OzarkWoman Posted December 6, 2013 Posted December 6, 2013 Every time someone disagrees with the opinion of some posters here,the old fall back is hate. You noticed that also?! Yep, they can't seem to help themselves. Oh well, if we disagree with Obama we are racist and if we disagree with the politics of Mandela then we are full of hate. I believe that the ones who bring this up are the ones full of hate. Quote
LifeHiscost Posted December 6, 2013 Posted December 6, 2013 Quote: Reminds me of some Biblical characters, Moses-Murderer, but still went to heaven, David-wife steling murderer, but a man after Gods own heart. It's good to remind ourselves that God saves us despite what we are, however He doesn't save the person wishing to cling to their old man of sin. Remember Lot's wife. "Remember what happened to Lot’s wife! If you cling to your life, you will lose it, and if you let your life go, you will save it."Luke 17:32 NLT God cares! Jesus saves! Quote Lift Jesus up!!
Members phkrause Posted December 6, 2013 Members Posted December 6, 2013 Yes I noticed that too, very sad indeed Quote phkrause When the righteous are in authority, the people rejoice; But when a wicked man rules, the people groan. Proverbs 29;2
Moderators lazarus Posted December 6, 2013 Author Moderators Posted December 6, 2013 Every time someone disagrees with the opinion of some posters here,the old fall back is hate. My post was about what I've seen in the conservative media but you can own it if you like. Quote Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocrities. The latter cannot understand it when a man does not thoughtlessly submit to hereditary prejudices but honestly and courageously uses his intelligence. Einstein
OzarkWoman Posted December 7, 2013 Posted December 7, 2013 Originally Posted By: bonnie Every time someone disagrees with the opinion of some posters here,the old fall back is hate. My post was about what I've seen in the conservative media but you can own it if you like. Uh huh?!!!! Quote
Administrators Tom Wetmore Posted December 7, 2013 Administrators Posted December 7, 2013 How about a refresher on just what Laz is referring to… http://thinkprogress.org/home/2013/12/06/3029871/wing-timeline-mandela/ Quote "Absurdity reigns and confusion makes it look good." "Sinless perfection is such a shallow goal." "I love God only as much as the person I love the least." *Forgiveness is always good news. And that is the gospel truth. (And finally, the ideas expressed above are solely my person views and not that of any organization with which I am associated.)
bonnie Posted December 7, 2013 Posted December 7, 2013 How about a refresher on just what Laz is referring to… http://thinkprogress.org/home/2013/12/06/3029871/wing-timeline-mandela/ There is more than one "refresher course" on Mandela. Not necessarily is either one completely correct because of your own personal views. Saint Mendela ,Not So Fast http://www.thenewamerican.com/world-news/africa/item/15888-saint-mandela-not-so-fast Quote Everything you do is based on the choices you make. It's not your parents, your past relationships, your job, the economy, the weather, an argument, or your age that is to blame. You and only you are responsible for every decision and choice you make, period ... ... Wish more people would realize this. Quotes by Susan Gottesman
Members phkrause Posted December 7, 2013 Members Posted December 7, 2013 Interesting article Quote phkrause When the righteous are in authority, the people rejoice; But when a wicked man rules, the people groan. Proverbs 29;2
Administrators Tom Wetmore Posted December 7, 2013 Administrators Posted December 7, 2013 Yes Bonnie, the source of the article you linked to simply confirms the point of the article I posted and the point I have been trying to make. Quote "Absurdity reigns and confusion makes it look good." "Sinless perfection is such a shallow goal." "I love God only as much as the person I love the least." *Forgiveness is always good news. And that is the gospel truth. (And finally, the ideas expressed above are solely my person views and not that of any organization with which I am associated.)
