Gen 26:5?

[Hair]

Gen 26: 5 Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes and my laws.

We say that "my commandments" means God's 10 commandments and this supports that the 10 commandments existed before the exodus. OK, that's fine.

Here's my question: What does "statutes" and "laws" mean? Some practicing feast keepers have tried to use this verse on me as proof that the Feast Days existed before the exodus. I am not a feast keeper, but I do have a difficult time with this verse. Help me.

[phkrause]

Well this is how the CJB translates this verse: 5 All this is because Avraham heeded what I said and did what I told him to do -he followed my mitzvot, my regulations and my teachings.

[Ron Amnsn]

Gen 26: 5 Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes and my laws.

We say that "my commandments" means God's 10 commandments and this supports that the 10 commandments existed before the exodus. OK, that's fine.

Here's my question: What does "statutes" and "laws" mean? Some practicing feast keepers have tried to use this verse on me as proof that the Feast Days existed before the exodus. I am not a feast keeper, but I do have a difficult time with this verse. Help me.

The verse says there were five things that Abraham obeyed: my voice (qol), my obligations (mishmehret), my commands (mitsvah), my statutes (chuqqa), and my instructions (torah).

One of the best ways to discover the real meaning of these words is to use a Strongs concordance or Bible study software (like e-sword) to look up all the places those words are used in Scripture. (You can search by the Strongs numbers.) That will let you understand what those words mean in the context of what God had Moses write in His Word.

One of the things you should find is that none of the words in Genesis 26:5 refers to the "Ten Commandments". In Scripture what you call the "Ten Commandments" are actually called the "Ten Words" (debarim), not commandments. The number of commandments that God gave us in the Books of Moses is much greater than just ten.

Many of God's instructions were known to the Patriarchs before God had Moses put them in written form.

[Hair]

So, so far it's sounding to me like the feast keeping people are correct.

pkrause suggested that it is the mitzvot, which is basically the laws given in Leviticus etc.

Ron suggests that it is the mitsvah and torah but definitely NOT the 10 commandments which puts the ceremonial laws even predating Gods "Ten Words".

So do I need to start keeping the feast days? Why has no one ever told me this before?

[Green Cochoa]

So, so far it's sounding to me like the feast keeping people are correct.

pkrause suggested that it is the mitzvot, which is basically the laws given in Leviticus etc.

Ron suggests that it is the mitsvah and torah but definitely NOT the 10 commandments which puts the ceremonial laws even predating Gods "Ten Words".

So do I need to start keeping the feast days? Why has no one ever told me this before?

[Ron Amnsn]

Ron suggests that it is the mitsvah and torah but definitely NOT the 10 commandments which puts the ceremonial laws even predating Gods "Ten Words".

I didn't intend to suggest that Abraham did not keep the ten "commandments". I'm just pointing out that Genesis 26:5 doesn't refer to the Ten Words specifically.

The Hebrew words I gave are the root words of the Hebrew words that are actually used in the verse. I gave the root form of the word to avoid confusion when comparing with Strongs.

Each of the ten "commandments" would fall into at least one of the larger categories mentioned in Genesis 26:5.

[Hair]

Ron and Green, thank you for your help.

Green - I understand the purpose and fulfillment of the ceremonial law and how Jesus fulfilled them etc. I got all that.

However, the feast keepers claim that the 7 yearly feast are eternal, just as God's commandments are, that they did not come about as a result of sin, but that they always were, therefore, with the exception of the sacrifice part, we are required to keep them.

They jump back to Genesis 1:14 where it says "seasons" and say that that was for the seasons (feasts) therefore these feasts were established at creation just like God's Sabbath. Then they use Gen 26:5 for additional support. They have many verses that they point to trying to prove their belief.

Now, I don't buy in to all of that, and without going into detail here, those other verses do not "hold water".

But with this one verse Gen 26:5, I stumble on it. I haunts me and so I was wondering if someone could present a good logical explanation for it.

SDA commentary says:

commandments = precepts given by God

statutes = ceremonial and/or moral laws (sacrificial laws as Green said)

My Laws = ethical instruction from God

In addition to what you guys have offered, I guess that's my answer. This verse is referring to commandments, sacrificial instructions, and all direction given to Abraham by God which Abraham followed. There is no real validity to the claim that he is referring to the Yearly Feasts given in Lev 23.

