Thou Shalt Not Covet.True?

[bonnie]

http://ace.mu.nu/

Thou shalt not covet..."In 2012 the CEO of Walmart made $20.7 million. Walmart has about 2 million employees (as far as I can tell, this is only counting the employees in the American stores). So, if you divided the CEO's entire pay among the employees they'd each get $10.35 more per year- that's not quite 20 cents per week; a half a cent per hour for full time employees. Woohoo.

Now, look at a paystub and see how much the various governments' steal from every paycheck, and then tell me who the real parasite is."

[bonnie]

I was more intrigued about the Wal-Mart information. Government will always be on the take.

[Tom Wetmore]

While it does show the extreme disparity between executive compensation and the average worker, the real figure to show the availability of cash on hand for Walmart to better compensate its employees is not the CEO's salary but rather the overall net profits of Walmart. For 2012 Walmart's net profits were over $16 billion. Now divide that figure by the 2 million employees and they would get $8000 more for the year. That would translate to an increase of about a $4/hour increase. OK, so as not to leave the shareholders out in the cold, just take half the profits and give the employees a profit sharing bonus of $2000.

No need for anyone to covet. Just reward the ones that do the work for making it a profitable year.

[Gregory Matthews]

20.7 million. It looks to me like he is clearly not at the high end of the pay scale.

[bonnie]

While it does show the extreme disparity between executive compensation and the average worker, the real figure to show the availability of cash on hand for Walmart to better compensate its employees is not the CEO's salary but rather the overall net profits of Walmart. For 2012 Walmart's net profits were over $16 billion. Now divide that figure by the 2 million employees and they would get $8000 more for the year. That would translate to an increase of about a $4/hour increase. OK, so as not to leave the shareholders out in the cold, just take half the profits and give the employees a profit sharing bonus of $2000.

No need for anyone to covet. Just reward the ones that do the work for making it a profitable year.

What dollar amount should a business like Wal-Mart be allowed to have on hand? There should be extreme disparity between executive compensation and the non-skilled,non college entry level positions pay?

[Tom Wetmore]

The answer to your first question is, "It depends." There are a lot of factors to account for. The $16 billion figure is not cash on hand, but the net profits from just one year. That is gross revenue minus all expenses. Walmart, like most large business enterprises have been building reserves over the past 5-10 years or more, in part because of perceived economic uncertainty. They have been essentially banking a large part of their profits. (The cash reserves of corporate America runs into the trillions, an amount approximately equal to the national debt.). So very likely, Walmart has significant reserves well beyond the posted profits for 2012. Taking a significant chunk of annual profits to increase worker wages would not compromise Walmart's finances.

As for the extreme disparity between executive comp and working class wages (including the middle class), I not sure if you are questioning that or not. Over the last several decades wages of low to middle class, the average American work earring class, have remained flat. In actual purchasing power, taking in true cost of living (not just CPI) wages have effectively declined. During the same period, executive comp has increased by double digits, and at the highest levels, some even by triple digits, percentage-wise. The hard economic times have not been a hardship to the upper class. So much for trickle down economics.

What difference is appropriate? Who knows. But the trend of the last several decades does seem a bit much.

[Gerr]

I have read that Walmart does not pay their employees very well, and that not a few of them are on medical/medicaid because of the poor pay. Considering how much Walmart rakes in, that seems unconscionable to me. In some ways, I resonate with the pope's economic message.

[lazarus]

There is something obscene about $11,000/ hour (Walmart CEO's pay) v $7.25/hour

@ $7.25/hour

30 hours = $217

1 month =$868

1 year =$10416

1 year worker pay = 1 hour CEO pay

[bonnie]

The answer to your first question is, "It depends." There are a lot of factors to account for. The $16 billion figure is not cash on hand, but the net profits from just one year. That is gross revenue minus all expenses.

[Bravus]

Why pick 'thou shalt not covet' rather than, say, something about Zaccheus, or rich men, heaven, camels and needles?

Using Scripture to back up the very kinds of abuses that Scripture roundly denounces throughout is a dangerous game.

[Bravus]

Luke 12

13 Someone in the crowd said to him, “Teacher, tell my brother to divide the inheritance with me.”

14 Jesus replied, “Man, who appointed me a judge or an arbiter between you?” 15 Then he said to them, “Watch out! Be on your guard against all kinds of greed; life does not consist in an abundance of possessions.”

