Perfect: What is it?

[Gibs]

Originally Posted By: Gibs

I have to agree with EGW on this and she says we are to be perfect as He, Christ is perfect.

Since He became lowered to our state and degragdation He is our example to attain.

You can read her statement here if you care to, - - {SD 154.3}

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

1Jo 4:5 They are of the world: therefore speak they of the world, and the world heareth them.

1Jo 4:6 We are of God: he that knoweth God heareth us; he that is not of God heareth not us. Hereby know we the spirit of truth, and the spirit of error.

Stop tring to pick an argument and just comment, please.

Do you agree with my assessment of the differing views expressed on this thread on perfection? Is it a fair assesment?

Heavens sake Joeb, picking an argument no, but only pointing out Christ is the example of the "perfect" we are to come to.

He was perfect in this our sphere as we are to be in this our sphere.

I didn't exactly see you state it the way I see it I would say.

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[joeb]

Heavens sake Joeb, picking an argument no, but only pointing out Christ is the example of the "perfect" we are to come to.

He was perfect in this our sphere as we are to be in this our sphere.

I didn't exactly see you state it the way I see it I would say.

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

Gibs,

Sorry. It's that I'd really like to avoid the clash between those who accept Ellen White on this thread and those who don't. I want input from those who don't like Ellen White too, and as long as someone is posting quotes from her they are unlikely to post here.

If you don't know the material well enough to post your thoughts without quotes, then you really don't know it. I figure you do, so just post your own thoughts in your own words or use a Bible text or two that show the same idea. It's not that hard to do.

[debbym]

Quote:

Here's what I think it looks like. I think it looks like the love of Jesus expressed in us. It will be expressed in us as the same level of loving kindness, patience, gentleness, forbearance, goodness, peace, being calm in the middle of the proverbial storm, etc... that Jesus had. A good Biblical presentation of this perfection is found in the following text

one of the places i read about "be ye there fore perfect", is in the sermon on the mount, where Jesus talks about human prejudice and bias, and how God is not a respecter of persons. and to be perfect we are not to favor the rich and disdain the poor but regard everyone equally.

and there are any number of prejudices we can be influenced by to show less then equal regard for all of God's children in the world.

! corinthinas 13 the Love chapter is a great place to look at what is love and what is not love, God is love, and we are to be perfect as God is perfect. i think we are to be perfect in loving according to our capacity.

[joeb]

Quote:

Here's what I think it looks like. I think it looks like the love of Jesus expressed in us. It will be expressed in us as the same level of loving kindness, patience, gentleness, forbearance, goodness, peace, being calm in the middle of the proverbial storm, etc... that Jesus had. A good Biblical presentation of this perfection is found in the following text

one of the places i read about "be ye there fore perfect", is in the sermon on the mount, where Jesus talks about human prejudice and bias, and how God is not a respecter of persons. and to be perfect we are not to favor the rich and disdain the poor but regard everyone equally.

and there are any number of prejudices we can be influenced by to show less then equal regard for all of God's children in the world.

! corinthinas 13 the Love chapter is a great place to look at what is love and what is not love, God is love, and we are to be perfect as God is perfect. i think we are to be perfect in loving according to our capacity.

debbym,

Could I get you to explain what your idea of "our capacity" means? It could mean one of several different things, including the natural capacity each of us are born with. I don't think that's what you mean, but I'd like to have you fill in the blanks if you would.

[Gail]

Jesus told us that we are to be like little children. Perhaps that is part of the picture of perfection that God has?

[LifeHiscost]

Quote:

i think we are to be perfect in loving according to our capacity.

This pretty much identifies our capacity as restricted to submission, and then as a result of freewill, only if we are willing.

"I am the vine, you are the branches; he who abides in Me and I in him, he bears much fruit, for apart from Me you can do nothing."John 15:5 NASB

God cares!

[joeb]

Jesus told us that we are to be like little children. Perhaps that is part of the picture of perfection that God has?

I can buy that. Only child-like devotion and surrender to Christ can produce perfection in anyone?

[Gerr]

Originally Posted By: Gail

Jesus told us that we are to be like little children. Perhaps that is part of the picture of perfection that God has?

