The Full Moon Evidence

[Samie]

How silly can you get, Samie?!

Sillier you can't so you resort to arrogance:

You seemed to have misunderstood my post, Gerhard.

Read it again, brother, but read it fully and slowly this time with the intent of understanding what Samie had actually meant in his post. Then you will see that Samie, as always and will always be, does not believe Christ does not have to be resurrected Sunday just because He is firstfruits from the dead. Like you, brother, I too believe in a Saturday resurrection. Our only difference is I believe it was early Saturday morning.

In Christ,

Samie

[Samie]

First, there is NO <<Passover Law>> that says the passover had to be eaten <<the night the moon was full>>.

It is your, sucked from your thumb, <Law>.

[Samie]

No contradiction, Gerhard. Scriptures do not say that the waving of the sheaf would have to be done in its appointed season other than it had to be on a Sunday, unlike in the case of Passover which can fall on any weekday but always on a full moon, its appointed season.

[Ron Amnsn]

If you are going to change the meaning of the word Sabbath to mean one week, then that would be quite a novel interpretation indeed.

The Orthodox Jews interpret the word "Sabbath" in this verse to mean one week, although I believe they are wrong in that interpretation. Thus the Orthodox Jews always celebrate Shavuot (Pentecost) on the same day of their calculated lunar month, which falls on various days of the week (not always on Sunday).

I believe the Karaite Jews interpret the passage correctly in context, taking "Sabbath" to mean the seventh-day Sabbath that concludes each seven-day week. Thus the Karaite Jews celebrate Shavuot on various days of the lunar month, but always on the first day of the week (Sunday), seven weeks plus a day after starting with the day of the wave sheaf, which also falls always on the first day of the week.

[Ron Amnsn]

Do you believe Jesus ate Passover on a non-full moon night, and so violated the Law He said He came to fulfill?

Samie, God's Law of Moses does not say that Passover was to be eaten on a full moon night.

The passover was to be eaten in the evening after the 14th day of the month. The month begins at new moon, which is when the first sliver of the moon is sighted after sunset, but before the moon sets about an hour later. The evening that first sliver of moon is sighted marks the beginning of the first day of the month. If the sky is overcast in Israel so that the new moon cannot be sighted, the first day of the month starts after the 30th day of the previous month.

The modern astronomical "new moon" comes at the time of "no moon", which is not the biblical new moon. The astronomical new moon is calculated as conjunction (when the moon is closest to the sun in the sky). There is no moon visible in the sky on the night of the astronomical "new moon". The biblical new moon comes at least a day after the astronomical "new moon".

So the biblical Passover, as celebrated by the Jews at the time of Jesus, and as currently celebrated by the Karaite Jews, comes 15 days or more after the astronomical "new moon", and at least a day after the night of the fullest moon.

[Ron Amnsn]

Looks like, among other false doctrine, Samie also believes the feasts are binding today.

Whew, these winds of doctrine just never stop blowing.

The word of God is not a "wind of doctrine". The "wind" you speak of would be the man-made doctrine that says the Word of God has become obsolete.

[Samie]

Originally Posted By: Samie

Do you believe Jesus ate Passover on a non-full moon night, and so violated the Law He said He came to fulfill?

Samie, God's Law of Moses does not say that Passover was to be eaten on a full moon night.

The passover was to be eaten in the evening after the 14th day of the month. The month begins at new moon, which is when the first sliver of the moon is sighted after sunset, but before the moon sets about an hour later. The evening that first sliver of moon is sighted marks the beginning of the first day of the month. If the sky is overcast in Israel so that the new moon cannot be sighted, the first day of the month starts after the 30th day of the previous month.

The modern astronomical "new moon" comes at the time of "no moon", which is not the biblical new moon. The astronomical new moon is calculated as conjunction (when the moon is closest to the sun in the sky). There is no moon visible in the sky on the night of the astronomical "new moon". The biblical new moon comes at least a day after the astronomical "new moon".

So the biblical Passover, as celebrated by the Jews at the time of Jesus, and as currently celebrated by the Karaite Jews, comes 15 days or more after the astronomical "new moon", and at least a day after the night of the fullest moon.

Bro Ron, pls read Ps 81 again. Tnx.

