Cops called on "homeless Jesus"

[lazarus]

I wonder how many SDA churches wouldn't want this sculpture outside their church.

[bonnie]

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[lazarus]

Did u watch the whole video?

"Praying to the statue". Interesting!

[M. T. Cross]

Why would you think that there would be something unchristian about their response to what they thought was a homeless person?

Why would someone call the cops cause a homeless person was sleeping on a bench in front of a church?

They might feel the need to be close to their God as well.

[bonnie]

Did u watch the whole video?

"Praying to the statue". Interesting!

[JoeMo]

Quote:

I wonder how many SDA churches wouldn't want this sculpture outside their church.

Not just SDA's, but any mainstream denomination in a middle-class or rich area?

Additionally, how many people would let want this guy in their congregation?

I'm speaking in generalities. I know there are good people in good churches everywhere. But (IMO) most churches are uncomfortable with the homeless, mentally ill and substance-dependent.

[bonnie]

Why would someone call the cops cause a homeless person was sleeping on a bench in front of a church?

They might feel the need to be close to their God as well.

I can think of reasons to do that. If I did not feel in a position to help someone that only had a park bench to sleep on,I would contact the police or someone to see that they got help. Here the police would see they had food and shelter for the night.

In this day and age someone wanting to offer help may not feel safe in doing so,many mentally ill,drug addicts,predators,but still don't feel right in leaving someone to a park bench.

In our area many of the churches have evening activities with young children,most parents would keep a cautious eye on that situation. I know I would.

[JoeMo]

Quote:

Why would someone call the cops cause a homeless person was sleeping on a bench in front of a church?

Good question; but people do just that. We have been chased away by police for handing out food and clean clothes to the homeless because we were "assembling without a permit". Someone called the cops cuz there were too many people on the sidewalk making too much noise.

[bonnie]

Good question; but people do just that. We have been chased away by police for handing out food and clean clothes to the homeless because we were "assembling without a permit". Someone called the cops cuz there were too many people on the sidewalk making too much noise.

So if you were not in a position to help this "person" sleeping" on a park bench,you would what? Wish him a good night and go on your way,hoping that no one will harm him or that he won't harm someone else.

[LifeHiscost]

Quote:

I know there are good people in good churches everywhere.

While I'm aware of the instruction from 1 Cor:13 that love is ever ready to believe the best of every person, there is another

viewpoint that would seem to mitigate that, also from the Word.

"“Why ask me about what is good?” Jesus replied. “There is only One who is good. But to answer your question—if you want to receive eternal life, keep the commandments.”"Matthew 19:17 NLT

That sounds to me as if just conducting yourself with good behavior isn't enough to make one "good". Sometimes spending the night in the slammer is the best thing one can initiate, but it would seem each person must be allowed to make up their own mind at the time of the circumstance they are facing, including the officer that might be called to the scene.

Thoughts?

God cares! Jesus saves!

[Stan]

What about the Wealthy? Why focus on those we can look down our nose at?

Few homeless commit suicide..

That is often those of wealth, not homeless.

Back to the origin comment..

What about having a wealthy person on the bench.. they can be broken as well.

[rudywoofs (Pam)]

What about the Wealthy? Why focus on those we can look down our nose at?

Few homeless commit suicide..

That is often those of wealth, not homeless.

Back to the origin comment..

What about having a wealthy person on the bench.. they can be broken as well.

and when churchians see a wealthy/famous person, they usually don't see them as individuals with needs... rather, they see them as sources of money and reputation..

[LifeHiscost]

Quote:

and when churchians see a wealthy/famous person, they usually don't see them as individuals with needs...

"‘I thank you, God, that I am not a sinner like everyone else. For I don’t cheat, I don’t sin, and I don’t commit adultery. I’m certainly not like that.. (churchian)!I fast twice a week, and I give you a tenth of my income.’"Luke 18:11-12 NLT Parenthesis mine LHC

God cares! Jesus saves!

[JoeMo]

Quote:

So if you were not in a position to help this "person" sleeping" on a park bench,you would what? Wish him a good night and go on your way,hoping that no one will harm him or that he won't harm someone else.

