SDA Pastor grilled on the show "The BIG QUESTION"

[BobRyan]

Here we see an SDA pastor being grilled by atheist/agnostics and even a Christian cleric who apparently thinks the Bible is not to be believed else you are a wicked "fundamentalist" just like all the others in all the other religions.

[rudywoofs (Pam)]

I didn't care for the way the SDA pastor presented his case.... it made me sort of cringe...

[olger]

Very interesting. Daniel in the critics den.

Who would you prefer to have answer those questions?

Randy Skeete

Stephen Bohr

Dwayne Lemon

CD Brooks

Lewis Walton

Like to see these men have a "go" at it.

[phkrause]

I thought he did as good a job as he could, under the circumstance's he was under. I find it funny, without laughing at those that were laughing. We so try to laugh away anything that really makes us afraid. I also thought that the last comments by the one woman were very interesting. She make some good points. Had the program given enough time I believe the SDA man would've been able to answer her points, one by one. The problem with programs like these, is, there is never enough time given to really answer or there are to many people trying to talk, attack, etc., at the same time.

[Tom Wetmore]

Yes, in that format and type of show, I am not so sure anyone else could have done much better. The questions and laughter does suggest how others not steeped in Christian teaching do perceive us and misunderstand what we say. It is as if we are speaking a foreign language.

[Gregory Matthews]

These things are only of value when each person is given enough time, without interruption, to make a statement and all listen respectfully to what is being said.

Few of us want to do that.

[Gregory Matthews]

Quote:

Here we see an SDA pastor being grilled by atheist/agnostics . . .

Perhaps this is true. But, it was not evident from the short video clip. So, what is the basis for stating it as a fact?

[olger]

I thought he did as good a job as he could, under the circumstance's he was under. I find it funny, without laughing at those that were laughing. We so try to laugh away anything that really makes us afraid. I also thought that the last comments by the one woman were very interesting. She make some good points. Had the program given enough time I believe the SDA man would've been able to answer her points, one by one. The problem with programs like these, is, there is never enough time given to really answer or there are to many people trying to talk, attack, etc., at the same time.

Yeah, she spoke well. It is understandable that she would be incredulous at Seventh-day Adventism after articulating her own religion - rabid environmentalism.

Jesus is coming back to destroy unrighteousness against His Law.

rejoice always,

`G

[Naomi]

He did very well under the conditions in which he was attempting to communicate.

[ClubV12]

Pearls and swine, come to mind. I say that with compassion and sympathy, as those ensnared by Satans charms are unable to grasp the truth.

[debbym]

true spirituality is not fundie, neither is it new age, or modern metaphysical interpretations of scripture, neither it is compassion for the environment.

the reality of who Jesus was and what His relationship to His father was, and what he did when he came into the world, and what he is doing today, and what he will do when he comes defines all spirituality.

i believe this guy was simply turning to scripture and he felt the reality he was in, he was in the face of human unbelief and also religious heresy. I do not think this was a wise decision to be in that room, which was designed occasion to ridicule God's truth.

Jesus when we came in person he was not received any better then those words of scripture were received in this room.

we do not have a Savior who is going to protect us from the ridicule and scorn of the world, or the hatred of the world, potentially even martyrdom. He met it before and he will met it again in us. but i do not think it is wise to set oneself up on a stage for this ridicule.

when the enemy falls back in his attacks on truth he simply loses again the ground he lost at every advanced step of Jesus life. He worked to keep his adherents blind even when they were in the very presence of pure divine love so he would not lose them, and he still lost many. Everyone still chose to receive his spirit and turn from sin and self or to cling even more desperately to the covering of darkness and blindness.

There are vast multitudes who would confidently and technically assert that i am schizophrenic for even thinking or imagining this spiritual reality is true.

believing in Jesus and living by Faith in the power of God's love in His word and promises, is not ever going to become a popular thing, and will always be up for ridicule around the corner.

Fundamentalist do it themselves, they take to themselves God's word and instead of being God wielded they wield God, and it is not pretty. They love truth but not the humble Jesus. We can love the bible and love eg white, and love the wonderful seamless doctrines, and not love Jesus. we can weep over the suffering of Jesus on the cross and not love His Character and not see ourselves as sinners in need of that cleansing blood.