I can buy that. Only child-like devotion and surrender to Christ can produce perfection in anyone?

Does a perfectly devoted child ever make mistakes?

[o2bwise]

Perfection is the character of Jesus.

What one thinks, says, and does cannot but be a consequence of who one is.

[debbym]

the seed is perfect, and the little root, then the blade, the leaf and then the fruit, it is perfect at each step. though it has a continual increase.

so when we have received the seed of the word we have a capacity though it is not very increased, we can love to that extent perfectly. then as we grow in giving and receiving love our capacity increases, with our faith, our increase of love and trust on and on.... we are perfect at each step of the way to full maturity.

God gives us his perfection. then we respond and make choices. it is all God's working and then we grow in capacity to work together with God under his care and nurturing. we can never do anything independent of God now, nor will we in eternity.

people may think they are independent of God, but if that were so they would not exist. God gives existence to all creation, and to good and evil angels alike.

[joeb]

the seed is perfect, and the little root, then the blade, the leaf and then the fruit, it is perfect at each step. though it has a continual increase.

so when we have received the seed of the word we have a capacity though it is not very increased, we can love to that extent perfectly. then as we grow in giving and receiving love our capacity increases, with our faith, our increase of love and trust on and on.... we are perfect at each step of the way to full maturity.

God gives us his perfection. then we respond and make choices. it is all God's working and then we grow in capacity to work together with God under his care and nurturing. we can never do anything independent of God now, nor will we in eternity.

people may think they are independent of God, but if that were so they would not exist. God gives existence to all creation, and to good and evil angels alike.

I like this, debbym. Well said.

[Gail]

How much worry should we put into our perfection? When we worry at all, is that not injecting self into the picture? Does doing that show a lack of trust in Jesus?

[joeb]

Does a perfectly devoted child ever make mistakes?

I'm not going to argue this type of thing on this thread. It's devoted exclusively to what each of us thinks perfection is. Not if it's achievable or anything else.

[joeb]

How much worry should we put into our perfection? When we worry at all, is that not injecting self into the picture? Does doing that show a lack of trust in Jesus?

I think this is a very good idea for another thread. I actually have quite abit to say along these lines, but I'd really like this thread to stay about what we think perfection is, or might be, or have been told it is.

I'd love to get more people to join in on this. I'd like to see the entire range of thought on it.

[Tallmark]

Perfect is the best everyone can do throughout all time. Excellence is the best I, the individual, can do up to the present time.

[Gerr]

Originally Posted By: Gerry Cabalo

Does a perfectly devoted child ever make mistakes?

I'm not going to argue this type of thing on this thread. It's devoted exclusively to what each of us thinks perfection is. Not if it's achievable or anything else.

I am not talking about what is achievable or not. What I am trying to get you to see is that there is such a thing as absolute perfection in which there is nothing that could be improved on, and relative perfection in which one can be wholeheartedly for God and yet find that there are still a multitude of things to improve on in one's life.

[joeb]

I am not talking about what is achievable or not. What I am trying to get you to see is that there is such a thing as absolute perfection in which there is nothing that could be improved on, and relative perfection in which one can be wholeheartedly for God and yet find that there are still a multitude of things to improve on in one's life.

Gerry,

Like I said, I'm not going to discuss this on this thread. Your post is nothing more than if perfection, whatever that means for everyone, is achievable. Start another thread.

[Gibs]

1Jo 3:3 And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure.

That is perfect as Christ is perfect.

1Jo 4:18 There is no fear in love; but perfect love casteth out fear: because fear hath torment. He that feareth is not made perfect in love.

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

1Jo 4:5 They are of the world: therefore speak they of the world, and the world heareth them.

1Jo 4:6 We are of God: he that knoweth God heareth us; he that is not of God heareth not us. Hereby know we the spirit of truth, and the spirit of error.

[Gerr]

Originally Posted By: Gerry Cabalo

I am not talking about what is achievable or not. What I am trying to get you to see is that there is such a thing as absolute perfection in which there is nothing that could be improved on, and relative perfection in which one can be wholeheartedly for God and yet find that there are still a multitude of things to improve on in one's life.