It totally depends on the situation and circumstances. Neither I nor my church have the resources to provide shelter of finances for everyone in need who comes our way. I'm not gonna give cash to a crack addict; and I'm not gonna stop on a freeway exit to fish for cash with cars honking behind me. And I'm not gonna risk my job to lend aid to every needy person I see on the way to work. If that sounds unchristian; call me an infidel and let's move on.

What we "can" do and what we "do" do (can I say do-do on CA?) are sometimes two different things.

[bonnie]

It totally depends on the situation and circumstances. Neither I nor my church have the resources to provide shelter of finances for everyone in need who comes our way. I'm not gonna give cash to a crack addict; and I'm not gonna stop on a freeway exit to fish for cash with cars honking behind me. And I'm not gonna risk my job to lend aid to every needy person I see on the way to work. If that sounds unchristian; call me an infidel and let's move on.

What we "can" do and what we "do" do (can I say do-do on CA?) are sometimes two different things.

Not unchristian to me but that was not the implication in the question.

I wonder how many SDA churches wouldn't want this sculpture outside their church.

Most SDA churches I am familiar with would attempt to help someone sleeping on a bench by the church.

Nor would most SDA churches that I know be uncomfortable with a homeless person walking into the church.

[lazarus]

Most SDA churches I am familiar with would attempt to help someone sleeping on a bench by the church.

Nor would most SDA churches that I know be uncomfortable with a homeless person walking into the church.

Two other churches rejected the sculpture. That's I why asked that rhetorical question.

[lazarus]

What about having a wealthy person on the bench.. they can be broken as well.

To me it doesn't have the same kind of power to have a rich person sitting on a bench. I think a broken wealthy person can relate to the "homeless Jesus" too!

[bonnie]

Originally Posted By: bonnie

Most SDA churches I am familiar with would attempt to help someone sleeping on a bench by the church.

Nor would most SDA churches that I know be uncomfortable with a homeless person walking into the church.

Two other churches rejected the sculpture. That's why asked that rhetorical question.

Why were they rejecting the sculpture?

This sculpture cost 22,000.00. I would much rather see that amount of money given to a food shelf,homeless shelter,it could buy a number of warm winter coats for children and adults etc.

Maybe a big sign would do it,

If you are hungry,cold and alone PLEASE Call.........

This looks like simple grandstanding

[lazarus]

..

This looks like simple grandstanding

It's was paid for by a private donor as a memorial. Grandstanding by who, the church? Do you not think that people should spend money on expensive memorials?

[bonnie]

It's was paid for by a private donor as a memorial. Grandstanding by who, the church? Do you not think that people should spend money on expensive memorials?

Was the money donated for a sculpture of this type? Was this wealthy donor donating enough money to pay for this 22,000.00 sculpture for any church that would accept?

I would much rather see the money actively helping those that need it than a pointless statue on a park bench.

[lazarus]

I would much rather see the money actively helping those that need it than a pointless statue on a park bench.

Hardly pointless. The point is very powerful as evidenced by the controversy. Your county has probably spent thousands of your tax dollars on memorials and statues which probably honor the achievements of regular men and women. It's good to have some public art depicting the message of Jesus from time to time.

[bonnie]

Hardly pointless. The point is very powerful as evidenced by the controversy. Your county has probably spent thousands of your tax dollars on memorials and statues which probably honor the achievements of regular men and women. It's good to have some public art depicting the message of Jesus from time to time.

Controversy does not always mean productive.

This doesn't have a thing to do with "my country" spending thousands of my tax dollar on memorials.

This has to do with how a church chooses to spend their dollars.

If this church wanted this "memorial" let them do so without the subtle implications that churches that choose not to are somehow less than they are.

This is more than public art. My home church would not turn away a homeless person,but hopefully would turn down the opportunity to display this "public work of art".

First like many churches ours is in a residential area. All homeless are not simply some harmless person down on their luck. Many are high on drugs or mentally ill among other things. We have had small children stranger abducted from the basement of a church while their parents were upstairs.

If I were to see that,especially in front of the church and did not feel comfortable in approaching someone alone,I would call the police to get the person some help. I guess shame on me.