16 And he told them this parable: “The ground of a certain rich man yielded an abundant harvest. 17 He thought to himself, ‘What shall I do? I have no place to store my crops.’

18 “Then he said, ‘This is what I’ll do. I will tear down my barns and build bigger ones, and there I will store my surplus grain. 19 And I’ll say to myself, “You have plenty of grain laid up for many years. Take life easy; eat, drink and be merry.” ’

20 “But God said to him, ‘You fool! This very night your life will be demanded from you. Then who will get what you have prepared for yourself?’

21 “This is how it will be with whoever stores up things for themselves but is not rich toward God.”

[Bravus]

Want to condemn Jesus' covetousness?

[bonnie]

Why pick 'thou shalt not covet' rather than, say, something about Zaccheus, or rich men, heaven, camels and needles?

Using Scripture to back up the very kinds of abuses that Scripture roundly denounces throughout is a dangerous game.

I did not pick the title. I did add the "True" and the question mark

[bonnie]

Luke 12

13 Someone in the crowd said to him, “Teacher, tell my brother to divide the inheritance with me.”

14 Jesus replied, “Man, who appointed me a judge or an arbiter between you?” 15 Then he said to them, “Watch out! Be on your guard against all kinds of greed; life does not consist in an abundance of possessions.”

16 And he told them this parable: “The ground of a certain rich man yielded an abundant harvest. 17 He thought to himself, ‘What shall I do? I have no place to store my crops.’

18 “Then he said, ‘This is what I’ll do. I will tear down my barns and build bigger ones, and there I will store my surplus grain. 19 And I’ll say to myself, “You have plenty of grain laid up for many years. Take life easy; eat, drink and be merry.” ’

While don't disagree with any of the above,I take it that God is speaking to each of us individually.

20 “But God said to him, ‘You fool! This very night your life will be demanded from you. Then who will get what you have prepared for yourself?’

21 “This is how it will be with whoever stores up things for themselves but is not rich toward God.”

While don't disagree with any of the above,I take it that God is speaking to each of us individually.As I don't have the slightest control over how anyone handles their finances,nor do I have the right to demand they give me a portion of what is their's in this world,I think it is safest to take this to heart personally.Not decide from this how you should live

Do you do as much as you should or are capable of doing? Not my business.If you have an abundance while there are those around you going hungry,how is that any different than Wal-Mart?

Again,that really isn't any of my business. I am only responsible for how I use my time and finances.

[Bravus]

But you feel able to condemn those who seek to relieve the plight of the poorest by advocating that they receive a living wage?

You want people to work their way out of poverty, but at the same time advocate for a wage level that keeps them in poverty even if they work every humanly possible hour?

Do you not see the internal contradictions of the position?

[phkrause]

But you feel able to condemn those who seek to relieve the plight of the poorest by advocating that they receive a living wage?

You want people to work their way out of poverty, but at the same time advocate for a wage level that keeps them in poverty even if they work every humanly possible hour?

Do you not see the internal contradictions of the position?

[bonnie]

But you feel able to condemn those who seek to relieve the plight of the poorest by advocating that they receive a living wage?

You want people to work their way out of poverty, but at the same time advocate for a wage level that keeps them in poverty even if they work every humanly possible hour?

Do you not see the internal contradictions of the position?

I didn't condemn anyone. Advocating that Wal-Mart,MacDomald's etc pay a living wage for non skilled employee's is unrealistic.

Entry level was never designed to support a family,never promised such. Wages would have to be at a minimum 15.00,more realistically 20.00 an hour full time to support a family.

It is not up to the employer to improve your situation.That is in your hands alone. Obstacles can be put in your way,but you still have to climb over them if you want a skill or education that pays more than entry level wage.

If sales associates are paid 15-20.00,what then are those above them in position and responsibility paid? Each Wal-Mart store sinks or swims on it's own.If it can't make a go of it in a certain area,many employee's lose their jobs. We have three super Wal-Marts within a 20 mile radius. This area would have been far worse off without them.

The yearly income of those that have gone to a extreme amount of expense to own a MacDonald franchise is roughly 150,000.00

They have to come up with roughly 300,000 of unborrowed funds to begin.

They are responsible for the salaries of those that work for them. How much of this 150,000.00 yearly income should go to paying 15.00 an hour to unskilled labor?

How much would prices have to be raised to compensate? If prices rise that usually limits those that purchase there.