Its just that when it says commandments, statutes, and laws at a casual glance it sure sounds like its talking about the Feast Days, because after they show you that verse , then they will carry you other places and show you where statutes are referring to the Feast Days, and then they'll say, "See, statutes mean feast days."

They've got a whole program and "dog and pony" show and have the Strong's concordance marked up like its the Bible. If you have never been attacked by one of these people, you're in for a ride. Because as SDA's we are used to defending the Ten Commandments and we are geared in that direction. We usually talk to people who don't want to keep anything from the Old testament, this stuff comes at you from the reverse direction and it will catch you off guard.

Any further input that you guys or anyone else may have is welcomed and thanks for your help so far.

[8thdaypriest]

When the priesthood was "changed" the believers in Jesus had to start keeping the feasts in a different way. They did not sacrifice animals any longer.

I know someone is going to point out that Paul paid money for men who had "taken a vow" to go to the Temple and offer animal sacrifices. All I can say is, LOOK WHAT HAPPENED! Paul was taken into custody and was never free again. This is my opinion - but I think Paul crossed the line - struck the rock - and the LORD allowed Him to suffer the consequences. BECAUSE the system of animal sacrifice is changed, along with the priesthood. We have a new REMEDY now. Christ is our Sacrifice AND our Priest.

During their wilderness wandering, the children of Israel did NOT KEEP the Feasts. They did not circumcise their boys either. I see us today as still in the wilderness. The command to keep the Feasts was "when you are come into the land." Well-we are NOT YET in the land. But there are dozens of places where we are promised that we will be "returned."

Isa. 66:22-23 says that in the "new earth" we will keep the Sabbath (given as one as the appointed times or Feasts), and the New Moons - so we will still have months and weeks.

In Zechariah 14:16, everyone who is left of all the nations" "go up from year to year to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, and to keep the Feast of Tabernacles." Interesting that the Gentiles are invited also, which happened ONLY at the Feast of Tabernacles - no other Feast. Kinda tells me that there will be Gentile nations living around Israel AFTER she is "returned to the land."

ANYWAY - I do NOT say that I "keep" the Feasts. I only say that I commemorate them. They were living prophecy. I think we have profoundly neglected this teaching. These are God's appointed holidays. NOT Christmas (pagan in origin), NOT Easter (pagan in origin).

In Galatians 4:10 Paul said "You observe days and months and seasons and years. He is absolutely speaking of the appointed Feasts of Israel. He is writing to the Galatians because they are being taken in by the circumcision party - who were legalistic Pharisees from Jerusalem.

So does this mean we throw out the Feasts altogether?

The key word is "observe."

If you trace that word back thru the Septuagint, you find that it means to do something very legalistically.

I don't think Paul was saying, "Throw them out." He was saying celebrate them in a new way.

We don't "go up to Jerusalem" - something required for the Feasts. We don't sacrifice a Lamb - something required.

We now have Christ as our Lamb, and our Jerusalem is - right now - above.

I am just NOT into camping during Sakkot (Tabernacles) in East Texas in September. YUK!! This isn't desert. This is bug city. I set up a miniature Sukka - (a temporary shelter to symbolize the wilderness tents) on my dining table, and we eat there at least once a day during Sukkot, and we talk about what it meant. The Feast of the 8th Day is the high point of the year. It was the final Feast of the year. It was a separate Feast on the 22nd day of the 7th month. Anyway - we have a big Thanksgiving Feast to celebrate that day. Andd NO - I don't get into arguments about which day is the right day. I just use the Jewish calendar.

Paul said, "So let no one judge you in food or in drink, or regarding a festival or a new moon or sabbaths, which are a shadow of things to come, but the substance is of Christ" (Col 2:16-17).

He could have been saying, "let no one judge you" in whether or not you keep these things,

OR in the WAY in which you keep them.

Incidentally, "food and drink" referred to the meat offering and the drink offering - which WERE symbols of what was to come, and are fulfilled in Messiah.

The "sabbaths" were ALL type or prophecy of what is to come - including the 7th day. That doesn't mean that we won't be keeping them in the KINGDOM.

I know that some point to Colossians 2:13-14, to say that the "handwriting of ordinances" was the ceremonial law. That just doesn't fit the Hebrew/Greek here. "The handwriting of ordinances" could better be translated as "the certificate if indebtedness" or "the charges" against us. Those WERE "nailed to the cross." We are free of our debt to the broken LAW, which was death.

Shalom

[8thdaypriest]

The LORD's "appointed times" have existed from creation.

