ashes to ashes

[Anthony!]

I read this entire thread and I was actually amused. I felt like I was listening to a discussion of what would happen if the Star Wars universe met the Star Trek universe!

Many years ago, when I was attending evangelistic meetings as a secular person, I was privy to an intentionally humorous conversation between the evangelist (OK it was the late Arnold Scherencel) and the pastor who eventually baptized me. It was about the need of toilets in heaven.

I relayed and commented on this info quite innocently to a man who was a retired research scientist from Loma Linda. He was greatly respected in the local SDA church, and his theological knowledge was deep, as pastors sought him often for info to research.

His response was quick and authoritative: "Well, we should not enter into discussion on any subject which the Bible and Spirit of Prophecy are not clear on. This is theory and conjecture. Conjecture can lead us away from the Lord."

Huh? Well, needless to say, I let him have a large influence on me and I became a legalist like him.

But anyway, that should suit LifeHiscost pretty well...

[LifeHiscost]

Quote:

But anyway, that should suit LifeHiscost pretty well...

The seed sower often has to take the onus for how the seed develops.

"“Listen! A farmer went out to plant some seed. As he scattered it across his field, some of the seed fell on a footpath, and the birds came and ate it. Other seed fell on shallow soil with underlying rock. The seed sprouted quickly because the soil was shallow. But the plant soon wilted under the hot sun, and since it didn’t have deep roots, it died. Other seed fell among thorns that grew up and choked out the tender plants so they produced no grain. Still other seeds fell on fertile soil, and they sprouted, grew, and produced a crop that was thirty, sixty, and even a hundred times as much as had been planted!” Then he said, “Anyone with ears to hear should listen and understand.”"

Later, when Jesus was alone with the twelve disciples and with the others who were gathered around, they asked him what the parables meant.

He replied, “You are permitted to understand the secret of the Kingdom of God. But I use parables for everything I say to outsiders, so that the Scriptures might be fulfilled:

‘When they see what I do,

they will learn nothing.

When they hear what I say,

they will not understand.

Otherwise, they will turn to me

and be forgiven.’”Mark 4:3-14 NLT

God cares! Jesus saves!

[Yong T Tay]

Those who died in Christ, their dead bodies do not matter any more. It is a good thing that their bodies should decay and decomposed into dusts and ashes, because we do not want to continue in those sinful flesh bodies in the resurrection. We want a copy Christ's resurrected sinless body to be our new bodies at our resurrection at the second coming of Christ. That's mean we are really born again in Christ. We have Christ's genes in our bodies and we are literally Jesus Christ's Children. We become the begotten children of God through Christ and shall live with God and Christ through out eternity.

As for the unsaved, no matter how their dead bodies are being disposed, they will be resurrected with their former bodies or Adam's sinful flesh bodies(with Adam's genes) for the Great white throne judgment of their works and deeds. Rev 20:11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.

Rev 20:12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.

Rev 20:13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.

Rev 20:14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.

Here is an experience of Job. His faith, his confidence, his hope, his assurance and his certainty of his Redeemer and his resurrection. Job 19:25-27: "For I know that my redeemer liveth, and that he shall stand at the latter day upon the earth: and though after my skin worms destroy this body, yet in my flesh shall I see God: whom I shall see for myself, and mine eyes shall behold, and not another; though my reins be consumed within me." A remarkable confession, I say to you, especially since it was made long before the coming of Christ. A confession which has stood the test of time, so that the church and Christians throughout the ages echo it with hope and with joy. A Word of God which was spoken to declare the glorious truth of our bodily resurrection.

Clearly the text does not speak of seeing God immediately after death in the spirit. That truth is comforting enough. But remember, the child of God is saved body and soul. And he rejoices that in his flesh he shall see God.

Job says this beautifully as he contemplates the resurrection not only of his own body but that of his Redeemer. It is remarkable that he should speak of Christ, in verse 25, standing at the latter day upon the earth. Though my body is destroyed by worms, mutilated, corrupted in the grave, I shall see God. That is the hope of the final resurrection.

