individual responsibility and obamacare

[ClubV12]

The Oregon Health Plan is a State insurance plan for low income or disabled people. It was greatly expanded and gained additional funding through the affordable care act. I did not qualify for that State plan before, now I do.

Medicaid is different, those who qualified for that are already on it.

I'n not real interested in the politics, whose in office, how we got here, what it might do. I already KNOW where we are headed! It won't be Obama's fault, or Bush or any President or party. It is beyond their control.

Meanwhile, only a fool would turn down affordable health insurance as a way to "protest" while putting their family, house and assetts at risk. Kind of like shooting yourself in the foot, or pounding your head against the wall because it feels good when you stop.

By the way, you've been watching to much FOX news, your numbers and estimates are way off.

Yes, you are being extremely selfish, you would deny insurance to those who do not have it and cannot get it.

[olger]

JoeB soundin good.

[ClubV12]

I don't believe our calling, as a people, tells us to be deeply involved in politics.

That the economy is going to collapse is a given, and it won't matter by which means, party or President it comes about. I'm not real interested in supporting the middle class comfortable lifestyle. The BEST thing that could happen to them is to wake up one day and realize our entire economy is based on consumerism, playing, having a nice time, a nice car, a nice vacation. And suddenly, thats all gone!

WHY is God going to allow economic collapse? To get peoples attention! Bring it on, if the Affordable Care Act promotes that, I'm all for it. Rejoice! Your income is about to be terminated, then what will you do? THEN you will find out if you serious about following God or not.

All these things must come to pass... lets get it on, because no one can stop it.

[Gibs]

The only ones it is benefiting is the rich, illegals and some poor.

We sure as tooting are living in the modern day of Noe.

Lu 17:26 And as it was in the days of Noe, so shall it be also in the days of the Son of man.

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[joeb]

I don't believe our calling, as a people, tells us to be deeply involved in politics.

That the economy is going to collapse is a given, and it won't matter by which means, party or President it comes about. I'm not real interested in supporting the middle class comfortable lifestyle. The BEST thing that could happen to them is to wake up one day and realize our entire economy is based on consumerism, playing, having a nice time, a nice car, a nice vacation. And suddenly, thats all gone!

WHY is God going to allow economic collapse? To get peoples attention! Bring it on, if the Affordable Care Act promotes that, I'm all for it. Rejoice! Your income is about to be terminated, then what will you do? THEN you will find out if you serious about following God or not.

All these things must come to pass... lets get it on, because no one can stop it.

[ClubV12]

Joeb, when you say things like anybody who signs up is paying for someones abortion, you really show your ignorance.

No wonder your numbers can't be trusted, thats "right wing nut" talk for Fox news viewers. Now go to your room and clean your gun.

AND stop paying Federal taxes, thats right, because your paying for someones elses bomb and war.

Pfffftttt, I do get tired of the right wing nuts drinking the fox kool aid,,,

[joeb]

Joeb, when you say things like anybody who signs up is paying for someones abortion, you really show your ignorance.

No wonder your numbers can't be trusted, thats "right wing nut" talk for Fox news viewers. Now go to your room and clean your gun.

AND stop paying Federal taxes, thats right, because your paying for someones elses bomb and war.

Pfffftttt, I do get tired of the right wing nuts drinking the fox kool aid,,,

When you can't dispute the facts, attack the person. The last refuge of those on the wrong side of the facts.

[joeb]

Read the following link. It comes from that right wing nut job Forbes.com. The article estimates 93 million people losing their coverage, and that estimate comes directly from the government's own documents.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/theapothecar...nder-obamacare/

Duke's researcher said up to 129 million people will lose their coverage.

http://dailycaller.com/2013/11/04/expert...ly-implemented/

All this so Obama can force socialism on this country. Rejoice in knowing that your coverage is going to be paid for by all of those who are going to have their health insurance costs skyrocket.

Just wait until Obama gets around to his carbon tax. He says when it is enacted that "energy prices will necessarily skyrocket". That's a direct quote from Obama himself from several years ago. He got stopped in first attempt to do put this tax into effect, but I'm betting he'll try again. After all, his agenda is to bankrupt this country.

[phkrause]

After all, his agenda is to bankrupt this country.

To what end?? So that the democrats can lose in '16. And do you really believe that the republicans, should they win in '16, change those policies?? People said the same thing in '08, that if the democrats win, they will change what the previous policies were!! Obviously that didn't happen. I think we need to start realizing that neither party cares for the little man! As a matter of fact I'd say that we really have one party in government today not two as so many seem to believe.

[ClubV12]

GOP is so filled with right wing nut radicals, joeb, they won't have a potus in office for decades to come.

Not that it would make any difference who's in office. NOBODY is going to stop the train wreck.

[olger]

[phkrause]

What I see is a thread that has nothing to do with "Theology" but much to do with cesspool politics once again! There has been only one poster, Club, that has actually posted anything of value!

[olger]

Obama's appearance yesterday was a long, rambling, barely coherent mess strung together by football analogies and seatbelt similes. At one point he admitted he "wasn't a perfect man" and -- while that moment of clarity may count for something -- it was about the only incontrovertible point he managed to make.

G

[phkrause]

Could you show a clip of that! Because I saw it totally different. And I've heard him on many occasions mentioning that he was not perfect!

[Liz]

Well, unless something changes there are going to be a lot of Texans still doing without insurance. Texas did not expand Medicaid nor did they participate in the exchanges. And as far as the subsidies go, if they see that you qualified for Medicaid, yet can't get Medicaid then they just exempt you from any fines.