The LORD set apart the 7th day, and declared it holy (for the LORD).

The 7th Day Sabbath IS ONE OF the Lord's "appointed times" (See Lev. 23:1-3).

I personally think that these are the days when HE comes closer to this planet.

Genesis 15 - the LORD makes a covenant with Abram. He passes between the pieces. He tells Abram that their descendants will be "strangers in a land that is not theirs," and "they will afflict them 400 years." Exodus 12:41 makes a point that "all the armies of the LORD went out from Egypt" "on the very same day" after exactly 430 years. Sooooo - that means that the LORD made that covenant with Abram ON Passover. Because Israel left Egypt on the day AFTER the Passover, the Feast of Unleavened Bread.

In case some are new to this, Passover was the 14th, and the Feast of Unleavened Bread began on the 15th which started at sundown of Passover.

The extra 30 years were between the time when the family of Jacob entered Egypt and the time when they began to be afflicted.

Shalom

[Hair]

The LORD's "appointed times" have existed from creation.

The LORD set apart the 7th day, and declared it holy (for the LORD).

The 7th Day Sabbath IS ONE OF the Lord's "appointed times" (See Lev. 23:1-3).

I personally think that these are the days when HE comes closer to this planet.

I assume that you are a Feast Keeper? I know you don't go to Texas or actually camp out etc., but you remember and "keep" to a certain extent, these feasts. A lot of the things you are saying are very similar to what they say.

It's sneakidly how you people present it. For example, you say the "appointed times" have existed from creation and then speak of God's Sabbath and make it sound more presentable to an SDA. Don't do that. Put it out there straight.

You need to say that you believe that the appointed times are the Feats Days including God's Sabbath and the Feast Days have existed since creation too. Say what you mean.

It is a sin, if a man does not keep God's Sabbath day.

Say that you believe that it is a SIN if a man does not keep, mark, or remember the Feast Days?

Say what ya'll mean, don't beat around the bush.

I don't have anything against the Jewish feast days, they are very significant, praise God for them, much insight can be gained from studying them, but I do not see anything scriptural that tells me that I am REQUIRED to do anything other than understand their significance now that Jesus has came.

On a more positive note: That bit about Paul making an oath and how he was arrested shortly after. You are the only person that I have ever heard that agrees with me and sees that the same way I do.

Love you brother

[Ron Amnsn]

When the priesthood was "changed" the believers in Jesus had to start keeping the feasts in a different way. They did not sacrifice animals any longer.

[Aliensanctuary]

Perhaps whether or not we keep the feasts of ancient Israel today is not so important, however, we can all expect to participate in the real feasts in the next life. How we do this will be explained to us at that time. We will likely be surprised by the reality of a number of things we believed or performed symbolically in this life.

[Naomi]

[Hair]

Guys, please be patient with me here. I want to do what God wants me to. Within the last year I've been looking at this matter. I have been relentlessly badgered by a group of practicing feast keepers who showed up at the door of our church and its been constant heartburn back and forth arguing this matter week after week day after day. I'm sick of it! I'm not into all this confusion, I just want to worship God in piece and reach people who don't even know truly who Jesus is... so here's my problem:

I can not get a truly concrete answer from anyone, it doesn't matter if its the pastor or who. It seems that no one in the SDA church really knows what to do about the Feast days. Even here, here's what I see that I've gotten:

Alien Sanctuary - How we may keep them today is not really important, but we can all expect to keep them in Heaven.

Well, if we're going to keep them in Heaven doesn't that mean that they ARE eternal and shouldn't we be keeping them now? It sounds to me like Alien Sanctuary is not completely sure.

Ron Amnsn - says The second priesthood operates concurrently with the one in Heaven and the one in the earthly sanctuary.

That sounds to me like we have a commitment to keep the feasts still today here on earth concurrently with the one in Heaven.

Ron - liked your comments on Paul by the way.

8THday - keeps them however he feels like doing it, but makes sure he does do it.

Yet when I joined the church, and through my years of membership, no one has ever said a word about me having to practice feast keeping, but now when I ask about it, it seems like a big DARK SECRET that they have all hidden from me and secretly they all believe that we should still keep the feasts, but no one really knows how exactly it should be done.

Also, when you ask about this topic, it seems that those FOR feast keeping are always eager to jump in there and start explaining, while those who don't practice feast keeping hide in the corner and watch me fight through it alone.