No one insists that once you begin an entry level job you must stay there to support your family.

Nor are we promised in this life that those that pay you a salary are responsible for the decisions you make to better your life.

Unless something in life comes along and blindsides you with illness or injury there is little excuse in this country to stay at entry level and then whine that no one will come along and lift you out.

A co-worker of my husband's fell,a very short distance of 12 feet and ended up paralyzed from the neck down. A young man of 32. He could have remained on welfare and I doubt anyone would have blamed him. He chose not to. Became a CPA and is financially independent.With all the obstacles he and thousands like him overcome all the time,there is little excuse for a able bodied adult to stay in his entry level life

[LifeHiscost]

I feel somewhat empathetic toward those who are sure their capabilities and wisdom are responsible for where they are, and when the fruit of their labors flourishes, cannot see beyond their own strength to give encouragement to another who might hope for similar results. It will be especially difficult for them to cast their crowns at the feet of Jesus, since it is He Who has been responsible for all their successes, and they will have had no practice bowing before anyone God sent in their path, in love, to aid them along the way.

"And when the living creatures give glory and honor and thanks to Him who sits on the throne, to Him who lives forever and ever, the twenty-four elders will fall down before Him who sits on the throne, and will worship Him who lives forever and ever, and will cast their crowns before the throne, saying,

“Worthy are You, our Lord and our God, to receive glory and honor and power; for You created all things, and because of Your will they existed, and were created.”"

Revelation 4:9-11 NASB

OTOH;

"At the end of the twelve months he was walking about the royal palace of Babylon. The king spoke, saying, “Is not this great Babylon, that I have built for a royal dwelling by my mighty power and for the honor of my majesty?”

While the word was still in the king’s mouth, a voice fell from heaven: “King Nebuchadnezzar, to you it is spoken: the kingdom has departed from you! And they shall drive you from men, and your dwelling shall be with the beasts of the field. They shall make you eat grass like oxen; and seven times shall pass over you, until you know that the Most High rules in the kingdom of men, and gives it to whomever He chooses.”"Daniel 4:29-32 NKJV

Of course there is always hope God has a pasture somewhere for such.

God saves! Jesus cares!

[bonnie]

I feel somewhat empathetic toward those who are sure their capabilities and wisdom are responsible for where they are, and when the fruit of their labors flourishes, cannot see beyond their own strength to give encouragement to another who might hope for similar results. It will be especially difficult for them to cast their crowns at the feet of Jesus, since it is He Who has been responsible for all their successes, and they will have had no practice bowing before anyone God sent in their path, in love, to aid them along the way.

Of course there is always hope God has a pasture somewhere for such.

God saves! Jesus cares!

You are making an assumption.

We are responsible to use our capabilities and wisdom.Unless you are willing to do that God is not going to do your part for you.

And are you in a position to know who gives encouragement to others. Hoping for similar results is considerably different than being as motivated as possible to find a way out of that entry level job you have. Do you have the wisdom or the knowledge to know who may "anyone God sent in their path, in love, to aid them along the way". I don't think you do

[LifeHiscost]

"“I am the vine, you are the branches. He who abides in Me, and I in him, bears much fruit; for without Me you can do nothing."John 15:5 NKJV

God cares! Jesus saves!

[bonnie]

"“I am the vine, you are the branches. He who abides in Me, and I in him, bears much fruit; for without Me you can do nothing."John 15:5 NKJV

God cares! Jesus saves!

WE have all been given different talents and capabilities. However God does not force us to either use them or use them for good. No one has denied the truth of the scripture you quoted. Yet this is how you respond,leaving your hands clean as to judging others.

None of this has anything to do with denying this.

What I do with what I have been given,for good or bad doesn't

excuse the next person from their personal responsibility to use

the talents given them. That includes the poor or those given the least.

There has always been the poor and always will be.That is not a reason to deny help. The last generation of poor seems to have been elevated to the status of sainthood.No responsibility for life choices that have placed many in the position they are in.

They keep singing the same song with different verses as they go."I can't","Give me","If the rich weren't rich,I wouldn't be poor".

Some for whatever reason simply can't and it is our responsibility to step in. Others need more encouragement and direction than others,but unless they take the steps,sometimes they may even be small steps, to use what God has given them,they will always remain exactly where they are,blaming everyone that has more for the little they have.

The parable of the "lazy servant" comes to mind.

