LifeHiscost Posted April 25, 2014 Posted April 25, 2014 Quote: But "relationship" was not the theme of the OT Maybe not in the mind of those who desired to be as independent as Lucifer. OTOH; "“Therefore behold, I will this once cause them to know, I will cause them to know My hand and My might; And they shall know that My name is the Lord."Jer 16:21 NKJV If I'm not mistaken, that word "know" is used in its' most intimate usage. God cares! Jesus saves! Quote Lift Jesus up!!
JoeMo Posted April 26, 2014 Posted April 26, 2014 What do you think the Old Covenant was? Why did the writer of Hebrews call it obsolete? Why did we need a New Covenant? What is that New Covenant? Who does it apply to just "us" people or does it include "those" people? Please use your own words; I have a Bible - you don't need to quote scripture or EGW to me. Quote
Administrators debbym Posted April 26, 2014 Administrators Posted April 26, 2014 the old covenant was a contractual relationship with God based on human promises to do all the Lord has said. and it was broken and never availed anything but failure and loss. i think it was entered into a failed within a few short days out there beneath Mt. Sinai. the new covenant was in the old testament, it was a contractual relationship with God based on God's promises, and it is successful and avail's victory, new heart, new mind, and a living relationship with God. the unfolding of the great controversy involves following God in the present and living a life of continual repentance, and increasing power to serve the needs of a dying world. It is for us to glorify the Character of God in a world he loves, and died for. and this has been true and unchanging from Adam's time to today. Quote deb Love awakens love. Let God be true and every man a liar.
LifeHiscost Posted April 26, 2014 Posted April 26, 2014 the old covenant was a contractual relationship with God based on human promises to do all the Lord has said. and it was broken and never availed anything but failure and loss. i think it was entered into a failed within a few short days out there beneath Mt. Sinai. the new covenant was in the old testament, it was a contractual relationship with God based on God's promises, and it is successful and avail's victory, new heart, new mind, and a living relationship with God. the unfolding of the great controversy involves following God in the present and living a life of continual repentance, and increasing power to serve the needs of a dying world. It is for us to glorify the Character of God in a world he loves, and died for. and this has been true and unchanging from Adam's time to today. Couldn't agree with you more. And I believe that would be referred to as the everlasting covenant. God cares! Jesus saves! Quote Lift Jesus up!!
Members phkrause Posted April 26, 2014 Members Posted April 26, 2014 Originally Posted By: debbym the old covenant was a contractual relationship with God based on human promises to do all the Lord has said. and it was broken and never availed anything but failure and loss. i think it was entered into a failed within a few short days out there beneath Mt. Sinai. the new covenant was in the old testament, it was a contractual relationship with God based on God's promises, and it is successful and avail's victory, new heart, new mind, and a living relationship with God. the unfolding of the great controversy involves following God in the present and living a life of continual repentance, and increasing power to serve the needs of a dying world. It is for us to glorify the Character of God in a world he loves, and died for. and this has been true and unchanging from Adam's time to today. Couldn't agree with you more. And I believe that would be referred to as the everlasting covenant. God cares! Jesus saves! I'll second that agree. Quote phkrause When the righteous are in authority, the people rejoice; But when a wicked man rules, the people groan. Proverbs 29;2
Administrators Gail Posted April 27, 2014 Administrators Posted April 27, 2014 Allow me to pose a question here: What would be reasons why people DON'T mingle with "those people"? Quote Isaiah 32:17 And the work of righteousness shall be peace; and the effect of righteousness quietness and assurance for ever.
Administrators debbym Posted April 28, 2014 Administrators Posted April 28, 2014 Quote: Allow me to pose a question here: What would be reasons why people DON'T mingle with "those people"? when we are going about getting for ourselves, those who have nothing to give to us we have no interest in. when we are going about seeking to give what God has generously given to us, we seek to give to anyone who will receive the Love of God. Quote deb Love awakens love. Let God be true and every man a liar.
Moderators Gregory Matthews Posted April 28, 2014 Moderators Posted April 28, 2014 Quote: when we are going about getting for ourselves, those who have nothing to give to us we have no interest in. This comes across to me as a self-centered approach, which I do not normally see in you. Quote: when we are going about seeking to give what God has generously given to us, we seek to give to anyone who will receive the Love of God. This comes across to me as not being a self-centered approach, but it does suggest that it involves a prior judgment in regard to whether or not the person will be receptive to receive the love of God from us. I find that a bit confusing. Perhaps I am wrong in regard to all of my above perceptions, but that is how them come across to me. Quote Gregory
Administrators debbym Posted April 28, 2014 Administrators Posted April 28, 2014 Quote: when we are going about getting for ourselves, those who have nothing to give to us we have no interest in. This comes across to me as a self-centered approach, which I do not normally see in you. Quote: when we are going about seeking to give what God has generously given to us, we seek to give to anyone who will receive the Love of God. This comes across to me as not being a self-centered approach, but it does suggest that it involves a prior judgment in regard to whether or not the person will be receptive to receive the love of God from us. I find that a bit confusing. Perhaps I am wrong in regard to all of my above perceptions, but that is how them come across to me. i guess i imagined it would be understood that we cannot read anyone's mind, and we cannot know who will receive God's Spirit and who will not. To cast your bread upon the waters, to offer to the living word to all would be the operant principle. who would not want or desire everyone to receive and live, and rejoice in those that do. and then respect those who do not wish to be bothered. love does not behave itself unseemly. Quote deb Love awakens love. Let God be true and every man a liar.