When Job writes this he clearly is speaking, first of all, of the destruction of this body. This is his present experience, of course. He has suddenly lost all of his possessions and all of his children in one day. Yet he was able, by the grace of God, to say as he did in Job 1:21, "Naked came I out of my mother's womb, and naked shall I return thither: the LORD gave, and the LORD hath taken away; blessed be the name of the LORD." But he himself now has been personally touched with painful disease of boils from head to toe and he is suffering greatly. Can you imagine that torment - not only physical, not only loss of all his possessions, and loved ones, but now his friends refuse to have anything to do with him. His own wife refuses to have anything to do with him. His closest friends turn away. And those friends who do stay accuse him of sin. "Job, all this has happened to you because of your sin. Repent or continue to face the wrath of God."

What does Job do? By faith, Job looks beyond his death at the hope of the final resurrection. Oh, yes, he is realistic about his death. He realizes that this, his body, will enter the grave and rot. Job knew that. He confessed that earlier. Job 14:1: "Man that is born of a woman is of few days, and full of trouble." And in verse 2 of that same chapter: "He cometh forth like a flower, and is cut down: he fleeth also as a shadow, and continueth not." Notice also in our text that Job is clearly talking about his death. Job 19:26: "And though after my skin worms destroy this body," he says. And again, in the last part of verse 27, "though my reins be consumed within me." Job faces squarely the horror of death, and the consequences of death, the rotting away of this body. He knows what the Word of God declared in Genesis 3:19, "For dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return." Yet, in spite of the reality of death, Job knew that he will see God. In fact, he emphasizes it this way, "Whom I shall see for myself and not another."

But, how can that be? Does not Job know that this present body must enter the grave? Yes, but he knows something else. He knows that which only the child of God knows by faith. He knows that his mighty Redeemer will one day come and more fully reveal the glorious promise that the dead shall rise again. On the one hand, he says, "I am going to die. This flesh is going to rot." But on the other hand, "In my flesh shall I see God."

Yongttay

[RonP]

Has anyone considered this?

***************(Begin Quote)

1 Corinthians 15:

35 But some man will say, “How are the dead raised up? And with what body do they come?”

36 You fool [think this through], that which you sow [in the ground] is not quickened [transformed], except it die [or rot, first]: 37 and that which you sow, you sow not that body that shall be, but bare grain [or seed], it may chance of wheat, or of some other grain: 38 but God gives it a body [the plant] as it has pleased Him, and to every seed his own body.

39 All flesh is not the same flesh: but there is one kind [of shape] of flesh of men, another flesh of beasts, another of fishes, and another of birds.

40 There are also celestial [heavenly] bodies, and bodies terrestrial [earthly]: but the glory of the celestial is one, and the glory of the terrestrial is another.

41 There is one glory [brightness] of the sun, and another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars: for one star differs from another star in glory [appearance].

42 So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption: 43 it is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power: 44 it is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body.

***************(End Quote)

Just as a potato seed bears no resemblance to the potato plant, or the corn seed to the corn stalk, so our new bodies will not be as our earthly ones! What our Creator intends to do is make new bodies for all the characters He has stored in His mind. They will not be the same as our present earthly ones, but they will be recognisably like us in some way which we may not comprehend right now, so that we will recognise each other after the resurrection. (There is always new seed on the new plant.) One major difference will be that we will look much younger than many of us do now, about Adam’s age at creation. (But when we see photos of past times we can still see the likeness of the elder so there will not be a problem.) And the disciples recognised Jesus in His new body after His resurrection. When we study nature and see the blade of wheat we know from experience what the stalk will look like – in the case of our bodies we don’t know yet, but we may be sure that it will be just right! Nor need we worry about where our atoms are after death. There is no law in nature which shows that God reuses the identical particles of matter which composed the body before death.

[rudywoofs (Pam)]

Has anyone considered this?

***************(Begin Quote)

1 Corinthians 15:

35 But some man will say, “How are the dead raised up? And with what body do they come?”

36 You fool [think this through], that which you sow [in the ground] is not quickened [transformed], except it die [or rot, first]: 37 and that which you sow, you sow not that body that shall be, but bare grain [or seed], it may chance of wheat, or of some other grain: 38 but God gives it a body [the plant] as it has pleased Him, and to every seed his own body.