[Samie]

Originally Posted By: Samie

Do you believe Jesus ate Passover on a non-full moon night, and so violated the Law He said He came to fulfill?

Samie, God's Law of Moses does not say that Passover was to be eaten on a full moon night.

The passover was to be eaten in the evening after the 14th day of the month. The month begins at new moon, which is when the first sliver of the moon is sighted after sunset, but before the moon sets about an hour later. The evening that first sliver of moon is sighted marks the beginning of the first day of the month. If the sky is overcast in Israel so that the new moon cannot be sighted, the first day of the month starts after the 30th day of the previous month.

The modern astronomical "new moon" comes at the time of "no moon", which is not the biblical new moon. The astronomical new moon is calculated as conjunction (when the moon is closest to the sun in the sky). There is no moon visible in the sky on the night of the astronomical "new moon". The biblical new moon comes at least a day after the astronomical "new moon".

So the biblical Passover, as celebrated by the Jews at the time of Jesus, and as currently celebrated by the Karaite Jews, comes 15 days or more after the astronomical "new moon", and at least a day after the night of the fullest moon.

[Samie]

Sorry, Bro Gerhard. But I was addressing it to Ron who seemed not to believe Passover is a Full Moon Feast. And thank you for letting me know you now believe it, too.

[Ron Amnsn]

Bro Ron, pls read Ps 81 again. Tnx.

[Ron Amnsn]

Originally Posted By: Ron Amnsn

The Orthodox Jews interpret the word "Sabbath" in this verse to mean one week, although I believe they are wrong in that interpretation. Thus the Orthodox Jews always celebrate Shavuot (Pentecost) on the same day of their calculated lunar month, which falls on various days of the week (not always on Sunday).

I believe the Karaite Jews interpret the passage correctly in context, taking "Sabbath" to mean the seventh-day Sabbath that concludes each seven-day week. Thus the Karaite Jews celebrate Shavuot on various days of the lunar month, but always on the first day of the week (Sunday), seven weeks plus a day after starting with the day of the wave sheaf, which also falls always on the first day of the week.

Thanks. A post both clear in its clarity and convoluted in its confusion or confused in its convolution.

Just look at the last sentence:

<<the day of the wave sheaf, which also falls always on the first day of the week>>.

Now look at this sentence:

<<Shavuot (Pentecost) … which falls on various days of the week (not always on Sunday).>>

... and so we could go on, chasing our own tails or like the jackal Samson sent into the corn fields, have our tails set on fire, chasing us.

Gerhard, I presented the opposing views of two different Jewish sects. You quote a phrase from each, showing that the two sects do indeed contradict each other. If you would read more carefully, perhaps your unnecessary mockery would not fall on your own head. If you would read more carefully it would help people have more confidence in your understanding of the Scriptures.

[Gibs]

One thing we all can be very sure of, that is Jesus and His disciples and the Jews with them sure kept Passover on a true full moon. They started the "MOONTH" exactly on time and so the moon had become totally full. Our calendar months are not reckoned by the knowing of exactly when a new moon occurs.

On many an occasion many of the Jews started the MOONTH too late! This was the case at that time of Jesus Christ's crucifiction!

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[Samie]

The Jews kept Passover in 31 AD a day late, but Jesus and His disciples kept it right on time the night before: on a full moon night, Tuesday March 27, 31 AD. He was crucified Wednesday March 28, the preparation day of Passover (John 19:14). The Jews then ate Passover Wednesday night. Thursday March 29 was Passover Sabbath of the Jews, a ceremonial Sabbath.

In Christ,

Samie

[Samie]

Originally Posted By: Gibs

One thing we all can be very sure of, that is Jesus and His disciples and the Jews with them sure kept Passover on a true full moon. They started the "MOONTH" exactly on time and so the moon had become totally full. Our calendar months are not reckoned by the knowing of exactly when a new moon occurs.

On many an occasion many of the Jews started the MOONTH too late! This was the case at that time of Jesus Christ's crucifiction!

Even if it were so ---I do not think it was because Jesus was the true Passover Lamb of God and would have fulfilled only the correct and true dates and days of the true Passover of Yahweh --- but, even it were as you say, IT WOULD NOT CHANGE THE CLEAR GIVEN ABOUT ON WHICH DAYS OF THE WEEK EVERY EVENT TOOK PLACE--"according to the Scriptures".