Ron Du Preez is the only person/author that I have ever read/talked to that takes an absolute stand on the issue.

No matter who you ask in the church it seems that you hit this GRAY AREA where: "nobody really is certain and they may sound like you might should maybe someday we don't know somehow I do it a little should we" answer. WHAT IS THAT??!!

WHO KNOWS??!! Where is the boss? Where's your manager, let me talk to him?

This is the most frustrating thing.

Ron Du Preez said one of the best most logical things that I have heard. I'm paraphrasing; he said that no one really knows the exact proper way to do any of this feast keeping today because the system has been so broken-up and half removed (temple, circumcision, Jesus, etc) that it isn't possible to do it as instructed in the Bible...and if God really expected us to keep these feasts, wouldn't he have given instruction on exactly how to do it after the cross?

and as Ron Amnsn said - they did not keep the feasts in the wilderness - they were supposed to start at the promised land - so how could they be eternal, and in looking at that, I can see Alien Sanctuary's thoughts that we will keep them in Heaven (the REAL promised land).

I don't know... what a mess.

[Ron Amnsn]

During their wilderness wandering, the children of Israel did NOT KEEP the Feasts. They did not circumcise their boys either. I see us today as still in the wilderness. The command to keep the Feasts was "when you are come into the land." Well-we are NOT YET in the land. But there are dozens of places where we are promised that we will be "returned."

It's true that many of the feasts are connected to living in the land that God promised to the descendants of Abraham. But it was not God's original plan that the Israelites would wander for 40 years in the wilderness before entering the Land. Also, it was not God's ideal plan that the Israelites would be in exile today, some of them still in exile since the days of Nebuchadnezzar. (Perhaps that's why the angel in Revelation specifically calls God's people out of Babylon.)

How can you say with certainty that the Israelites did not keep God's feasts in the wilderness? Scripture does not say so explicitly. In fact, Numbers 9:5 tells us that they kept Passover the second year after they left Egypt, and the following verse tells us that there were some men who were feeling left out because they couldn't present the Passover offering. Is there some indication that those same men would willingly skip Passover during the the next year, and the next? No.

We do know that during the 40 years of wandering a good portion of the Israelites lived in temporary shelters during Tabernacles (and throughout the year). There's no reason why they could not have easily blown trumpets and/or shouted on the first day of the seventh month. They had everything they needed with them to observe the Day of Atonement. They may have had wild barley available to practice doing the Wave Sheaf. They could have eaten unleavened bread during Unleavened Bread, just as they did when they left Egypt. They could have counted 50 days from the Wave Sheaf day to Pentecost. They could have refrained from work on the special Sabbaths of God's appointed times, just as they rested on the weekly Sabbaths.

Even after the Israelites entered the Land of promise, not everyone was required to go to the tabernacle/Temple to celebrate the Feasts. The men were required to go up three times per year. Do we imagine that the women and children ignored the Feasts just because they didn't go up to the Temple where the special sacrifices and events were happening? If they were interested in obeying God, they would have done the parts of God's feasts that were possible to do at a distance.

It's true, we know that some Israelites were not circumcised during the 40 years of wandering, but we don't know how many. Those who were not circumcised would not have been able to participate in the Passover lamb. But those who were circumcised could have participated.

It's true that the greater portion of God's people are not in the Land today. That makes it impossible to keep the Feasts exactly as prescribed in Scripture. But the bigger problem is that most people have NO desire to ever be in the Land promised to Abraham and his descendants -- they are quite content to stay in exile. They aren't the least bit interested in God's appointed times -- indeed they don't even know when those appointed times are happening. The prophecies say that God's people will begin to carefully obey God's instructions before they return to the Land. What I see in the church today is what Hair describes -- the majority of people are ignorant of what the Scriptures say about God's appointed times and they want to stay that way.

[8thdaypriest]

Hair,

I can hear your struggle. I'm sure you have been praying and asking the LORD to impress you regarding this.

I would NEVER say that anyone will be lost because they do not agree with my view. The most I will ever say regarding any of my studies, is that from my study of the Scriptures, at this point in time, this is what I believe.

My best answer would be, NO - I do NOT "keep" the Feasts.

We CANNOT "keep" them as commanded.

I remember them at the times they were celebrated, because I think it good to remember what they taught. My husband does take off work on the days designated as Sabbaths, and we do something commemorative.

I think there is a REASON why the LORD allowed His Temple to sit desolate for almost 2000 years. He did not WANT His people centered at Jerusalem - not YET.