39 All flesh is not the same flesh: but there is one kind [of shape] of flesh of men, another flesh of beasts, another of fishes, and another of birds.

40 There are also celestial [heavenly] bodies, and bodies terrestrial [earthly]: but the glory of the celestial is one, and the glory of the terrestrial is another.

41 There is one glory [brightness] of the sun, and another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars: for one star differs from another star in glory [appearance].

42 So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption: 43 it is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power: 44 it is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body.

***************(End Quote)

Just as a potato seed bears no resemblance to the potato plant, or the corn seed to the corn stalk, so our new bodies will not be as our earthly ones! What our Creator intends to do is make new bodies for all the characters He has stored in His mind. They will not be the same as our present earthly ones, but they will be recognisably like us in some way which we may not comprehend right now, so that we will recognise each other after the resurrection. (There is always new seed on the new plant.) One major difference will be that we will look much younger than many of us do now, about Adam’s age at creation. (But when we see photos of past times we can still see the likeness of the elder so there will not be a problem.) And the disciples recognised Jesus in His new body after His resurrection. When we study nature and see the blade of wheat we know from experience what the stalk will look like – in the case of our bodies we don’t know yet, but we may be sure that it will be just right! Nor need we worry about where our atoms are after death. There is no law in nature which shows that God reuses the identical particles of matter which composed the body before death.

thanks for your input, Ron... but the above reasoning puts an even weirder twist on my original question... if all new dust is used for the individuals when they are resurrected, then the people are just going to pop out of nowhere, with no rhyme nor reason. Jesus was resurrected from where His body was buried. Since His burial linens weren't full of ashes, then it's reasonable to say Christ's resurrected body was made of the dust He was born with. Are the resurrected going to be treated differently? And why would the wicked receive "new" bodies?

[Naomi]

thanks for your input, Ron... but the above reasoning puts an even weirder twist on my original question... if all new dust is used for the individuals when they are resurrected, then the people are just going to pop out of nowhere, with no rhyme nor reason. Jesus was resurrected from where His body was buried. Since His burial linens weren't full of ashes, then it's reasonable to say Christ's resurrected body was made of the dust He was born with. Are the resurrected going to be treated differently? And why would the wicked receive "new" bodies?

Our Lord is a God of order ... why is it so difficult to believe that graves can be opened and the dead raised as they were in life ... except in perfect physical and mental health.

[rudywoofs (Pam)]

Our Lord is a God of order ... why is it so difficult to believe that graves can be opened and the dead raised as they were in life ... except in perfect physical and mental health.

that wasn't the issue. The OP was about those whose ashes have been sprinkled in the ocean and elsewhere. When the ashes get sprinkled on the ground, sea or air, they probably are reabsorbed into some other organic/inorganic forms. So for *those* people to have the same dust used for their resurrected bodies, seems a bit illogical.

I mean, this isn't a life/death matter, as God's got the whole thing figured out - it's just one of those interesting (to me) questions that I sometimes ponder....

[RonP]

Hi Rudywoofs,

If you can bear with me, here is a rather lengthy reply to your query.

Nowhere in the Bible does it say that the resurrected “will pop up out of nowhere”. And I don’t wish to use the phrase “reasonable to say” when we are looking at God’s word! We need to live by His word, not our assumptions. But in the light of our God’s character we can know that He will not want us to be confused, so the pictures of us being raised from our graves are just that – artist’s impressions. What does it matter if we are not in a grave, buried at sea, or scattered on the earth? Moments after the resurrection that will all be absorbed in the joy of meeting up with each other again. “Friends long separated by death are united, nevermore to part, and with songs of gladness ascend together to the City of God.”

It helps if we realise that we are discussing two separate things here – the body and the character. The body needs replacing, the character remains unchanged. As Paul wrote:

***************(Begin Quote)

1 Corinthians 15:44-50

It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body . . .

AS IS the earthy, such are they ALSO that are earthy: and AS IS the heavenly, such are they ALSO that are heavenly. And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly.