Jesus, the true Passover Lamb, died on the true Passover Sabbath and resurrected on the weekly Sabbath.

Tuesday March 27, 31 AD, Full Moon, Christ ate Passover in its proper season. He was crucified Wednesday March 28, the true Passover Sabbath. For the Jews, March 28 was Preparation Day of Passover and Thursday March 29 was their Passover Sabbath when there was nothing sold and therefore nothing to buy in the marketplace. Friday March 30 was when the women bought and prepared spices and ointments. March 31 early morning of the weekly Sabbath, which Mark calls the chief Sabbath (Mark 16:9) of the 3 Sabbaths that paschal week, our Lord rose from the grave, exactly 3 days and 3 nights from crucifixion to resurrection.

This is why Matthew spoke about plural "sabbatwn" that had ended prior to Christ's resurrection: the true Passover Sabbath (Wednesday March 28) and the Passover Sabbath of the Jews (March 29).

In Christ,

Samie

[Gibs]

Scripture denies your thesis Samie,

Mr 16:9 ¶ Now when Jesus was risen early the first day of the week, he appeared first to Mary Magdalene, out of whom he had cast seven devils.

Then we have this account that solidifies it was the first day of the week,

Joh 20:16 Jesus saith unto her, Mary. She turned herself, and saith unto him, Rabboni; which is to say, Master.

Joh 20:17 Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.

Joh 20:18 Mary Magdalene came and told the disciples that she had seen the Lord, and that he had spoken these things unto her.

Joh 20:19 ¶ Then the same day at evening, being the first day of the week, when the doors were shut where the disciples were assembled for fear of the Jews, came Jesus and stood in the midst, and saith unto them, Peace be unto you.

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[Samie]

Mark 16:9 in the original tongue says Christ rose on "proi prote sabbatou": proi = early morning; prote from protos = first in rank, chief; and the genitive "sabbatou" refers to the Sabbath and NEVER to week in the Old Testament Greek, the Septuagint. The Greek Scriptures explicitly tells us Christ rose early morning of the chief Sabbath, Saturday.

There is no other verse in the whole of Scriptures that say when Christ rose from the grave. Only in Mark 16:9. But in order to perhaps give a semblance of Scriptural authority to Sunday-keeping, the genitive "sabbatou" was made to refer to "week" by translators who were themselves Sunday-keepers. And the world believed.

In Christ,

Samie

[Samie]

Quote:

KJV Acts 16:12 And from thence to Philippi, which is the chief city of that part of Macedonia, and a colony: and we were in that city abiding certain days. {the chief: or, the first}

"chief" is translated from "prote" in the above verse

Friberg Lexicon:

Quote:

prote - adjective ordinal dative feminine singular no degree from protos

I. adjectivally first of several; (1) of time; (a) in comparison of past and present earlier, first, former ( in antithesis between the beginning and the end first, before anything else, opposite eschatos (last, final); (2) of rank and value first (of all), foremost, chief, most important of all; (a) of things ( substantivally, of persons oi`protoi the leading men, the most important persons (3) of number or sequence first

I'd rather believe Scriptures and in the scholarship of Timothy & Barbara Friberg than in the pretensions and foul language of somebody in this forum.

"proi prote sabbatou" in Mark 16:9 is better translated as "early morning of the chief Sabbath".

In Christ,

Samie

[Samie]

...

Quote: “of rank and value first (of all), foremost, chief, most important of all”.

‘ON the chief sabbath’ is ‘ON’ it, Samie.

Or is it Mark’s scholarship or lack of scholarship that made him tousle Greek grammar having used a Genitive in ‘sabbatou’ instead of the—normal, correct and required—Dative like in ‘miai hehmerai?

...

As I have pointed out in the other thread, the GVB Bible - Gerhard Version of the Bible - proves Gerhard is correct.

He even has the temerity to challenge the scholarship of a gospel writer, Mark, accusing Mark of messing up with the Koine Greek in Mark 16:9, as if Gerhard was born with Koine Greek in his tongue and knows Koine Greek better than Mark. Just because Mark in that Greek verse reports Christ resurrected early Saturday morning, and Gerhard believes otherwise.

Higher than the heavens can pretensions sometimes go. But watch out when if falls.

In Christ,

Samie