Consciences Objectors vs Military

[Neil D]

Why is it that we, today, say that it is ok to be a soldier but the idea of being a consciences is a bit too hard to do?

What are your objections to being a consciences objector...and what are your objections to being a soldier?

What is it that you like being a soldier and what do you like asa to being a consciences objector?

Just curious....

[Johann]

Just elect the right president.

Seems like it was during the Korean war I was told to be ready for a draft. Then my first child was born and President Eisenhower declared that no fathers would be drafted. I was classified at something like 1 CO - F First Class Conscientious Objector, Father. What a relief. Next time I heard from the draft board I was too old to serve.

Now there is no draft, so why worry?

[Igakusei]

I'm not sure why someone would voluntarily join the military as a conscientious objector.

[Neil D]

perhaps to show his patriotism for his country but also to show his belief not to kill another human being....

Or to take advantage of what the country is able to offer to vets and to show that he is not willing to kill another human being......

[JoeMo]

I might be off-base; but doesn't "consciencious objector" mean

"I object to killing others, even in combat"? There are plenty of non-combat jobs in the military, like doctors (my daughter is studying to be an Air Force doctor), nurses, lawyers, attaches, coders, code-breakers, programmers, etc. for those who want to serve their country in a non-combat role. There are also many non-military jobs one can take to serve their country.

[joeb]

I might be off-base; but doesn't "consciencious objector" mean

"I object to killing others, even in combat"? There are plenty of non-combat jobs in the military, like doctors (my daughter is studying to be an Air Force doctor), nurses, lawyers, attaches, coders, code-breakers, programmers, etc. for those who want to serve their country in a non-combat role. There are also many non-military jobs one can take to serve their country.

I'd agree, JoeMo, with your definition of a "conscientious objector".

[Johann]

Attractive, yes. My granddaughter is getting enlisted because the military will pay for all of her education. . .

[phkrause]

perhaps to show his patriotism for his country but also to show his belief not to kill another human being....

Or to take advantage of what the country is able to offer to vets and to show that he is not willing to kill another human being......

Exactly Neil, I was drafted back in '66. If they allowed me to re-up at the time, I would've, if they said I could do so as a CO. If I'm not mistaken they do allow that now? Or they did a while ago. But I'm not sure! I enjoyed my two years in the military. It has its benefits and its downers.

[olger]

Just elect the right president.

Seems like it was during the Korean war I was told to be ready for a draft. Then my first child was born and President Eisenhower declared that no fathers would be drafted. I was classified at something like 1 CO - F First Class Conscientious Objector, Father. What a relief. Next time I heard from the draft board I was too old to serve.

Now there is no draft, so why worry?

I was so encouraged to see this word spelled properly. Well done!

G

[olger]

I'm not sure why someone would voluntarily join the military as a conscientious objector.

I AGREE

g

[Igakusei]

I might be off-base; but doesn't "consciencious objector" mean

"I object to killing others, even in combat"? There are plenty of non-combat jobs in the military, like doctors (my daughter is studying to be an Air Force doctor), nurses, lawyers, attaches, coders, code-breakers, programmers, etc. for those who want to serve their country in a non-combat role. There are also many non-military jobs one can take to serve their country.

[Textus Receptus]

I might be off-base; but doesn't "consciencious objector" mean

"I object to killing others, even in combat"? There are plenty of non-combat jobs in the military, like doctors (my daughter is studying to be an Air Force doctor), nurses, lawyers, attaches, coders, code-breakers, programmers, etc. for those who want to serve their country in a non-combat role. There are also many non-military jobs one can take to serve their country.

I feel sorry for those poor souls that are SDA that will be "serving their country" when the Sunday Law comes into affect, helping the 2nd Beast of Revelation fulfill prophecy.

[olger]

Originally Posted By: JoeMo

I might be off-base; but doesn't "consciencious objector" mean

"I object to killing others, even in combat"? There are plenty of non-combat jobs in the military, like doctors (my daughter is studying to be an Air Force doctor), nurses, lawyers, attaches, coders, code-breakers, programmers, etc. for those who want to serve their country in a non-combat role. There are also many non-military jobs one can take to serve their country.