Now this I say, brethren, that [earthly] flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither does corruption inherit incorruption.

***************(End Quote)

So the question of the original ashes, atoms, molecules etc. does not need to arise.

Here are a few statements from EGW.

{6BC 1093.2-3}

Our personal identity is preserved in the resurrection, though not the same particles of matter or material substance as went into the grave.

The wondrous works of God are a mystery to man. The spirit, the character of man, is returned to God, there to be preserved. In the resurrection every man will have his own character. God in His own time will call forth the dead, giving again the breath of life, and bidding the dry bones live.

The same form will come forth, but it will be free from disease and every defect. It lives again bearing the same individuality of features, so that friend will recognize friend. There is no law of God in nature which shows that God gives back the same identical particles of matter which composed the body before death. God shall give the righteous dead a body that will please Him. {6BC 1093.2}

Paul illustrates this subject by the kernel of grain sown in the field. The planted kernel decays, but there comes forth a new kernel. The natural substance in the grain that decays is never raised as before, but God giveth it a body as it hath pleased Him. A much finer material will compose the human body, for it is a new creation, a new birth. It is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body. (MS 76, 1900).

{Ed 110.4}

The seed dies, to spring forth into new life. In this we are taught the lesson of the resurrection. Of the human body laid away to molder in the grave, God has said: "It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption: it is sown in dishonor; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power." 1 Corinthians 15:42, 43.

{GC 662.1}

At the close of the thousand years, Christ again returns to the earth. He is accompanied by the host of the redeemed and attended by a retinue of angels. As He descends in terrific majesty He bids the wicked dead arise to receive their doom. They come forth, a mighty host, numberless as the sands of the sea. What a contrast to those who were raised at the first resurrection! The righteous were clothed with immortal youth and beauty. The wicked bear the traces of disease and death.

{GC 644.2 - 645.1}

Amid the reeling of the earth, the flash of lightning, and the roar of thunder, the voice of the Son of God calls forth the sleeping saints. He looks upon the graves of the righteous, then, raising His hands to heaven, He cries: "Awake, awake, awake, ye that sleep in the dust, and arise!" [isaiah 26:19.] Throughout the length and breadth of the earth the dead shall hear that voice, and they that hear shall live. And the whole earth shall ring with the tread of the exceeding great army of every nation, kindred, tongue, and people. From the prison house of death they come, clothed with immortal glory, crying: "O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory?" 1 Corinthians 15:55. And the living righteous and the risen saints unite their voices in a long, glad shout of victory. {GC 644.2}

All come forth from their graves the same in stature as when they entered the tomb. Adam, who stands among the risen throng, is of lofty height and majestic form, in stature but little below the Son of God. He presents a marked contrast to the people of later generations; in this one respect is shown the great degeneracy of the race.

But all arise with the freshness and vigor of eternal youth.

In the beginning, man was created in the likeness of God, not only in character, but in form and feature. Sin defaced and almost obliterated the divine image; but Christ came to restore that which had been lost. He will change our vile bodies and fashion them like unto His glorious body. The mortal, corruptible form, devoid of comeliness, once polluted with sin, becomes perfect, beautiful, and immortal. All blemishes and deformities are left in the grave. Restored to the tree of life in the long-lost Eden, the redeemed will "grow up" (Malachi 4:2) to the full stature of the race in its primeval glory. The last lingering traces of the curse of sin will be removed, and Christ's faithful ones will appear in "the beauty of the Lord our God," in mind and soul and body reflecting the perfect image of their Lord. Oh, wonderful redemption! long talked of, long hoped for, contemplated with eager anticipation, but never fully understood. {GC 644.3}

The living righteous are changed "in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye." At the voice of God they were glorified; now they are made immortal and with the risen saints are caught up to meet their Lord in the air. Angels "gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other." Little children are borne by holy angels to their mothers' arms. Friends long separated by death are united, nevermore to part, and with songs of gladness ascend together to the City of God. {GC 645.1}

Hope this helps.

[Tobiwan]

Why will the wicked receive new bodies? I would suspect because the ones they had have all been eaten by the worms and bacteria. The difference in the wicked, their model will not be the upgraded versions being prepared for God's friends.