In any event,I would not ignore what appeared to be someone in need. I would be a little put out to find it out it was a hoax designed to make people feel guilty,especially if I felt the need to use the police dept on something like that.At minimal cost a powerful message can be sent with a picture of Jesus and and invitation to those that are in need of help or feel alone.

Maybe some of that 22,000.00 could be spent improving their situation

[debbym]

Jesus is among us in the person of the homeless.

"If you have done it unto the least of these you have done it unto me."

Jesus slept on the ground, he had no place to lay His head. He was also given hospitality, and slept in many bedrooms and homes.

i have no doubt every home that offered Him a place was greatly blessed.

Just as every heart that offers Jesus a place is greatly blessed.

the suffering are generally outside of the comfort zone of the comfortable. this is sociological.

Yes Jesus is glorified today, but he walked through the lowest depths, carried our infirmities and our sorrows, and perished in our eternal death.

Art that depicts Christ in one phase of his life to bring attention, i believe is good. It is the work of the Spirit to make of it what He will in the hearts of human beings. Art is for the purpose of provoking thought.

Sin can take someones heart even when they are walking close to God, just as when they are walking far from Him. Lucifer turned from God in the full glory of His presence. There is no proper form that will insulate us from evil, and no improper form that has the power to wrench us from his heart.

you cannot stop someone from making a God of anything, from their culturally correct church decorum to wild Christian metal rock.

all things are pure to the pure. God pleads with all flesh everywhere.

this does not mean i am not clear on my own personal preferences in how i worship within my culture, history, and experience. i hold that God can make Himself known to anyone anywhere.

[rudywoofs (Pam)]

just a note about the cost of the sculpture ($22,000) and the idea that the money should have gone towards feeding, clothing, or otherwise helping the poor... many churches, including lots of SDA churches, have pipe organs.

The Casavant pipe organ at WWU cost upwards of $1 million, and the Rieger organ at PUC was over $380,000 in 1981 (to be replaced today would cost more than $1.5 million).. The organ at my church (with less than 100 active members) was over $50,000.

Now, the money for those organs could have been used to assist the poor... the churches could have used other musical instruments for the churches.

Music aficionados will claim that the costs were worth it for the musical artistry. In the case of the sculpture, at $22,000, art aficionados will claim the the comparatively inexpensive cost was also worthwhile.

Because "art" is in the eye of the beholder, it's always been a knot of contention... some will hate it, some will love it, some will argue about it, some will let it rest.

Personally, I don't care for the "Homeless Jesus" sculpture. I think it portrays Jesus as friendless (He wasn't), uncared for (He wasn't), and had no means of shelter (also not true). That said, however, I know the sculptor was trying to make a social statement....and if a church wants to have it outside their building, it really doesn't matter to me.

[bonnie]

just a note about the cost of the sculpture ($22,000) and the idea that the money should have gone towards feeding, clothing, or otherwise helping the poor... many churches, including lots of SDA churches, have pipe organs.

The Casavant pipe organ at WWU cost upwards of $1 million, and the Rieger organ at PUC was over $380,000 in 1981 (to be replaced today would cost more than $1.5 million).. The organ at my church (with less than 100 active members) was over $50,000.

Now, the money for those organs could have been used to assist the poor... the churches could have used other musical instruments for the churches.

Music aficionados will claim that the costs were worth it for the musical artistry. In the case of the sculpture, at $22,000, art aficionados will claim the the comparatively inexpensive cost was also worthwhile.

Because "art" is in the eye of the beholder, it's always been a knot of contention... some will hate it, some will love it, some will argue about it, some will let it rest.

Personally, I don't care for the "Homeless Jesus" sculpture. I think it portrays Jesus as friendless (He wasn't), uncared for (He wasn't), and had no means of shelter (also not true). That said, however, I know the sculptor was trying to make a social statement....and if a church wants to have it outside their building, it really doesn't matter to me.

I really don't care if this particular church wants to have it outside their church. It is the not so subtle implication that those that object are somehow less if they choose a different way to help those in need.

We have a small church,100 members give or take. Most are very active in outreach and given the choice of a 22,000.00 sculpture or hands on help,I believe they would choose the later.

If a particular church decides to have this outside their building,go for it,just don't get on the righteous high horse and imply you care more for the homeless