Gerry,

Like I said, I'm not going to discuss this on this thread. Your post is nothing more than if perfection, whatever that means for everyone, is achievable. Start another thread.

Quote:

What I'd like is to hear from everyone is what they think being perfect looks like.

If you don't like what I think perfection looks like, that's ok with me. It's your ball.

[debbym]

Quote:

We too can walk exactly as He did as it is made clear He took no power but what is ours at true repentance and then being a new man born again, of His Spirit.

His Spirit in you gives you ALL His power and ALL His advantages.

We are to be perfect as He was and He did this as a man with our sinful fallen nature, so He is the perfect expected of us too.

Jesus had more then what we have at repentance and the new birth. We are given the Holy Spirit in measure to work with us. We are given perfect standing before the Father as we grow into all the fullness of His Character.

He had complete submission of his will, to his Father's will. He prayed, "thy will be done on earth as it is in heaven, not my will but they will be done". He had and maintained complete submission at every step."

"It is God that works in us both to will and to do of his good will."

Every moment through each day God is calling us to him to a greater submission to his reveal will.

He is growing His character in us, and it grows just as we grow in our submission to His will.

When we first met Christ we begin to grow in our submission, our repentance deepens every day, our surrender grows every day. Our sanctification is ongoing.

We grow up into maturity in Christ.

The quote goes something like this,

"We too can have all the power Christ had if we will be in submission to His fathers will as he was."

[joeb]

Quote:

We too can walk exactly as He did as it is made clear He took no power but what is ours at true repentance and then being a new man born again, of His Spirit.

His Spirit in you gives you ALL His power and ALL His advantages.

We are to be perfect as He was and He did this as a man with our sinful fallen nature, so He is the perfect expected of us too.

Jesus had more then what we have at repentance and the new birth. We are given the Holy Spirit in measure to work with us. We are given perfect standing before the Father as we grow into all the fullness of His Character.

He had complete submission of his will, to his Father's will. He prayed, "thy will be done on earth as it is in heaven, not my will but they will be done". He had and maintained complete submission at every step."

"It is God that works in us both to will and to do of his good will."

Every moment through each day God is calling us to him to a greater submission to his reveal will.

He is growing His character in us, and it grows just as we grow in our submission to His will.

When we first met Christ we begin to grow in our submission, our repentance deepens every day, our surrender grows every day. Our sanctification is ongoing.

We grow up into maturity in Christ.

The quote goes something like this,

"We too can have all the power Christ had if we will be in submission to His fathers will as he was."

I like what you said. I just want to comment on what I bolded in your comments.

We must surrender fully to God to be justified. And, we must maintain that full surrender to God at all stages of our growth. As we grow God just reveals more and more of who we really are, and as He does we must fully surrender those things too.

A half-hearted surrender at any time during our Christian experiences puts us in jeopardy for Jesus said if you don't surrender everything you're not worthy of me, and a half-hearted surrender is really no surrender at all. We cannot serve two masters, and a half-hearted surrender is what we give when we're trying to do exactly that.

[phkrause]

Quote:

"If you are keeping all the commandments but don't have love, 1 Cor 13. If you don't have the fruit of the Spirit, yet keep the commandments, is that perfection?"

That would be a big nyet, Nada, Nein, Sister Gail!!!

and no,

`G

You can add bupkis to the list.

[Gibs]

Mt 5:48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.

The meaning of perfect in the Greek,

teleios tel'-i-os

from 5056; complete (in various applications of labor, growth, mental and moral character, etc.); neuter (as noun, with 3588) completeness:--of full age, man, perfect.

See Greek 5056

See Greek 3588

Christ Himself stated the above verse and I am sure He is not requesting something impossible for those who will be His.

There is the perfect we are to be spelled out in the Greek above!

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

1Jo 4:5 They are of the world: therefore speak they of the world, and the world heareth them.

1Jo 4:6 We are of God: he that knoweth God heareth us; he that is not of God heareth not us. Hereby know we the spirit of truth, and the spirit of error.