Wal_mart or any other entry level position at 8.00 an hour doesn't have anything to do with my personal financial situation. Giving me 15.00 an hour without a willingness on my part to go the extra mile to better that and use my talents and capabilities to rise above entry level will ensure that I stay at entry level,always demanding that someone else do something so I can be better.

Poor is not the same as stupid and incapable."Entry level" means just that.It is the beginning of the ladder.Most can either make the decision to climb it or stay on the first rung.

It may be a tough climb and require utilizing fully the talents God has given you.

Some will go on to become wealthy,CEO's,employer's,others may only go from poor to lower middle class. Rising from the "poor" status has a lot to do with the motivation,determination and willing to use their God given talents to the max.

That is pretty well spelled out in

The Parable of the Talents

…25'And I was afraid, and went away and hid your talent in the ground. See, you have what is yours.' 26"But his master answered and said to him, 'You wicked, lazy slave, you knew that I reap where I did not sow and gather where I scattered no seed. 27Then you ought to have put my money in the bank, and on my arrival I would have received my money back with interest.…

Cross References

Matthew 21:8

A very large crowd spread their cloaks on the road, while others cut branches from the trees and spread them on the road.

Matthew 25:24

"Then the man who had received one bag of gold came. 'Master,' he said, 'I knew that you are a hard man, harvesting where you have not sown and gathering where you have not scattered seed.

Matthew 25:25

So I was afraid and went out and hid your gold in the ground. See, here is what belongs to you.'

Matthew 25:27

Well then, you should have put my money on deposit with the bankers, so that when I returned I would have received it back with interest.

[Gregory Matthews]

Quote:

"“I am the vine, you are the branches. He who abides in Me, and I in him, bears much fruit; for without Me you can do nothing."John 15:5 NKJV

While I am responding to a post made by LifeHiscost, my response is directed more generally at a number of people who post here.

Yes, there is value in quoting Scripture. Yes, the Holy Spirit may (?) be able to use such to convict people of God's will.

But, generally, Scripture must be applied in order to have any effect on a person. When there is no application of Scripture to one's life, there is little value.

I have no idea as to what LifeHiscost had in mind when he posted. We are not told. There is no application. It is meaningless to me without that additional bit, which was not supplied.

I do not understand how that quotation from Scripture had anything to do with the theme of this thread.

It is possible that if I were to go to the beginning of the thread and read carefully, again, every post, that I might come to understand how that post had some relationship to other posts in this thread.

But, I do not have time to do all of that for a person who chose not tell me more as to how that post could be applied to my life and its meaning in this thread.

I suspect that there are others reading these posts who are in the same situation as I am in.

[CoAspen]

Ah, quite often! But, that is life in the anon posting world.

[rudywoofs (Pam)]

the story Bonnie wrote about the man who was paralyzed and then got his CPA license, brings up a question I've always wondered about...

Do people with disabilities have more financial help from various places in order to further their education and become independent than those who have no [visible] disabilities? (just asking if anyone knows...I've not researched it)

[LifeHiscost]

"“I am the vine, you are the branches. He who abides in Me, and I in him, bears much fruit; for without Me you can do nothing."John 15:5 NKJV

For those who produce well with little or much fruit, here is the reason they need not covet what others have, or not.

".....for it is God who works in you both to will and to do for His good pleasure."Philippians 2:13 NKJV

And if one wants to boast of how much they have to reveal why they can be confident of the Master's approval, they have only this of which they can boast.

"But we are all like an unclean thing, And all our righteousnesses are like filthy rags; We all fade as a leaf, And our iniquities, like the wind, Have taken us away."Isaiah 64:6 NKJV

"As for me, may I never boast about anything except the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ. Because of that cross, my interest in this world has been crucified, and the world’s interest in me has also died."Gal 6:14 NLT

"So likewise you, when you have done all those things which you are commanded, say, ‘We are unprofitable servants. We have done what was our duty to do.’”"

Luke 17:10 NKJV

It is not a sin to covet. It is a sin to covet that which is your neighbor's.

"You shall not covet your neighbor’s house, your neighbor’s wife, or his manservant, or his maidservant, or his ox, or his donkey, or anything that is your neighbor’s."Exodus 20:17 AMP

How we think the Word applies depends much upon whether we believe God to be sovereign and whether we apply 1 Cor 13 AMP to our own lives.

God cares! Jesus saves!