CoAspen Posted December 7, 2013 Posted December 7, 2013 I see no one trying to make him a saint. He is simply being seen as someone who made a great impact on the world around him and recognized for his accomplishments, much like we do King David, Moses, and others of the Bible. All very sinful humans. Is that too much to ask or expect? Or are we hung up on humans failings.....as an excuse? Quote
Members phkrause Posted December 7, 2013 Members Posted December 7, 2013 Nothing new here, all things that were know by many. The biggest thing I see is a man that had convictions of one kind, went to prison, and came out a better man. Turned hatred around between white and black, making SA a better place for it. The other two people that this article speaks of, went into prison and came out having a better relationship with God. Did they change things in there respective countries as Mandela? I can't say! The reason I see that Mandela gets more air time, is because he was so critisized by so called "righeous" people, that now the media is showing how someone can turn there life around and do so much good, instead of evil. Quote phkrause When the righteous are in authority, the people rejoice; But when a wicked man rules, the people groan. Proverbs 29;2
Members phkrause Posted December 7, 2013 Members Posted December 7, 2013 I see no one trying to make him a saint. He is simply being seen as someone who made a great impact on the world around him and recognized for his accomplishments, much like we do King David, Moses, and others of the Bible. All very sinful humans. Is that too much to ask or expect? Or are we hung up on humans failings.....as an excuse? Quote phkrause When the righteous are in authority, the people rejoice; But when a wicked man rules, the people groan. Proverbs 29;2
CoAspen Posted December 7, 2013 Posted December 7, 2013 The New American www.thenewamerican.com/‎ Magazine of the John Birch Society Simply supporting its own ideology of the past! Quote
M. T. Cross Posted December 7, 2013 Posted December 7, 2013 Awe, how sweet, another thread just chock full of that famous Christian love. Quote
CoAspen Posted December 7, 2013 Posted December 7, 2013 Haven't you heard, only christians have the right to point fingers at others possible mistakes!! Quote
bonnie Posted December 7, 2013 Posted December 7, 2013 Yes Bonnie, the source of the article you linked to simply confirms the point of the article I posted and the point I have been trying to make. I don't know who this man really was. Is he as he is now portrayed? Possibly. It is a fact he did or was responsible for terrorist acts and people being killed.Did he regret that and show remorse for doing that? So far all I have found is some generic statements against violence. Perhaps I have missed it,but without that and a very heartfelt apology to the families of the people that died as a result of his actions,I will reserve an opinion either way. I have a difficult time accepting wholeheartedly someone's change of heart without that. If I am responsible for the death of your family and simply say,Now I have changed,it wouldn't mean much. HIs praise of brutal dictators leaves a bad taste as well.If I surround myself with a certain element,it should not surprise me if I am lumped in with that element. Did he change and was he what he presented himself to be? I don't know and neither does anyone here. Quote Everything you do is based on the choices you make. It's not your parents, your past relationships, your job, the economy, the weather, an argument, or your age that is to blame. You and only you are responsible for every decision and choice you make, period ... ... Wish more people would realize this. Quotes by Susan Gottesman
Administrators Tom Wetmore Posted December 7, 2013 Administrators Posted December 7, 2013 At one point concerning the accusations of him being a communist he responded to the somewhat lesser of being used by the communists by asking why not consider that he was using the communists to further his goal. Much of it comes down to perspective of a complicated man that charted his own course regardless of the opinions of others. He teamed up with some unsavory types as allies in a fight against a common enemy. Those who helped in the dismantling of apartheid were his friends even if they might be the enemies of other friends or ven former enemies of his. Quote "Absurdity reigns and confusion makes it look good." "Sinless perfection is such a shallow goal." "I love God only as much as the person I love the least." *Forgiveness is always good news. And that is the gospel truth. (And finally, the ideas expressed above are solely my person views and not that of any organization with which I am associated.)