Israel did NOT circumcise their infant males during the wilderness wandering. Therefore those males could NOT participate in the Passover. They did NOT keep the Feasts BECAUSE they were NOT YET in the land. They also could not keep the Feasts during the Babylonian captivity.

I see us now as "in the wilderness" NOT "in the land." That will be future when Israel is returned to this earth after the 7th millennium.

Once we come "into the land" THEN we WILL keep the Feasts.

The Rabbis in Babylon and after Rome destroyed the Temple, came up with symbolic ceremonies and formulas, and even special clothing to preserve their faith during long years away from the Temple and the system of sacrifices. I do NOT feel bound by those Rabbinic traditions.

I do NOT believe we should sacrifice animals, even if/when the Temple IS rebuilt.

Hebrews 7:18 "For on the one hand there is an annulling of the former commandment because of its weakness and unprofitableness, for the law made nothing perfect. On the other hand, there is the bringing in of a better hope, through which we draw near to God."

Hebrews 7:27 Our High Priest -- "who does not need daily, as those high priests to offer up sacrifices, first for his own sins and then for the people's for this he did once for all when He offered up Himself."

Obviously I do NOT believe that the system of Levite priests on earth runs concurrent with the priesthood of Christ in Heaven. I only have, and I will forever have ONLY ONE HIGH PRIEST.

That's the best answer I can give you.

We must all decide for ourselves, based upon our study of Scripture with the help of the Spirit of Christ.

Shalom

Rachel

[Green Cochoa]

Rachel,

Do you also keep the Passover? If so, why? If not, why not? I would be interested in your view either way.

Along with that, how do you fit statements like the following into your view?

This was the last time that Christ was to keep the feast with His disciples. It was really the last Passover that was ever to be kept. For the lamb was slain to teach the people about Christ's death; and when Christ, the Lamb of God, should be slain for the sins of the world, there would be no need of slaying a lamb to represent His death. {SJ 95.2}

Did Christ's death end the keeping of the Passover?

Blessings,

Green Cochoa.

[Hair]

8Th day - I just now realized you were female sorry for referring to you as "he"... I'm slow.

Ron - saw that I misquoted you - it was 8thday that said no feast in wilderness - sorry

Green - thank you for your input - not scripture, but still very good - it seems pretty clear what EGW thought - in that comment anyway - I'm sure someone else will find a writing where she said to keep the Passover or similar, never fails.

But thanks - What I'm getting here is a miniature example of what I usually get - people like 8Thday and Ron are happy to discuss and my normal brother and sister mainstream SDA's hide in the corner and abandon me. So I thank you very much for your help in offering some insight of some possible opposition from a church prophet/pioneer to feast keeping. I'm interested in BOTH sides.

[Green Cochoa]

Hair,

Consider that the Gospels were written mostly of Christ's pre-sacrifice life, and we have no specific commands regarding keeping the feast from Jesus afterward. We have Paul's epistles, writings of Peter, James and John afterward, and that's all of the major writings we have in the New Testament. Paul mentions the feasts in terms of their symbolism. John makes no mention of them, so far as I'm aware. James does not mention them at all. Peter, who was the most scholarly of the New Testament writers in the sense of writing like a collegiate student, quoting from many other authorities to support his train of thought, also makes no mention of the feasts. (The one mention of "feast" that he makes lumps those who do so among the ungodly in latter days.)

Ellen White, however, does make mention of them. She wrote prolifically, and touched on so many topics of relevance to us today. In the following statement, she references once again the Cross as being that to which the feasts had all pointed, and she further speaks of having "convocations" in our day in their place.

Anciently God commanded his people to assemble three times a year, and from every city from Dan to Beersheba the people came to these annual feasts. The one at the commencement of the season was to entreat God's blessing upon their families, their lands, their flocks, and their herds. The one at the close of harvest was the crowning festal gathering, to bring their offerings to God. The land had yielded its increase, the harvest had been gathered into their granaries, the first-fruits had been stored, and the people came with their tributes of thanksgiving to God, who had thus richly blessed them. Joy and rejoicing were there combined with the solemnities of a holy and sacred convocation. {RH, July 10, 1879 par. 11}

God directed Moses to say to the children of Israel, "Thou shalt observe the feast of tabernacles seven days, after that thou hast gathered in thy corn and thy wine." "Seven days shalt thou keep a solemn feast unto the Lord thy God, in the place which the Lord shall choose; because the Lord thy God shall bless thee in all thine increase, and in all the works of thine hands, therefore thou shalt surely rejoice." {RH, July 10, 1879 par. 12}