Right now, we don't have insurance, but are exempt from any penalties. There are a lot of Texans in my boat, too.

I really had high hopes for ACA, we needed it desperately. But I'm not sure what is going to happen now.

[bonnie]

Could you show a clip of that! Because I saw it totally different. And I've heard him on many occasions mentioning that he was not perfect!

It is pretty self serving to aknowledge "I am not perfect" after lying about what Obamacare would do since it's inception.

He has not been asked to be "perfect" only stop the lies about Obamacare,take responsibility for the lies,not call them little mistakes.

[bonnie]

Three political reasons led to Obama’s capitulation yesterday

POSTED AT 10:01 AM ON NOVEMBER 15, 2013 BY BRUCE MCQUAIN

Three primarily political reasons drove the Obama concession yesterday to allow insurance companies to continue to cover customers whose plans don’t meet ObamaCare standards. And none really had anything to do with doing what was right for the citizenry. He wasn’t really doing anyone any favors except Democrats. He was, as usual, focused solely on limiting political damage.

One reason that drove the concession was the usual – an attempt to start shifting the blame. As Megan McArdle points out:

This may be a near-perfect specimen of that Washington perennial: the nonsolution solution. Insurers are already warning that they can’t simply allow people to stay on their old plans, firstly because all plans have to be approved by state insurers who haven’t signed onto this, and secondly because getting their computer systems to reissue the canceled policies is a hefty programming task that may not be possible to complete by the end of the year. But that’s not the administration’s problem, is it? They can say, “Hey, we changed the rule — if your insurer went ahead and canceled your policy anyway, that’s not our fault!”

Blame shifting is as natural to this administration as breathing is to the rest of us. While they take more heat, they can now pass some of it off to insurers who were simply following the law as the Democrats and the administration had written it. Now they’re the bad guys. As you might imagine, the insurance industry is furious. And insurance regulators? Well, they’re left wondering what is what.

Reason number two for the concession was Congressional Democrat panic. Karl Rove has some thoughts on that:

Mr. Obama’s assertion in the NBC interview that “the majority of folks” whose coverage is canceled will “be able to get better care at the same cost or cheaper” is also likely to be false. The higher premiums that result from ObamaCare’s bells-and-whistles coverage mandates may be offset for some by subsidies, but most people will pay more.

This problem will get worse and poses a dilemma for Mr. Obama and Democrats. A March analysis by Healthpocket.com estimated that less than 2% of individual plans comply with ObamaCare’s mandates. A Nov. 7 study by McClatchy Newspapers suggests as many as 52 million people, including many covered by their employers, could lose their plan.

As the 2014 election approaches, these people will be (a) losing coverage or have lost it already, ( shopping for new policies, © suffering sticker shock over higher premiums and deductibles and (d) wondering why Mr. Obama called their previous policy with doctors they liked “subpar.” Then, next September and October, they’ll be told about premium increases for 2015.

Democrats know this, and that is why they’re pushing so hard for a delay in these cancellations. They’re really not so much interested in a “fix” as they are in enough time to avoid the consequences of the law in 2014. So they’re very willing to grab this totally short-term political “solution” by kicking the can down the road in order to weather the 2014 midterms. By the time this rears its ugly head again in full, they’re hoping the elections will be over.

Again, this isn’t about people losing coverage. This is about Democrats losing office.

And finally the third reason was a real need to get out in front of the Upton bill in the House. Kimberley Strassel covers that:

The primary purpose of the White House “fix” was to get out ahead of the planned Friday vote on Michigan Republican Fred Upton’s “Keep Your Health Plan Act.” The stage was set for dozens of Democrats to join with the GOP for passage—potentially creating a veto-proof majority, and putting enormous pressure on Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid to follow suit.

The White House couldn’t risk such a bipartisan rebuke. Moreover, the Upton bill—while it lacks those GOP joy words of “delay” or “repeal”—poses a threat, since it would allow insurers to continue providing non-ObamaCare policies to any American who wants one. Democratic Sen. Mary Landrieu‘s version of the bill would in fact (unconstitutionally) order insurers to offer the plans in perpetuity. Both bills undermine the law’s central goal of forcing healthy people into costly ObamaCare exchange plans that subsidize the sick.

The president’s “fix” is designed to limit such grandfathering, but that’s why it is of dubious political help to Democrats. Within minutes of Mr. Obama’s announcement, several Democratic senators, including North Carolina’s Kay Hagan —whose poll numbers have plummeted in advance of her 2014 re-election bid—announced that they remain in favor of Landrieu-style legislation.

But it’s not going to happen. Obama has already said he’d veto the Upton legislation. There’s a message there for Mary Landrieu as well.

This was all about Barack Obama, as usual. It is a result of raw political calculation – his only seeming area of competence. He’s now managed a political solution which serves him about as well as any solution can in the mess he and his administration have made of this atrocious law. He’s found someone else to shift the blame too, he’s quieted Democrats, at least for the moment and he’s politically pre-empted a GOP move that would have seriously damaged his signature legislation and dumped his leadership and credibility ratings even lower.

For him, this is about as good as it gets.

[lazarus]

In some countries every citizen has medical insurance paid for by the national taxes, just like your police and highways. That way all are treated alike.

Yup. Most countries that have it wouldn't go back. Hopefully that is where the US is headed.