I feel any Being who has the capability to make the universe from non pre-existening stuff and keep track of the number of hair people lose each day, is able to save or store, in some way, the DNA sequence necessary to rebuild His children. He is also able to make considerable improvements to each and every one of them.

Just my thoughts

[Aliensanctuary]

Jesus did say his Father could make children of Abraham from stones. I don't believe that our resurrected bodies will contain the exact same elements that we were born with, but that we will be resurrected much in the same way that life was originally created, via DNA and rapid-growth technology. Human memories have all been recorded by Spirit throughout history, which stores this information for retrieval at a later date.

When a person is resurrected by rapid reconstruction using their DNA record, their memories are downloaded via Spirit into their brains. Now, we have an exact replica of the once-dead human. I think at the Resurrection, though, all of humanity will be 20 years old or less, but with a lifetime of memories for those who lived longer in their former life. I don't think there will be any clothing resurrected, but that will be provided for those wanting to cover their nakedness, according to Christ.

Now those chosen for the Kingdom of YHVH will be resurrected as children, clones more or less, with all memories of evil and their former life deleted from their minds. As they drink the Water of Life, their sense of Self is removed, and no longer will selfishness rule over their lives, making them safe to become permanent members of the Kingdom of YHVH.

[8thdaypriest]

The redeemed are raised with immortal "spiritual" bodies.

The wicked are raised with mortal physical bodies.

In the OT laws, anything having to do with sex rendered the individuals "unclean".

Excrement was to be buried OUTSIDE the camp.

So I don't think those two things will concern us in the KINGDOM.

There will be no marriage. We will be immortal - like the angels.

Our brains are just very sophisticated bio-computers.

At the moment of death - God simply "downloads" the memory.

At the resurrection, He uploads that memory back into a new body.

Concerning the "Great White Throne judgment".

It says "the dead" "stand before God".

They ARE DEAD - physically dead - not alive.

There is NO third resurrection.

I believe it is the download from their minds - that which the LORD could use to resurrect them again - that is what is thrown into the lake of fire. God calls it His memory of them.

They "stand before God" only in the sense of the record of their "works".

I don't believe God will destroy billions of human beings without the consent of the redeemed.

THAT is what this judgment/review of records is about.

Sorry - got off thread.

Blessings,

Rachel Cory

Prophecy Viewpoint

[8thdaypriest]

The redeemed are raised with immortal "spiritual" bodies.

The wicked are raised with mortal physical bodies.

In the OT laws, anything having to do with sex rendered the individuals "unclean".

Excrement was to be buried OUTSIDE the camp.

So I don't think those two things will concern us in the KINGDOM.

There will be no marriage. We will be immortal - like the angels.

Our brains are just very sophisticated bio-computers.

At the moment of death - God simply "downloads" the memory.

At the resurrection, He uploads that memory back into a new body.

Concerning the "Great White Throne judgment".

It says "the dead" "stand before God".

They ARE DEAD - physically dead - not alive.

There is NO third resurrection.

I believe it is the download from their minds - that which the LORD could use to resurrect them again - that is what is thrown into the lake of fire. God calls it His memory of them.

They "stand before God" only in the sense of the record of their "works".

I don't believe God will destroy billions of human beings without the consent of the redeemed.

THAT is what this judgment/review of records is about.

Sorry - got off thread.

Blessings,

Rachel Cory

Prophecy Viewpoint

[BobRyan]

it used to be that when people died, they were buried, or at least the remains stayed pretty much together.

with cremation so common these days, it got me to wondering about the resurrection...

now, I can somewhat visualize the resurrection of some who were cremated, such as those whose ashes remained together, or of the Jews and others who were cremated at the concentration camps during WWII...

but, what if someone's ashes got sprinkled at sea or tossed to the winds, where will the resurrected body show up?

will the bodies pop up in the place they died? or in the place they were buried?

Since God is a God of order, I can't imagine the resurrection spot would be random.

Any thoughts?

