Is Ted Cruz a natural born citizen?

[lazarus]

Is he?

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/post-politics/wp/2013/08/19/ted-cruz-releases-birth-certificate/

[joeb]

Is he?

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/post-politics/wp/2013/08/19/ted-cruz-releases-birth-certificate/

Racist. You're questioning the validity of a statement of a man who is a member of a minority race. You're only doing this because he's Hispanic.

[lazarus]

LOL. Of course avoiding the question.

[joeb]

LOL. Of course avoiding the question.

Just thought you'd like to hear what it sounds like coming the other way.....

[lazarus]

So you would agree that Ted Cruz is a natural born citizen then. Coming the other way? How many times have you been called a racist?

[joeb]

So you would agree that Ted Cruz is a natural born citizen then. Coming the other way? How many times have you been called a racist?

By you? Several times.

[lazarus]

By you? Several times.

Lol, Several times? I certainly would have not given you that distinction.

So back to Cruz. Do you think he's a natural born citizen?

[Ted Oplinger]

Is he?

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/post-politics/wp/2013/08/19/ted-cruz-releases-birth-certificate/

He holds dual citizenship. By the laws of citizenship, he was born to an American parent while overseas, and America confers automatic citizenship to such children. Period. End of the snark of whether he is a natural born American or not.

Since he was born in Canada, and that nation has citizenship laws very similar to our own, Ted Cruz is also a natural born Canadian citizen as well.

Dual citizenship is not an extremely rare occurrence., so Ted is not a unique individual.

As a natural born citizen, yes, Ted is indeed qualified to run for president. Indeed, he is better qualified than our current occupant of the White House, around whom the original "Birther" issue still revolves because he never did come clear on the whole Kenyan/Malaysian/Hawaiian confusion at all. Ted Cruz has released a true copy of his birth citizenship and has removed all doubt. OUr current President? The "copy" released in his name was quickly outed as a forgery. American STILL has to assume he is what he claims he is, while all the wagging heads dismiss any concern of the issue.

The only citizenship issue Ted Cruz faces should he run for President would be whether he has to let go of his Canadian citizenship or not. He has not needed to while serving as Senator, and the Constitution is completely silent on the issue. I will assume for the time being that will be the newest "Big Stink" the Democrat party will raise with respect to Ted Cruz...because that just the way the double standards work, right?

[Gibs]

Does Obama have as good of credentials as Ted Cruz and He, Obama is our president!

[lazarus]

around whom the original "Birther" issue still revolves because he never did come clear on the whole Kenyan/Malaysian/Hawaiian confusion at all.

Life is good. It's beautiful how what goes around comes around. Cruz unwitting serve to silence the birther crazies. The only individuals who were/are confused are those who hoped/thought Obama wasn't born in the USA and therefore ineligible.

The queen birther would disagree with you:

“He is not eligible,” Orly Taitz, a lawyer and dentist from California who started the movement, told Fox News Latino. “

On the flip side......

“My mom was a U.S. citizen, so I'm a citizen by birth,” Cruz told Hannity.

Do you believe that Obama's mother is a citizen? If so then he is a citizen by birth. No confusion there right?

Many conservatives are now in the position where they are forced to abandon their lunacy becasue they cannot hold that Cruz is eligible and then continue to say that Obama was not eligible

Quote:

OUr current President? The "copy" released in his name was quickly outed as a forgery.

Didn't peg you for someone who believed that the state of Hawaii was part of the plot too.

Quote:

American STILL has to assume he is what he claims he is, while all the wagging heads dismiss any concern of the issue.

Whatever you think of your own countrymen I doubt they would have elected twice if they had doubts about his citizenship. The doubts and assumptions come from the fringes of the republican party who have in some ways lost touch with reality.

As far as the US electoral system goes Cruz is well qualified. His wife is a VP at Goldman Sachs. Americans have limited options when it comes to voting against the interests of Goldman Sachs.

[lazarus]

Does Obama have as good of credentials as Ted Cruz and He, Obama is our president!

He has good credentials Now. He just renounced his Canadian citizenship. That would have been interesting....a American presidential candidate who was also a Canadian citizen. WOW! You can't make this up.

[Ted Oplinger]

Originally Posted By: Ted Oplinger

around whom the original "Birther" issue still revolves because he never did come clear on the whole Kenyan/Malaysian/Hawaiian confusion at all.

Life is good. It's beautiful how what goes around comes around. Cruz unwitting serve to silence the birther crazies. The only individuals who were/are confused are those who hoped/thought Obama wasn't born in the USA and therefore ineligible.