I feel sorry for those poor souls that are SDA that will be "serving their country" when the Sunday Law comes into affect, helping the 2nd Beast of Revelation fulfill prophecy.

Now this is a good point indeed,

G

[Igakusei]

I feel sorry for those poor souls that are SDA that will be "serving their country" when the Sunday Law comes into affect, helping the 2nd Beast of Revelation fulfill prophecy.

People told me this when I joined the military eight years ago. People told my uncle this when he was drafted in 1969. In 1940 my grandfather dropped out of nursing school and became a farmer to avoid the draft, specifically so that he wouldn't be caught "helping the 2nd Beast of Revelation fulfill prophecy." I remember reading a Signs of the Times article to similar effect from an article predating the First World War.

The years keep going by, and as far as I can tell your "Second Beast" keeps getting weaker. The older I get, the more bizarre the idea of a world-wide theocracy led by the Pope gets.

[Textus Receptus]

Originally Posted By: Textus Receptus

I feel sorry for those poor souls that are SDA that will be "serving their country" when the Sunday Law comes into affect, helping the 2nd Beast of Revelation fulfill prophecy.

People told me this when I joined the military eight years ago. People told my uncle this when he was drafted in 1969. In 1940 my grandfather dropped out of nursing school and became a farmer to avoid the draft, specifically so that he wouldn't be caught "helping the 2nd Beast of Revelation fulfill prophecy." I remember reading a Signs of the Times article to similar effect from an article predating the First World War.

The years keep going by, and as far as I can tell your "Second Beast" keeps getting weaker. The older I get, the more bizarre the idea of a world-wide theocracy led by the Pope gets.

Of course the years go by. Yet, we know the end is soon. How soon, we don't know but even in peace time, the 2nd Beast is , behind the curtain making strides to fullfill the prophecy. It will not magically appear, it needs planning, orders, contengiences etc. What ever is done, even in peace time, has helped the U.S. to become the super power that it is to be powerful enough to someday enforce the Sunday law. Again, it was a statment. This is the truth as we have a sure word in prophecy.

If you believe it will be a worldwide theocracy, you have mistaken. The sunday law will be a secular enforcement, initiated by non-secular forces. Remember, the prophecy notes you can worship the beast with your hand (those who are not religious,and choose to discount the Sabbath as fantasy) or mind (those who are religious and choose to work on the Sabbath or dishonor it in some form or fashion). The choice is yours.

I feel sorry for those poor souls that are SDA that will be "serving their country" when the Sunday Law comes into affect, helping the 2nd Beast of Revelation fulfill prophecy.

[LifeHiscost]

Quote:

The older I get, the more bizarre the idea of a world-wide theocracy led by the Pope gets.

I'm suggesting you haven't been observing the political leaders of the past nine presidential terms in the USA, each showing higher deference to the Pope, or some of the more recent speeches by the pope in which he has defined Sunday as THE day all the world would benefit from keeping.

God cares!

[John317]

Originally Posted By: Textus Receptus

I feel sorry for those poor souls that are SDA that will be "serving their country" when the Sunday Law comes into affect, helping the 2nd Beast of Revelation fulfill prophecy.

People told me this when I joined the military eight years ago. People told my uncle this when he was drafted in 1969. In 1940 my grandfather dropped out of nursing school and became a farmer to avoid the draft, specifically so that he wouldn't be caught "helping the 2nd Beast of Revelation fulfill prophecy." I remember reading a Signs of the Times article to similar effect from an article predating the First World War.

But that isn't what Seventh-day Adventists were teaching or believing in 1969. I was in the SDA Church during the Vietnam war, and was drafted into the army, and I know for a fact that neither the church nor the many SDAs I knew in the army were concerned about helping the 2nd Beast of Rev 13 fulfill prophecy. The SDA pastor who came over to our house to visit with me and give me a Bible along with Steps to Christ and other material I might need while serving in the military, never said anything about the 2nd Beast of Revelation 13.