There were Jews that loved the beauty of the temple, and took pride in the glory of God's blessings, but hated Jesus just the same. Satan was in the very presence of God, and his sin was that he wanted to take to himself the glory of God, and was not content to remain a created being and just reflect God's glory as it shone on him.

so there is no place where sin is not ready to assert itself, close to God or far from God.

the enemy has a pitfall for everyone, whatever direction they are coming from, and we all come from the direction of some form of sin and selfishness. there are no exceptions.

God remains the source of our salvation from ourselves.

[LifeHiscost]

Quote:

God remains the source of our salvation from ourselves.

And from the prince of darkness. When Jesus was brought before the worlds court, it was stacked against Him and much of His testimony was found more in His silence except when He was directly questioned to speak under oath. He answered to reveal Who He really was and where His kingdom reigned supreme.

"“Your own people and their leading priests brought you to me for trial. Why? What have you done?”

Jesus answered, “My Kingdom is not an earthly kingdom. If it were, my followers would fight to keep me from being handed over to the Jewish leaders. But my Kingdom is not of this world.”

Pilate said, “So you are a king?”

Jesus responded, “You say I am a king. Actually, I was born and came into the world to testify to the truth. All who love the truth recognize that what I say is true."

John 18:35-37 NLT

"Then the high priest stood up and said to Jesus, “Well, aren’t you going to answer these charges? What do you have to say for yourself?” But Jesus remained silent. Then the high priest said to him, “I demand in the name of the living God—tell us if you are the Messiah, the Son of God.”

Jesus replied, “You have said it. And in the future you will see the Son of Man seated in the place of power at God’s right hand and coming on the clouds of heaven.”"

Matthew 26:62-64 NLT

God cares!

[fccool]

The real question is whether:

1) Ridicule is unjustified

2) Whether faith-based assertions should be treated on the par with our observations of reality.

We generally base our decisions in the world based on observable knowledge. If someone walked over to you and said that he can become invisible, but you have to first believe that and give him $50 to demonstrate - you should be suspicious, and such person should be ridiculed... not because there's no remote possibility of such claim being viable, but because of the conditions set surrounding the demonstration of evidence.

Let's examine conditional supernatural claims of Christianity:

1) God exists, but He is invisible, and will not just show up and prove things to you whenever you want to

2) He will only show evidence to people who are accept his existence and believe that He is real, and accept that...

3) The Bible is His message to humanity, even though we don't have the original, but have copy of the copy of the copy, many of which differ in content, and include some things that were previously excluded, and exclude some things that were previously included.

4) The prayer works, but only if we believe that it does, and only if we ask for something that would otherwise have a chance to occur anyway. For example, there's no use to ask for a person who lost a leg to get a new one. But, if you are short on cash, and pray and get an incidental IRS refund - that's an answer to a prayer, and obvious miracle from God.

5) Jesus is coming back, but no one knows when, even though 3-4 generations of Adventists were certain that it would happen in their generation, you know with WWI, and then WWII, and then economic crises of 80s, and then 90s, and then Y2K, and then 2008 economic crises, and now debt issue and Obama... The drumming up of "fulfillment of prophecies" in our lifetime never seems to end, and every generation seems to find ways to make it seem like things are worse than they ever been in history of the world.

6) And above all, God really did create the world 6000 years ago, and it only looks like the Earth is really old.

And on and on.

The point being, is that Christianity right now is at crossroads, and many of the progressives are beginning to see that they are now having to actually do the due diligence and dig for the evidence that people are asking for - and they can't find it. What they find is a very different story from which they originally heard, and the fact that if Constantine didn't make Christianity a state religion, it would devolve into obscurity with its contemporaries, and people would probably believe some other form of Roman paganism.

So, one of the larger ironies is that Adventists almost equate Constantine and Papacy with Antichrist power, when without them Adventism wouldn't even exist, because Christian sects were no larger than any other pagan sects during that time, and had to compete with a wide variety of contemporary religions of the day. If Constantine didn't enforce Christianity, it would likely disappear into obscurity a long time ago. The fact is - the religions that we have predominantly survived are either cultural traditionalism religions, like Judaism and Hinduism, or the conquest religions like Islam and Christianity, which force-converted the followers.