[Ted Oplinger]

Originally Posted By: Gibs

Does Obama have as good of credentials as Ted Cruz and He, Obama is our president!

He has good credentials Now. He just renounced his Canadian citizenship. That would have been interesting....a American presidential candidate who was also a Canadian citizen. WOW! You can't make this up.

True.

However, the Constitution was silent of the question of a person of dual citizenship serving as President. What if he hadn't renounced his Canadian citizenship, and wound up elected head of both the US and Canada?

That would be a true "global citizen", eh?

[Tom Wetmore]

The age of the mother is irrelevant. If birth is the point at which one is determined to be a natural born citizen, the mother that is a natural born citizen is a citizen from her birth. The point is that she was a US citizen at the time her child was born, having been such since the time of her own birth.

The point is that if Obama could be disqualified for being born outside of the US, so would Ted Cruz. And if he is a natural born citizen by virtue of his mother being a US citizen at the time of his birth, regardless of where, then so is Obama.

And the Muslim school renunciation of citizenship is likewise nonsense. And besides, it was not Malaysia. It was Indonesia. I lived in Indonesia. What you claim makes no sense and bears no resemblance to the facts or reality of life in Indonesia.

Every birther claim about Obama has Ben repeatedly debunked by numerous objective authorities on the subject.

[LifeHiscost]

Does Obama have as good of credentials as Ted Cruz and He, Obama is our president!

Really is irrelevant since the constitution is paid little heed to when it is not expedient.

God cares!

[Tom Wetmore]

For a rational and factual report on Ted Cruz' citizenship - http://www.dallasnews.com/news/politics/...ell-as-u.s..ece

It is interesting that when Ted Cruz was born, his father was a Cuban citizen. As the article points out that would have entitled him to be a Cuban citizen as well at the time of his birth if his father had chosen to register him with the Cuban government. (Does that make him a natural born communist?!?!) Obviously he wouldn't have likely done so since he had fled Cuba years earlier. Ted's father never applied for Canadian citizenship and only became a US citizen in 2005.

If nothing else Cruz should be the poster boy for the value and need of immigration reform. Taking the irrational hardline position of some of his fellow Tea Partiers, he and his father should have been shipped back to Cuba or forced to stay in Canada.

[lazarus]

The Republicans then clumsily picked it up later, but by then, the major news outlets had already received their marching orders, and were told to call it a "dead issue".

It really does not matter who started it. The GOP picked up the ball and ran with it and continues to rack up points for the blue team. It was and is a dead issue. The major news outlets were right to leave it alone.

This is a great example of how the right is being plagued with political hallucinations. There are people on the right who actually think this is a real issue. It's in the mind and the nature of politricks these days is that these illusions becomes to stuff of political discourse.

Quote:

Ms. "Queen Bither" is as out to lunch on Ted Cruz as she is on Obama's birthplace issue. As I said before, Ms. Taitz did NOT start the issue.

Trouble is that she took a lot of republicans with her and they are still at the table with her. Intelligent people have been duped into thinking there is something to this.

Quote:

If she wasn't old enough to confer citizenship by birth,

She was old enough. Desperate straw clutching right there.

Quote:

No, most of them have a good understanding as to what the law says in the regard to the matter. It's not the place of Obama's birth which calls into question his eligibility to serve as President at all.

You're rewriting birther history. The main issue was always whether the President was born in the US.

Quote:

Of course, Laz. However, the RINO's (aka, the Republican establishment crowd of "moderates") have no qualms about squelching Ted Cruz, as they cannot control him.

Don't put your hopes in Ted Cruz. I think he's already been bought and paid for. Most who pursue power are either mediocre or venal as Chris Hedges likes to say.

[Neil D]

The issue of contention is the cover-up of when Barak attended the Muslim schools in Malaysia as a youth. By Malaysian law, attendance to those schools at that time could only be by citizens of Malaysia, whether natural born or naturalized. Malaysian law, furthermore, required new citizens - even youth - to renounce their previous citizenship in order to attend their Muslim schools.

Hence, because it is well-known Barak Obama attended school in Malaysia during his middle school years, it is expected that he had his citizenship renounced by his guardians to attend school there. That, Lazarus, would have made Obama ineligible to serve as President, as then he would have to have become a naturalized citizen - just like any other foreign national. The place of his birth would no longer matter - any natural-born US citizen who renounces their citizenship becomes ineligible to serve as President, because they are now solely a citizen of another country.

Aside from acknowledging he did indeed attend school in Malaysia, ALL other records about that are conveniently sealed away at taxpayer cost; of course, had Barak had an ® by his name instead of a (D), the media would have insisted those records be made public, as "the people have a right o know, don't they?" - just like they did with Bush, right? Oh...that's right - the old double standard at work there.