Many sacrifices were made at these feasts; and this profusion of blood shed in connection with the harvest of thanksgiving was significant to them of the fact that even the bounties of the earth could come to them only through the cross of Calvary. By thus assembling and bringing their tithes into the treasury, they ever acknowledged the Lord to be the giver of all their blessings. The children of Israel are our ensamples, that while we should imitate their faithfulness and virtues, we should shun those sins which brought the displeasure of God upon them. {RH, July 10, 1879 par. 13}

We have our convocation meetings yearly, and all who possibly can attend them should feel under obligation to do so. If they neglect to improve the opportunities to obtain a better knowledge of the truth, and to become more thoroughly in earnest in their efforts to perfect Christian character, they will be held responsible for the light, and privileges, and blessings which they might have had. Their case is nearly as bad in the sight of God as that of those who attend the meetings but fail to improve by the light and blessings there received. {RH, July 10, 1879 par. 14}

[joeb]

I just have a question.

As Green Cochoa pointed out, the feasts pointed forward to Christ. They were a shadow of the reality to come in Christ. So here's the question: Why focus on a shadow when the reality of the shadow has appeared?

To me the question I asked points out the futility of looking backwards for that's what keeping the feasts now is: looking backwards. Yes, studying the feasts may increase our appreciation of the plan of salvation, but to continue to "keep" that which is only a shadow of the reality of Christ doesn't make sense to me. In a way it's as big of an insult to Christ as offering a sacrifice of a lamb would be now.

That's just my opinion on the matter.

[Hair]

Joeb, I agree with you. that's how I've always seen that, and still do.

However, the feast keepers will say, "No, the feasts were not only something for them to look forward to, but are also now a memorial of the great work that Christ has done for us, and so we celebrate it forever as a memorial. You heathens have replaced God's holidays with Christmas, Easter, etc. but refuse to celebrate God's holidays and you are going to burn in Hell for it!" They'll also point to many places in the OT where it says that the feasts are to be eternal or forever.

Most of the time that's how they start the process with someone. They will initially start by explaining or discussing how Christmas is pagan, and then go into explaining how the Devil has replaced God's days with pagan days. That's how they do the members of my church anyway. Then they carry on from there with volumes of stuff and they carry the Strongs concordance around like it's a Bible. I think some of them have it memorized.

I don't buy into this myself yet, I'm still studying, but incase you haven't been attacked by one of them, that's something like what they would say to you regarding your question.

[joeb]

Joeb, I agree with you. that's how I've always seen that, and still do.

However, the feast keepers will say, "No, the feasts were not only something for them to look forward to, but are also now a memorial of the great work that Christ has done for us, and so we celebrate it forever as a memorial. You heathens have replaced God's holidays with Christmas, Easter, etc. but refuse to celebrate God's holidays and you are going to burn in Hell for it!" They'll also point to many places in the OT where it says that the feasts are to be eternal or forever.

Most of the time that's how they start the process with someone. They will initially start by explaining or discussing how Christmas is pagan, and then go into explaining how the Devil has replaced God's days with pagan days. That's how they do the members of my church anyway. Then they carry on from there with volumes of stuff and they carry the Strongs concordance around like it's a Bible. I think some of them have it memorized.

I don't buy into this myself yet, I'm still studying, but incase you haven't been attacked by one of them, that's something like what they would say to you regarding your question.

Anybody can disagree with me at any time. Just because they do doesn't mean I have to get into an argument with them, especially if they are accosting me over the subject repeatedly. After a certain point I just tell them goodby, that I've made up my mind, and I go on about my business.

If they want to trail around after me trying to present arguments to my back that I neither listen to nor acknowledge, they're welcome to do it. However, I would assume that it would get pretty discouraging in a hurry.

I'd do the same with them as I would a Jehovah's Witness that became really obnoxious: ignore them.

[phkrause]

I just have a question.

As Green Cochoa pointed out, the feasts pointed forward to Christ. They were a shadow of the reality to come in Christ. So here's the question: Why focus on a shadow when the reality of the shadow has appeared?

