traditions come from Northern Europe. Its not so much that Christianity stole them, as it is that people carried their Yule traditions with them when they were converted (and no I will not get into that either). With that said, so many tribes of Northern Europe were somewhat nomadic that there is really no way to tell what is Nordic, what is Germanic, what is Celtic etc. Its actually one of my pet peeves amongst some Pagans when they go on and on about it. Really, if its that big a deal, celebrate Yule and get over your bad self.

As for me - I celebrate both.

Well said ... as a child we lit Hanukkah candles and celebrated Christmas. I didn't know that it would be frowned on. Later for whatever reason we only celebrated Christmas ... for 8 days (LOL) and then Christmas. We were more blessed than those who only had Christmas. LOL

Christmas is a beautiful time of the year ... what can be nicer than giving a gift to someone who you love and appreciate. Or, to bake cookies or little breads and take it to neighbors. This year our little town is giving out 60 complete food baskets and tons of toys to the children. To have a lovely Christmas it is not necessary to rob your savings, become involved in hussle and commercialization. Just enjoy a lovely Christmas filled with family and friends. My children still get at least one pair of socks and gloves from me ... I do add other things but that is what I had to give when they were young and they expect it. We have a coconut that goes to someone different each year ... long family story behind that but we have fun seeing who gets the coconut.

Other traditional holidays are also beautiful and create a warmth and solidify civilization. Their origin only matters if we make it important and miss the point of the reason for the season(s)

Oops sorry off my

[M. T. Cross]

I agree 100%

My first Gwyddon teacher posted something one year. I can't remember it verbatim but it was something to this extent.

All around the world at this time of year is a celebration of the coming of light. In their most basic meaning Yule, Christmas, etc. all share this basic theme. So rather than bicker and argue about who is right, who is wrong, and who stole what from whom - let us join our hearts and welcome the light together.

She was a real wise woman!

[Naomi]

Yes, she does sound very wise and I agree! :)

[Gordon1]

I celebrate neither.

Join hearts with those who openly deny Christ and His cross?

Let us contemplate what that means.

[M. T. Cross]

Well Gordo, our hearts will miss you.

[CoAspen]

Very, very nice!

[CoAspen]

Quote:

Join hearts with those who openly deny Christ and His cross?

Hmmmm, What would Christ do......JOIN HEARTS! He did spend His life doing just that!!

[Neil D]

Wow, 20 years old....That how old this article is...an one that is still pertinent to our continued debate on whether to celebrate Christmas or complain about the pagan origins of it...Frankly, I wonder where the pagans got the idea, as anything good only comes from God...and this time of year is good...anyways, I'll let Billy's little dissertation persuade you Oh Come Let Us Adore Him ...

It was 1992 when I wrote and first posted this essay as a "Christmas card" to my net families. I wrote it originally as a response to a debate that raged on SDAnet the first Christmas that I was a part of that group over whether we as Christians, and especially as Seventh-day Adventist Christians, should observe Christmas in celebration of the birth of Christ.

It was indeed encouraging to me when after posting this essay that year, I received a very heart-warming letter in which the writer expressed thanks for the new peace that had come to their home in regard to celebrating Christmas....and how they had, for the first time, been able to reconcile the observance of Christmas with the facts of its pagan associations and its not being the actual day of Christ's birth.

Each Christmas season since then I have sent it again to my net family, as well as making it available year round on this section of our At Issue pages, hoping that those who enter in to the joy of the season may find some new thoughts about the holiday you hold dear...and that those who may have had prohibitions or reservations about celebrating Christmas may be encouraged to look at the day in a more joyful way...and join with us, and with the angels, in singing...

Joy to the world,

The Lord is come....

Reflections on Christmas...

...and solstice and pagans and Jews and Gentiles and times and seasons and angels' songs and Christmas trees--and a baby born in a stable.

On winter Solstice... Could one born in the tropics comprehend the long, dark, winter arctic night? Or even we of temperate zones, in our warm, well lighted rooms--what can we know of the feelings of earlier tribes who watched the sunlit hours grow fewer and fainter each day, until there was solstice and the sun stopped its retreat and began to return. Those who knew the Lord--that it was He who made the sun, and ordered the seasons--these surely celebrated and gave Him thanks, and praised the Lord when they saw the sun returning. When they saw the season turning, surely they worshiped Him.

But not all knew the Lord. Some saw only the things that were made--the sun and the earth that provided their food. And they (some ignorantly, some willfully) turned from worshiping the Lord to worshiping instead those things the Lord had made. We call them pagans. At the turning of the season they called solstice, they celebrated, and gave thanks, and praised and worshiped those things that were but the signs of the turning of the year.