The RCC burned many of the saints and scattered their ashes thinking that this would befuddle the God of the universe and even HE would not be able to raise them up and take them to heaven... in other cases Christians were fed to wild animals by the pagan Roman rulers...

1Cor 15 says that the body that is sown and returns to "dust" is NOT the body that is raised.

God does not 'need your special carbon atoms" to make your new heavenly immortal body of 2Cor 5:1-6.

in Christ,

Bob

[rudywoofs (Pam)]

okay, so apparently people won't be raised from where they are buried?? How does that mesh with the fact that Christ was raised from the tomb where He was placed? And how does the idea that the same "carbon atoms" will not be used, if Christ's body apparently was the very one that *was* raised, as there was no dust of a body in the tomb.... and why would the burial linens be nicely folded if the actual body had not been raised? Are we not going to be resurrected as Jesus was resurrected??

[8thdaypriest]

Ancient burial practice was to wrap the body in strips of linen - yards and yards and yards of it.

In between the strips aloes and myrrh was glued as a sticky paste.

Those "graveclothes" were NOT folded. That is not Scripture.

When Peter and John ran to the tomb and looked in, what they "saw" caused them to believe.

They saw a cocoon of wrapping, slightly collapsed - because the "body" had disappeared.

Now the linen napkin that would have been placed across His face - that could have been "folded".

When Enoch was translated a body was never found.

When Elijah was translated, the empty shell of his body didn't fall back to earth.

When Moses was resurrected, the Devil argued for his body.

There HAS to be a body for a human to be alive.

So - the LORD has to remember our body exactly - to recreate it - for the wicked to come up in their physical bodies, or newly create it for the saints to be raised with immortal spiritual bodies that "look like" their old physical ones. Personally, I would like to be taller, and look 30 again, but I'm not sure that will be.

When John saw Christ many years later in his Patmos vision, Christ had silver hair. I'm sure He didn't when He died. So - will be all eventually have silver hair.

So many questions:

Blessings

[Aliensanctuary]

Quote:

people won't be raised from where they are buried??

Jesus, along with those he raised from the dead, weren't dead long enough for their bodies to disintegrate. I'm sure there was a certain amount of decay, but the Spirit, capable of DNA repair, did just that, restoring circulation and body functions.

It was the Spirit of YHVH that assembled the atoms and molecules into DNA, then rapidly "grew" the plants and animals used to colonize the Earth. I think the same method, using stored DNA but connected with stored memories, will be used to "clone" humans near the End of Time who will all experience the momentous events that lay ahead of them.

Rather than have these "clones" scattered across the planet, it might be more convenient to have them located on one continent or region for easier distribution of food and clothing, all air-dropped from the sky. That would be a huge mass, aka "sea", of people assembled to experience the Last Days Events and determine their eternal destiny.

As far as those who are chosen to join the Kingdom of YHVH, according to scripture, their old bodies will be transformed into a new kind of body, unsexed, minus the old, selfish and rebellious human nature. Likely, the Spirit has something to do with this transformation also.

Like the old resurrected human bodies, these new bodies are clones also, but not human clones with their damaged genetics, and with very few remaining memories of their former life. These clones will make ideal workers for the Kingdom of YHVH because they no longer have the sense of self, which has proven so troublesome to us in this life. Their only goal is to serve their Master well and perform the tasks assigned to them, whether on Earth or in space.

That was the destiny of Israel in the days of Moses, to serve YHVH with willing obedience in return for possession of the Promised Land. This movement was kind of a rehearsal for the next life, but of course, due to human selfishness, ultimately failed to fulfill its mission. The slavery and degradation of Israel by the Egyptians was but a sample of life under the rule of Satan.

Anyway, cloning is good. The followers of Christ do not have to worry if they are killed for his sake, because they could be "reincarnated", or cloned, into their former selves any number of times, if necessary, as long as their memories and DNA remain intact. Like someone mentioned previously, when stored DNA and memories are destroyed, that person is gone forever.

[Aliensanctuary]

Since his own close friends did not recognize Jesus post resurrection, I'm thinking that he may have received the body that those chosen to join his kingdom will receive. It is curious, though, that Thomas appeared to have felt Christ's healed sword wound.