bonnie Posted December 7, 2013 Posted December 7, 2013 At one point concerning the accusations of him being a communist he responded to the somewhat lesser of being used by the communists by asking why not consider that he was using the communists to further his goal. Much of it comes down to perspective of a complicated man that charted his own course regardless of the opinions of others. He teamed up with some unsavory types as allies in a fight against a common enemy. Those who helped in the dismantling of apartheid were his friends even if they might be the enemies of other friends or ven former enemies of his. This is the way you perceive what is known about him. No problem. Not everyone does.If many don't see it as you do,they are entitled to their opinion without your condemnation just as you are. I became interested in Mandela because of co-workers that were from S.Africa. They had a much different opinion on Mandela than you do. Are they less than you or wrong because of the opinions formed based on their knowledge from living there? Personally,I don't think so. Are they less christian than those of you here that question the christianity of those that disagree with you? Quote Everything you do is based on the choices you make. It's not your parents, your past relationships, your job, the economy, the weather, an argument, or your age that is to blame. You and only you are responsible for every decision and choice you make, period ... ... Wish more people would realize this. Quotes by Susan Gottesman
Moderators lazarus Posted December 8, 2013 Author Moderators Posted December 8, 2013 I became interested in Mandela because of co-workers that were from S.Africa. They had a much different opinion on Mandela than you do. LOL, that's is hardly surprising. To many he was the enemy and a killer. To many in the white minority in SA he was a threat to the brutal system they had constructed. Praise God he grew to the place that he did not harbor the same hatred that they had. Quote Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocrities. The latter cannot understand it when a man does not thoughtlessly submit to hereditary prejudices but honestly and courageously uses his intelligence. Einstein
OzarkWoman Posted December 8, 2013 Posted December 8, 2013 Originally Posted By: bonnie I became interested in Mandela because of co-workers that were from S.Africa. They had a much different opinion on Mandela than you do. LOL, that's is hardly surprising. To many he was the enemy and a killer. To many in the white minority in SA he was a threat to the brutal system they had constructed. Praise God he grew to the place that he did not harbor the same hatred that they had. And you know that they all had hatred?! How do you know this? Do you think Thomas Jefferson harbored hatred because he had slaves? You really have a hard time thinking out of the box and seeing things outside of your small world view. Quote
M. T. Cross Posted December 8, 2013 Posted December 8, 2013 I would think Jefferson harbored a contempt, possibly unknown to him, if he could justify "owning" another human being. Quote
Moderators lazarus Posted December 8, 2013 Author Moderators Posted December 8, 2013 And you know that they all had hatred?! . Didn't say they ALL. I used the word many. So what feelings do you think those who supported apartheid has towards black people? MT made a good start with contempt. What else? Quote Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocrities. The latter cannot understand it when a man does not thoughtlessly submit to hereditary prejudices but honestly and courageously uses his intelligence. Einstein
bonnie Posted December 8, 2013 Posted December 8, 2013 LOL, that's is hardly surprising. To many he was the enemy and a killer. To many in the white minority in SA he was a threat to the brutal system they had constructed. Praise God he grew to the place that he did not harbor the same hatred that they had. Actually it was surprising to me. They were not white,but black and didn't have much good to say about him. Does your opinion make theirs less valid,especially living there? Do you assume they had hatred in their hearts? Quote Everything you do is based on the choices you make. It's not your parents, your past relationships, your job, the economy, the weather, an argument, or your age that is to blame. You and only you are responsible for every decision and choice you make, period ... ... Wish more people would realize this. Quotes by Susan Gottesman
ClubV12 Posted December 8, 2013 Posted December 8, 2013 Nicodemus was a Pharisee and a member of the Sanhedrin. He to was using that position for,,, uh, personal gain and was a bad man? It could be said. Or it could be said he was using that position to further the cause of truth. Politics, war, civil opposition, a messy business. Quote
Moderators lazarus Posted December 8, 2013 Author Moderators Posted December 8, 2013 Actually it was surprising to me. They were not white,but black and didn't have much good to say about him. Do expect all black to like Mendela? There is diversity of opinion in the black community too. Quote Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocrities. The latter cannot understand it when a man does not thoughtlessly submit to hereditary prejudices but honestly and courageously uses his intelligence. Einstein
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