But, here's the point about ridiculing. Ridiculing can come from a broader understanding, and not from ignorance. I'll give you a small example of something that you perhaps are not aware of.

Let's consider the "important divine information" theory. Jesus comes to Earth at a very peculiar time - the time when ancient medicine and understanding could really have used some help. People were not aware of germs. People were not aware of basic medical knowledge that we today take for granted and as "given". As a result, they had over %50 child and infant mortality, which is absolutely atrocious. If you don't understand the implications of this, simply imagine every other child you know dead, either at birth or by the age of 2. All of this could have been easily prevented by following very simple instructions that modern societies follow today.

God gives 10 commandments at Sinai - these instructions do very little to fix that bleak problem. Jesus comes, and provides no relevant information about it. We have to wait another 2000 years until human science finally figures out how to fix things by doing very basic procedures.

Here's the thing. If ANY OF US could travel back in time, that's the very first thing we would tell people. Any of us with that knowledge would have enough compassion on people who don't understand to make their lives easier, and share this very basic knowledge that would save hundreds of thousands, or even millions of innocent lives.

Here's an obvious question - why would any of us be more compassionate than Christian God in such situation?

You see, most of Christians have no idea about philosophical implications of such ideology, because they don't have thorough understanding or asked enough questions to arrive at certain conclusion. When they are confronted with harsh criticism, they take it as "ridicule", when in reality it's them who are making ridiculous statements, while ridiculing everyone else from the pulpit and from the books of their ideological doctrines. Adventistm is perhaps one of the most egregious offenders, because it elevates itself to the level of utmost importance with a message that resulted from improper interpretation, and then patching the hole via a duct tape of an explanation.

[fccool]

I know that such criticism is perhaps a bit harsh, but we have to consider could be more important to God in our day and age. If you really think that it's justifiable to waste billions of dollars on maintaining organizational structure, the purpose of which seems to be scaring people into "understanding" something that's arguably very unclear - then why should people take it seriously?

In Adventism, the core Christian principle seem to take the back seat to the "mission". And the mission doesn't seem to be compassionately alleviating the suffering by demonstrating God's character in this world. The mission seems to be proclaiming God's judgement. One really doesn't need to go very far in order to see how such mentality will reflect one's priorities and function.

[ClubV12]

In Adventism the core Christian principle is the three angels message. It's a worthy goal to deliver them with all required compassion and love. As to the messages themselves, they are blunt and to the point.

1st Angel. "Fear God", His judgment is come. Fear, it is often said, as used here means respect, even love. It also means just what it says, "fear", be terrified. Work out your own salvation with trembling. This is the day of His judgment and your life record is a mess, it demands death. Your only hope is Jesus.

2nd Angel. "Babylon is fallen". This is a call to repentance, the LAST call to planet earth. Jesus is pleading with you to repent, for why will you die? You have to make a choice, He cannot make it for you.

3rd Angel. "If any man worship the beast". His cup of wrath will be poured out without mixture, torment, fire and brimstone, eternal death.

Harsh reality, somber truth, serious times in which we live. It was these messages that woke me up. I considered my life and knew I was doomed. I needed to find God, I didn't know what that meant, but I knew I needed to. In finding Him, my dull mind begins to awaken to His great love and mercy. Love inspires me to follow Him. But first, I had to made aware of my condition, I needed to "fear God" in every sense of the word. Might be different for you...

[LifeHiscost]

Quote:

Whether faith-based assertions should be treated on the par with our observations of reality.

Whether we believe it or not, the One Who at last reigns supreme will see His will being accomplished to perfection (thats called reality)and those who share in His will being accomplished are going to enjoy it for eternity.

This is the generation that will be experiencing that reality.

"...for many will come in my name, claiming, ‘I am the Messiah.’ They will deceive many. And you will hear of wars and threats of wars, but don’t panic. Yes, these things must take place, but the end won’t follow immediately. Nation will go to war against nation, and kingdom against kingdom. There will be famines and earthquakes in many parts of the world."Matthew 24:5-7 NLT

"Truly I say to you, this generation will not pass away until all these things take place"

Matthew 24:34 NASB

God cares!