[rudywoofs (Pam)]

Have the Presidents shown more deference to the Pope than they have to Billy Graham? Graham was spiritual advisor to several of the presidents. Maybe the Southern Baptist Convention is really the entity the SDA church should fear! :D

[Igakusei]

I'm suggesting you haven't been observing the political leaders of the past nine presidential terms in the USA, each showing higher deference to the Pope, or some of the more recent speeches by the pope in which he has defined Sunday as THE day all the world would benefit from keeping.

God cares!

I will agree that the Republican Right has gotten substantially more aligned with fundamentalist Christianity over the past few decades, and that's certainly a group that isn't shy about trying maintain that their worldview is seen as the default and "normal" one. See for example all of the drama about persecution every time a judge agrees that that public school teachers shouldn't be pushing their particular religious beliefs on their students, or Fox News' annual War on Christmas. So I definitely wouldn't put something like a Sunday law past those guys, but if the 2012 election is any indication they do seem to be losing some of their political clout. Hopefully that trend continues.

But I haven't noticed any special deference to the pope, at least any more than I've noticed an increasing acceptance of any particular non-Christian worldview as also legitimate and protected by the first amendment. Perhaps (election season aside) that just reflects a growing belief that focusing on our similarities is more important than focusing on our differences?

[Gregory Matthews]

Quote:

I'm not sure why someone would voluntarily join the military as a conscientious objector.

1) In general terms, at the present time one cannot join the military as a conscientious objector.

2) The one exception is that of a chaplain. There is no general exception for a physician.

3) On an individual basis, the military can allow someone who is a conscientious objector to join. At the present time, that would be highly unusual and generally would not happen.

4) There have been times in the past when people in very limited cases could join as a conscientious objector.

[LifeHiscost]

Quote:

that just reflects a growing belief that focusing on our similarities is more important than focusing on our differences?

I think that's what Rodney King thought after the local gendarmes made effort to control him with their nightsticks while he was still high on drugs.

"Can't we all just get along?"

God cares!

[Gregory Matthews]

Quote:

There are plenty of non-combat jobs in the military, like doctors (my daughter is studying to be an Air Force doctor), nurses, lawyers, attaches, coders, code-breakers, programmers, etc. for those who want to serve their country in a non-combat role.

Every job that you mention above has a combat related function and every one of them requires the people in those positions to be qualified in the use of weapons and prepared to use them.

Anyone who thinks otherwise clearly does not understand the foundational role of the U.S. military.

The only position in the military in which one is not required to be trained in the use of weapons and to be prepared to use them is that of a chaplain. That is due to the Geneva Convention. Due to the Geneva Convention, I was able to serve 20 years on active duty (with additional time in the Reserves) as a registered Conscientious Objector.

However, notwithstanding that I was officially a CO and not allowed to carry weapons, my job as a chaplain had a combat role.

There is no position in the U. S. Military that does not have a combat role.

When I mention being trained in the use of weapons, I am speaking from the context of personally using them. There are common core subjects that all personnel are expected to understand and to be trained in. E.G. All members of the U.S. Army are trained in chemical and biological warfare from the context of being in a battlefield where chemical and biological weapons are used.

While a chaplain, as a Field Grade officer I have had training in the use of nuclear weapons on the battlefield although I was never expected to be the one that sent them down range. There was a time when if I was given the type of nuclear weapon, the altitude at which it was detonated, and the equivalent magnitude of the blast I could calculate on paper the diameter of the 100% personnel kill zone.

[Gregory Matthews]

Quote:

Luckily in today's military (Marine Corps aside) there are jobs where you have a really solid chance of never seeing combat.

That is true only if during the time you are serving in the military this country is not at war.

When we go to war, there are no jobs in the military in which you have a solid chance of not seeing combat.

The purpose of the military is to go to war.

[LifeHiscost]

Quote:

Maybe the Southern Baptist Convention is really the entity the SDA church should fear!

For the disciple of Christ, no need to fear.

"There is no fear in love; but perfect love casts out fear, because fear involves torment. But he who fears has not been made perfect in love."1 John 4:18 NKJV

"Now when these things begin to occur, look up and lift up your heads, because your redemption (deliverance) is drawing near."Luke 21:28 AMP parenthesis theirs' LHC

God cares!

[olger]

"Acquaint now thyself with Him and be at peace."

g