To me the question I asked points out the futility of looking backwards for that's what keeping the feasts now is: looking backwards. Yes, studying the feasts may increase our appreciation of the plan of salvation, but to continue to "keep" that which is only a shadow of the reality of Christ doesn't make sense to me. In a way it's as big of an insult to Christ as offering a sacrifice of a lamb would be now.

That's just my opinion on the matter.

I'm in pretty much agreement joeb. I do know that many Jewish adventists do celebrate Purim, Passover, even some of the feast days, I don't see a problem with that at all. I think Jews have lots to celebrate.

[Ron Amnsn]

In Galatians 4:10 Paul said "You observe days and months and seasons and years. He is absolutely speaking of the appointed Feasts of Israel. He is writing to the Galatians because they are being taken in by the circumcision party - who were legalistic Pharisees from Jerusalem.

So does this mean we throw out the Feasts altogether?

The key word is "observe."

If you trace that word back thru the Septuagint, you find that it means to do something very legalistically.

I don't think Paul was saying, "Throw them out." He was saying celebrate them in a new way.

We don't "go up to Jerusalem" - something required for the Feasts. We don't sacrifice a Lamb - something required.

We now have Christ as our Lamb, and our Jerusalem is - right now - above.

Rachel,

Checking out how the word "observe" is used in the Septuagint and the in the New Testament is important to understanding Galatians 4:10. You may be right that Paul is talking about God's feasts there, but I don't see how he could be. The word "observe" is translated from the Greek word "paratereo" which is usually translated as "watch" in the New Testament -- as in watching an enemy or adversary to guard against them or to plot against them. It sounds more like the Galatians were scared or superstitious about the pagan holidays, rather than legalistic about God's days.

The Jews were not the only people group that had special days, months, seasons and years. The pagan cultures had their calendars of observances too. In verse 8 Paul refers back to a time when the Galatians "did not know God". And in verse 9 Paul asks them, "how is it that you turn back again to the weak and worthless elemental things, to which you desire to be enslaved all over again?" Then in verse 10 he uses uses the "days and months and seasons and years" as evidence that they are "turning back" and that Paul may have labored over them in vain.

If observing God's Feasts legalistically was the problem, we would expect Paul to address that issue with the Jews in Jerusalem who were "all zealous for the Law", rather than with people who are turning back to behaviors they had when they did not know God.

Anyway, people should be aware that the word "paratereo" (which is translated as "observe" in Galatians 4:10) is never used in the Greek Old Testament in the context of observing the feasts or observing any of God's instructions. Every time the word "paratereo" is used anywhere else in Scripture it is in a situation where one party (or group of people) is acting as an adversary to another party. There has never been an adversarial relationship between God's appointed times and God's people. The appointed times have always been a blessing. That's why I believe Galatians 4:10 is speaking of events on the pagan calendar. Even today the pagans have days associated with "bad luck", and days when it is not good to do certain activities, like being born or getting married.

[8thdaypriest]

Everyone,

Thank you for sharing in this way. It is very good to see where others are coming from.

Someone asked me if I “keep” the Feasts. I would have to say - no. Anyone who says that they “keep” the Feasts is fooling themselves. No one can keep them as commanded. The LORD saw to that.

And yes - the LORD said they would be forever, but He didn’t tell them that there would be “time-outs” for wilderness wandering, for captivity, for dispersion.....

I try to keep them in my heart - just like I am being circumcised in heart.

I’m not sure why that is “looking back.”

What is wrong with commemorating something?

The Sabbath was commanded “back there” , but we don’t say that we are “looking back.”

If we followed your logic, we would not commemorate anything.

So - no wedding anniversary - no birthdays - no 4th of July - etc. etc.

Jesus said, "But I say to you, I will not drink of this fruit of the vine from now on UNTIL that day when I drink it new with you in My Father's kingdom." (Mat 26:29 NKJ) In context He was speaking of a specific “cup” that was consumed as part of the Passover Meal. He was NOT just talking about grape juice. That suggests we WILL celebrate the Feasts in the Kingdom.

And Paul said, “For Christ, our Passover lamb, has been sacrificed. Therefore let us keep the Festival, not with the old bread leavened with malice and wickedness, but with the unleavened bread of sincerity and truth. (NIV)

Of course - that WAS before the Temple was destroyed by the Romans.

I was 40 years old, attending an SDA church, when I realized that the “Last Supper” was a Passover Meal. Wow!! That hit me like a ton of bricks. Where had I been?

We here are all just searching, and growing. I hope we can stay kind to one-another while we share our opinions.

Shalom

Rachel