[LifeHiscost]

Quote:

You see, most of Christians have no idea about philosophical implications of such ideology, because they don't have thorough understanding or asked enough questions to arrive at certain conclusion. When they are confronted with harsh criticism, they take it as "ridicule", when in reality it's them who are making ridiculous statements, while ridiculing everyone else from the pulpit and from the books of their ideological doctrines. Adventistm is perhaps one of the most egregious offenders, because it elevates itself to the level of utmost importance with a message that resulted from improper interpretation, and then patching the hole via a duct tape of an explanation.

I have to admit, the proof is in the puddin', and the puddin' ain't done yet. If this is but a fairy tale, then no one has anything to worry about. We all get to die without a doubt.

"Then the kings of the earth and the great men and the commanders and the rich and the strong and every slave and free man hid themselves in the caves and among the rocks of the mountains; and they *said to the mountains and to the rocks, “Fall on us and hide us from the presence of Him who sits on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb; for the great day of their wrath has come, and who is able to stand?”"Revelation 6:15-17 NASB

God cares!

[CoAspen]

Quote:

In Adventism, the core Christian principle seem to take the back seat to the "mission". And the mission doesn't seem to be compassionately alleviating the suffering by demonstrating God's character in this world. The mission seems to be proclaiming God's judgement. One really doesn't need to go very far in order to see how such mentality will reflect one's priorities and function.

Certainly a possibility among the more conservative/fundamental elements of the Church. What happens on these forums could be construed as proof, ie, anytime there is talk of helping others a large discussion follows as to criteria the helpee must meet.There are those who will proclaim that judgement, hell and you better change your ways, Is The Message. Historically that has been tried by other organizations in the past and failed. We have to some extent forgotten about the the life of Christ on this earth and His predominate work and message of His time. Even His words when asked by the disciples as to what was 'His' work was, is forgotten. What were the words, seek and save the lost, bring help to those in need.

[ClubV12]

The Adventist Church... "it elevates itself to the level of utmost importance".

The Adventist people are Gods chosen people, His chosen Church, for this time, just as the Jews were in their time. We have been given a message for the world that is of the highest importance in all the world.

When Jesus told the woman at the well, "Salvation is of the Jews", He meant they ALONE carried His special message to the world. A message that could not be found in any other people, no other tribe on earth, it was exclusive to the Jews. The salvation message was appointed to them to give to the world.

So it is today, salvation is of the Seventh-day Adventist Church. They alone bear a special message to a dieing world. And many a Samaritan and other peoples rejected that message simply because they hated the Jews.

Many will be offended that "salvation is of the Seventh-day Adventist Church". They will reject the message because they think the Church is being arrogant and proud. Just as the Samaritans rejected the message for the same reasons.

[LifeHiscost]

Quote:

And the mission doesn't seem to be compassionately alleviating the suffering by demonstrating God's character in this world.

Obviously you haven't been associating among those who are actively experiencing the reason why Jesus came to this earth and why He's sharing His Spirit with all of those who freely are willing to let His Spirit accomplish His will for all mankind.

"For the Son of Man has come to seek and to save that which was lost.”"Luke 19:10 NASB

"And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh...."Acts 2:17 KJV

" “As surely as I live, says the Sovereign Lord, I take no pleasure in the death of wicked people. I only want them to turn from their wicked ways so they can live. Turn! Turn from your wickedness, O people of Israel! Why should you die?"

“Son of man, give your people this message: The righteous behavior of righteous people will not save them if they turn to sin, nor will the wicked behavior of wicked people destroy them if they repent and turn from their sins."

Ezekiel 33:10-12 NLT

God cares!

[Jeannieb43]

Where did this TV show interview take place?

I found a Warrington, U.K. on Google Maps; it's located not far from Manchester, England. The participants in this program seemed to me to have British accents.