And then came Jesus. And Christians chose the solstice celebration and appropriated it as a celebration of His coming. And some Christians think this was a very bad thing to do--for Solstice had "pagan origins", and Christ was not born at Solstice.

But think with me a little farther. Perhaps it should not be so quickly condemned.

First of all, did Pagans really *originate* the celebrations of Solstice? I tend to agree with C. S. Lewis when he observes that Satan does not "originate" anything. He has no creative power. He only rebels, he perverts, he turns men from worshiping the creator to worshiping the creation. But it is the function of the gospel to turn men's hearts back to worshiping the true God. So why should we think of Solstice as being only a pagan holiday which was "Christianized"? (This term meaning, I suppose, only a thin veneer of respectability which covers a pagan--and therefore evil--heart.) Might we not better think of it as a holiday, a holy day--a day of celebration, praise, and worship which Christianity reclaimed--that is, removed its pagan heart--and redirected its praise and worship back to the true Creator God?

It is true, Christ was not born at winter solstice as men count the turning seasons of the year. Yet Christ was born at winter solstice--in the turning of the history of the world.

When "the light of truth seemed to have departed from among men, when faith had grown dim, and hope had well-nigh ceased to illuminate the future." when "the dark shadow that Satan had cast over the world grew deeper and deeper," when even the "priests who ministered in the temple had lost sight of the significance of the service they performed," when "the deception of sin had reached its height," when all the world, it seemed, lived in an arctic winter darkness...

"When the fullness of the time was come, God sent forth His Son". . . "Wonder, O heavens! And be astonished, O earth!" (quotes from Desire of Ages by Ellen White) Then it was that angels brought light and song and celebration to temple shepherds keeping watch...for Christ the Lord was born that day! It was "Christ-mas" day--the first glimmer of the "return of the Son", the beginning of God's "Christ-mass"--"Christ- sacrifice"--that was to culminate at Gethsemane and Calvary and burst forth on the resurrection morning in light more glorious than the noonday summer sun.

The gods of field and forest and star and sun and Roman Empire were shown to be no gods. And the day of praise which they had usurped was given back to God. The day of celebrations for the sun's return was made a day of celebration for the coming of the Sun of Righteousness, the babe in the manger.

Oh, yes, from our vantage point in history, we know that not all men gave their full allegiance to the King of Kings. We know that Christians allowed pagan thoughts to infiltrate the church, causing a period of great darkness even in the church. We know that Christians today are not single minded in their worship. We even know that paganism is arising again, that Christ is being outlawed from public schools and government property while neo-pagan and Gaia (earth) rituals are encouraged. Solstice is once more being celebrated by some. So let's be against pagan elements that have clung to (or grown upon) the holy day called Christmas. Let's be against the secular commercialization of Christmas. But please! Let's not let (or help) these same elements squeeze Christ out of our Christmas!

If the celebration of solstice had not existed, would Christians have started it? We just might have--we who lived in lands of ice and snow and long winter nights--we just might have. Darkness is depressing. We just might have cheered each other with tales of light and song and Bethlehem. I hope we would have. Maybe, in fact, we did. Our present day pagans (and their true leader) would like to take credit for much more than history actually records. Let us not glorify them. Paganism never quite lives up to its own self-portrait.

There's a song that keeps running through my head, "Christmas helps us to remember, to do what other folks hold dear." Not all the spending, or even the over-spending, that goes on at Christmas has to do with "greed" or gratification of "lusts". This is the time of year when we can lay aside our timidities and give to those we love. What if we sacrifice a bit of our selves. What if the merchant is enriched as well as our friend--it's Christmas. God gave Himself to us. It is that thought that helps us step outside ourselves and give a bit extra to each other.

At our house, we have a tree. It is a fir tree. (We can still get real trees where I live--though we can't go out and cut our own as we once did.) It will die. And as it dies it will release its perfume. More than it does in its living, it will bless us in its dying. I see symbolism here that looks beyond the manger to a life of blessing and a death of saving. We have lights on our tree--and an angel on the top--the one my oldest son picked out the Christmas he was five. We will remember--stars and angels and Bethlehem and Christmases past. Our tree trimmings all have history--some we made when our children were little, some were gifts from very dear friends, some are merely decorative. Our traditions bind us as a family--and not just our visible family. We celebrate the birthday of our Elder Brother.

For you who do not see beyond the commercialization or paganization of Christmas, I pray that your eyes may be opened. May you see, and feel, and know, along with those of us who celebrate, the peace and love and joy and hope that is kindled anew with each remembrance of His birth.

For you who sing the songs of Christmas...May your hearts open to his love and peace in a new and joyfully intense way on this Christmas.

God bless,

Bille Burdick

At Issue Editor