Ted-

describe "middle school years"....Need clarification of that, please....

[Ted Oplinger]

Don't put your hopes in Ted Cruz. I think he's already been bought and paid for. Most who pursue power are either mediocre or venal as Chris Hedges likes to say.

Hmmmm....we can definitely agree on this point, Laz.

I don't think the power-brokers of this world thought Obama would be this bad of a President for the US, and I think they severely underestimated the spinelessness of the Republican party. The rest of the world looks at Obama as a joke of a president, and wonder at just how Americans put such a man into office - twice.

While the world wanted the US to be brought down a notch or two in standing, I do not think they did not anticipated Obama would have deviated so far from what they wanted to have. If the US is going to get back on script, the US will need a President within the next couple of election cycles that will restore the US to a global standing of strength. This is not just a political outlook - it is what must happen for the Earth Beast prophecy to be fulfilled (if we have indeed interpreted that correctly).

If Ted Cruz is to be the next President, he will indeed have been bought and placed there for the specific purpose of putting the US back on path again, Republican establishment notwithstanding.

Reagan was bought and paid for to be Carter's replacement, because both the US and the USSR were going off-script. Reagan corrected the US path, then bankrupted the USSR to bring that regime down. I am of the understanding Reagan did what he was told to do a little TOO efficiently, as it resulted in too much of a recovery for Russia, and too much global and economic strength for the US, in the eyes of the world power-brokers.

A strong US in both influence/leadership and economy will eventually be noted as indispensable to putting the desired global confederacy together, foreign distaste of American pop-culture notwithstanding. However, to put a bought and paid for Cruz into the Presidency, the world power-brokers have an extraordinarily difficult task ahead of them - turning around the media machine they have artfully put in place for the singular purpose of shaping the thoughts of the masses, and turning around 2 political parties that continue their drive toward the deconstruction of each other and of the USA as nation.

Later...

[Neil D]

Originally Posted By: Ted Oplinger

Hence, because it is well-known Barak Obama attended school in Malaysia during his middle school years, it is expected that he had his citizenship renounced by his guardians to attend school there. That, Lazarus, would have made Obama ineligible to serve as President, as then he would have to have become a naturalized citizen - just like any other foreign national. The place of his birth would no longer matter - any natural-born US citizen who renounces their citizenship becomes ineligible to serve as President, because they are now solely a citizen of another country.

Aside from acknowledging he did indeed attend school in Malaysia, ALL other records about that are conveniently sealed away at taxpayer cost; of course, had Barak had an ® by his name instead of a (D), the media would have insisted those records be made public, as "the people have a right o know, don't they?" - just like they did with Bush, right? Oh...that's right - the old double standard at work there.

Ted-

describe "middle school years"....Need clarification of that, please....

Ted, it's been over 24hours since I asked for clarification....and you have answered someone else over this thread....so,I suspect that you are ignoring me....Not wanted to start an contest over Obama's history, I couldn't help but notice that there were some strange "facts" being presented.

So, I have contested your "facts" with mine in an effort to clarify where you got your "facts".....

For example, because it is well-known Barak Obama attended school in Malaysia ...I've gone to several biography sites, and all of them say that it wasn't Malaysia that Obama went to...but rather "Indonesia". Dictionary and google maps show a bit of overlapping,, but his biography specified a city "Jakarta" that they lived in...Jakarta is NOT part of Malaysia nor the Malay Pennisula.

Now, if it was well known that Obama went to Malaysia, how come there are AT LEAST 3 out of 5 sites that state he went to Indonesia??? Apparently, it is not as "well known" as your post lets on....

Also, these parts of the world, while close, are not the same. There is several hundred miles separating them...And if someone were to bring evidence that he showed up in a school in Malaysia, it might give credence to the birther's claims...

And there is MY question of during his middle school years and what are considered "middle school years"? Well, my experience of "middles school years" were limited to 7 to 9 grades....But the American Heritage online dictionary says that 5 thru 8.....there are other that allow 6-9...I suspect those are British dictionarys....I find that the school that he went to during that time was not a muslim school. In fact, the articles [at least 3] say he went into the esteemed Punahou Academy...In case you are wondering, it has him listed as going in in the 5th grade, at age 10....They have him listed as graduated from that school along with some other notable students....did I say notable??? I want to impress upon you that this school graduates some of the notable athletic, academic, philanthropy, political students that ever graced a schools halls....

So, where you got your information regarding Obama being a non-qualified canidate for president, is a bit sketchy at best.