The location isn't crucial, only interesting, to me. The SDA gentleman did a credible job of answering the questions. I don't know why he placed himself in that situation, if it was voluntary. I'd much prefer answering those same questions in a small group where we aren't being broadcast out over the airwaves at the same time. Not having a "friendly" audience wouldn't bother me; it's just that I'd prefer having eye contact with those who are asking me the questions, in order to determine for myself if they're seriously interested in the answers.

I know that optimal time will not always be mine, however. We may be called upon to answer for our faith in the halls of justice.

[Gail]

Quote:

And the mission doesn't seem to be compassionately alleviating the suffering by demonstrating God's character in this world

Acts of mercy is what the world should be noticing and remembering about God's people wherever they are, unless they WANT the general secular public to think that the God they are like is dogmatic and cruel.

I like the account of the group of Christians who didn't want to see the dead of the poor not given a proper burial, so they did it for them. That was one thing that distinguished them in the eyes of the Romans- they provided acts of kindness and mercy.

Through history they are out there, but since (they say) it takes 10 positives to outdo one negative, chances are if the bad is being remembered then there aren't the 10X as many positives produced.

Even so, I would like to see nobility held up no matter who does it. Pay it forward! Lord knows, we've been blessed abundantly!

[Gail]

There are times when a hard message must be delivered... This reminds me of Dr. Ben Carson's breakfast dinner speech with the President present. After he was done, people were ready to nominate him for the Presidency.

When a person who displays true Godlike qualities, as I esteem Dr. Carson to, somehow it makes the hard message easier to swallow.

There is something that glorifies God when virtue is shown in someone's life.

[LifeHiscost]

Quote:

"salvation is of the Seventh-day Adventist Church"

I'm sorry, club12, that I cannot agree with that.

"But as for me, I will watch expectantly for the Lord; I will wait for the God of my salvation. My God will hear me."Micah 7:7 NASB

Many who do not exercise the Spirit of God are not, and some who will not know until they meet their change, will be ensconced in the unique truths of the Adventist faith.

Nothing is more essential to communion with God than the most profound humility. “I dwell,” says the High and Holy One, “with him that is contrite and of a humble spirit.” While you are so eagerly striving to be first, remember that you will be last in the favor of God, if you fail to cherish a meek and lowly spirit. Pride of heart will cause many to fail where they might have made a success. “Before honor is humility, and the humble in spirit is greater than the proud in spirit.” “When Ephraim spake tremblingly, he exalted himself in Israel; but when he offended in Baal, he died.” “Many are called, but few chosen.” Many hear the invitation of mercy, are tested and proved; but few are sealed with the seal of the living God. Few will humble themselves as a little child, that they may enter the kingdom of Heaven. {PH117 25.1}

God cares!

[ClubV12]

From the BBC:

This episode was done at the Manor Church of England Academy a coeducational secondary school in York, England. With Ferril Ferrol from the "Church of God, Seventh Day".

HOWEVER, it appears the Ferril Ferrol is actually a Seventh-day Adventist because the "7th day Church" does not exist in England.

I understand LifeHiscost, but lets review the Adventist message of salvation and the Churches official position on this.

The salvation message incorporates much more than the three angels message, but that is our primary message. The Jews message of salvation also incorporated much more than their primary message, which was a Messiah that would come. You did not have to BE a Jew to find salvation, Adventists understand that concept well. "Many sheep have I there are not of this fold".

Back to the women at the well. Samaritans had a form of religion similiar in some ways to Jewish system (which they despised and hated very much). The Samaritans had a FALSE RELIGION. Jesus was telling the woman to "come out of her my people". To leave that false religion because the TRUE salvation message would be found in the Jewish religion.

So it is today, some Baptists, Mormons, Catholics will find salvation, but they are in a FALSE RELIGION. They need to come out, because "salvation today is of the Seventh-day Adventist Church". Thats just the way it is.

The Samaritans had good reason to hate the Jews, who "corporately speaking" WERE arrogant and proud and hypocritical. But there were also, THEE chosen people and God still honored that. They alone had the correct religion for that time, as do Seventh-day Adventists today.

When this correct, appointed religion of God, Seventh-day Adventistism, comes to people, "FEW WILL HUMBLE THEMSELVES AS LITTLE CHILDREN" to embrace it. Their pride, their anger, will prevent them in the same way it prevented Samaritans.