Just thought you might want to know....

[Tom Wetmore]

For the facts debunking much of this malarkey about Obama - http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/muslim.asp .

Just to clarify, his middle school years were at the Punahou Academy in Hawaii. The five years he live in Indonesia were before that where he attended elementary school, the first 2 years at a Catholic school and the next 3 at a public school. If as claimed, his step father was some kind of radical Muslim, why would he have allowed him to be sent to a Catholic school!?!? And as both reported by CNN and the Associated Press, the Indonesian public school was a secular school that had students from a variety of faiths.

From my own experience from living in Indonesia in the late 70's as a student missionary, I can assure you that while Indonesia is the largest Muslim country, the majority were and still are secular or moderate Muslims and the government is secular. The government run public schools were secular. I personally taught the children of the Director of the Education Department for that region of Indonesia. I was teaching them English at their home and later persuaded them to come to our language school. While presumably Muslim, they certainly were not radical.

[joeb]

Originally Posted By: joeb

By you? Several times.

Lol, Several times? I certainly would have not given you that distinction.

So back to Cruz. Do you think he's a natural born citizen?

Yeah, you've accused me several times.

Yes, he's a US citizen. His mother was a US citizen when he was born. That makes him a US citizen. No question about it.

That he was born in Canada is irrelevant to his US citizenship. All his place of birth does is give him dual citizenship.

Edit:

The orginal post of mine was really just about letting a liberal hear the same kind of junk they spout at conservatives all the time.

[Ted Oplinger]

Ted, it's been over 24hours since I asked for clarification....and you have answered someone else over this thread....so,I suspect that you are ignoring me....Not wanted to start an contest over Obama's history, I couldn't help but notice that there were some strange "facts" being presented.

Actually, it's now some ~72 hours after you requested clarification. No, I wouldn't ignore such a sweet gentleman as yourself, Neil; I've simply been short on time. In that you have noted I have posted in response to others - some were just little blurbs taking little time, and others were indeed longer, so I had to choose one thread over another. And, yes, some subjects are much more important than political discussions, particularly over the Sabbath hours.

I've been busy for the last two days...it was my Sabbath for leading the worship service, so there was a sermon to prep, etc., etc....

I was tired when I wrote that post, and was not up to my usual snuff. Yes, as Tom astutely pointed out, Malaysia is not the country, but rather Indonesia. Why I was thinking Malayasia that night, I do not know - perhaps it is because they are in the same geographic region of the earth...and that Malaysia also does not recognize dual citizenship with the USA, just as Indonesia doesn't. Certainly it wouldn't be because I know you and Tom would be along to read and would instantly pounce on a known conservative's misstatements, would it?

In reference to the school aspect - same mistake. I knew it was prior to his schooling in Hawaii. Yes, Obama was the tender age of 6 years old when his mother married an Indonesian man. It is what happened during that 4-5 year span, when Obama was not in control of who made what claim of citizenship for him, where there is a conflict of information. There is the point that there are documents which declare Obama's last name to be Soetoro, and listed as being Indonesian in nationality, among the school records of the day. That would be evidence that the US citizenship had been renounced, regardless of the residency policy for foreign nationals attending the public school system in Indonesia.

As I did maintain before, there is so much contrived murkiness, added to the over-the-top reactions from his supporters when it is suggested Obama comply with the same ridiculous open information questions placed upon every non-Democrat since Ronald Reagan became President, such there is good reason for the mystery behind it all. Was he? Or was he not? Most of hist schooling and past are sealed up at the cost of millions to the taxpayer, so...to use the same reasoning I have heard from the Left side of the aisle ad naseum toward every non-Democrat seeking any measure of privacy - there must be something worth hiding in Barak's past, right?

All of these issues would simply evaporate in the sunshine of full disclosure - but all that gets returned is snark, sarcasm, apologetics, and issued "facts" that must be presumed true with no way to verify because...well, that verification is sealed up tighter than Fort Knox.

I guess if there wasn't such vitriol spilled on Bush, and since Obama has purposefully made himself a man of mystery exempt from accepted disclosure practices, we will really never know if you have the true "facts"...or just political propaganda...will we?

See around the playground!

[Ted Oplinger]

The original post of mine was really just about letting a liberal hear the same kind of junk they spout at conservatives all the time.

Yep...and the thin-skin really shows, too...

[lazarus]

Yes, he's a US citizen. His mother was a US citizen when he was born. That makes him a US citizen. No question about it.

That he was born in Canada is irrelevant to his US citizenship. All his place of birth does is give him dual citizenship.

So do you believe that your president is a natural born citizen?