Administrators Gail Posted April 28, 2014 Administrators Posted April 28, 2014 Greg, I think that Deb was simply answering the question I asked in the post before. I am understanding her to say that self-seeking prevents us from wanting to mingle with "those people," whoever those are. Quote Isaiah 32:17 And the work of righteousness shall be peace; and the effect of righteousness quietness and assurance for ever.
Moderators lazarus Posted April 29, 2014 Moderators Posted April 29, 2014 What would be reasons why people DON'T mingle with "those people"? We don't have time. "They" make us uncomfortable. It's difficult. We feel were are better, superior, more spiritual etc. We feel inadequate. We don't think we have anything to offer. We think the "professionals" can do a better job. Quote Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocrities. The latter cannot understand it when a man does not thoughtlessly submit to hereditary prejudices but honestly and courageously uses his intelligence. Einstein
Administrators Gail Posted April 29, 2014 Administrators Posted April 29, 2014 Originally Posted By: Gail What would be reasons why people DON'T mingle with "those people"? We don't have time. "They" make us uncomfortable. It's difficult. We feel were are better, superior, more spiritual etc. We feel inadequate. We don't think we have anything to offer. We think the "professionals" can do a better job. Are these reasonable excuses? Should we do things differently? If so, how? Quote Isaiah 32:17 And the work of righteousness shall be peace; and the effect of righteousness quietness and assurance for ever.
Moderators Gregory Matthews Posted April 30, 2014 Moderators Posted April 30, 2014 O.K. AS I said, I was confused. Thanks for the clarification. Quote Gregory
Members rudywoofs (Pam) Posted April 30, 2014 Members Posted April 30, 2014 one thing that kinda bothers me about this thread is that some seem to feel it's a *duty* to mingle "with those people".... maybe the whole thing should be done from a different perspective... that it might actually be *interesting* to mingle "with those people".... that maybe *those people* have something meaningful to teach and show "us"... that maybe we're not all that we *think* we are... reminds me of a quote I just put on my page today: ...always tell the truth, do no harm to others, and don't think you are the most important being on earth. Rich or poor, you then can look anyone in the eye and say, "I'm probably no better than you, but I'm certainly your equal." ~ Harper Lee Quote Pam Meddle Not In the Affairs of Dragons; for You Are Crunchy and Taste Good with Ketchup. If we all sang the same note in the choir, there'd never be any harmony. Funny, isn't it, how we accept Grace for ourselves and demand justice for others?
LifeHiscost Posted April 30, 2014 Posted April 30, 2014 Quote: but I'm certainly your equal."~ Some how that just seems to be another way of saying, "I'm glad you're just as bad as I am." God cares! Jesus saves! Quote Lift Jesus up!!
Members phkrause Posted April 30, 2014 Members Posted April 30, 2014 Quote: but I'm certainly your equal."~ Some how that just seems to be another way of saying, "I'm glad you're just as bad as I am." God cares! Jesus saves! Well I guess you can look at it both ways! Like is the glass half empty or half full? Its in how you want to look at it, isn't it?? I think Pam makes a great point either way. Quote phkrause When the righteous are in authority, the people rejoice; But when a wicked man rules, the people groan. Proverbs 29;2
CoAspen Posted April 30, 2014 Posted April 30, 2014 Yup...one can have a positive or negative view of most anything. Quote
LifeHiscost Posted April 30, 2014 Posted April 30, 2014 Quote: but I'm certainly your equal. If that had been stated, "I'm certain your my equal." it would have reflected positively as well as added humility to his picture. God blesses! Jesus saves! Quote Lift Jesus up!!
Members rudywoofs (Pam) Posted May 1, 2014 Members Posted May 1, 2014 Quote: but I'm certainly your equal. If that had been stated, "I'm certain your my equal." it would have reflected positively as well as added humility to his picture. another classic case of taking a thought out of context... congratulations - if nothing else, you're consistent.. Quote Pam Meddle Not In the Affairs of Dragons; for You Are Crunchy and Taste Good with Ketchup. If we all sang the same note in the choir, there'd never be any harmony. Funny, isn't it, how we accept Grace for ourselves and demand justice for others?
Administrators debbym Posted May 1, 2014 Administrators Posted May 1, 2014 Originally Posted By: lazarus What would be reasons why people DON'T mingle with "those people"? We don't have time. "They" make us uncomfortable. It's difficult. We feel were are better, superior, more spiritual etc. We feel inadequate. We don't think we have anything to offer. We think the "professionals" can do a better job. Originally Posted By: Gail Are these reasonable excuses? Should we do things differently? If so, how? if we love them with the same Love Christ has for them, love will find a way. Love has crossed the ocean. Love has sunk to the depths of hell for those so loved. Love can cross social gaps, endure discomfort, overcome difficulties, and find resources, and not pass the buck. When we do not have the passion of love we cannot find the path. We are blind without love. Quote deb Love awakens love. Let God be true and every man a liar.
LifeHiscost Posted May 1, 2014 Posted May 1, 2014 Quote: taking a thought out of context Out of whose context? And I've always considered "classic" and "consistent" positive attributes. And how do we expect to "mingle with those People" without moving out of context, not to mention that being "out of context" is a man made requirement for those not interested in any thoughts other than their own. God cares! Jesus saves! Quote Lift Jesus up!!
Members rudywoofs (Pam) Posted May 1, 2014 Members Posted May 1, 2014 **off topic** Quote: taking a thought out of context Out of whose context? And I've always considered "classic" and "consistent" positive attributes. And how do we expect to "mingle with those People" without moving out of context, not to mention that being "out of context" is a man made requirement for those not interested in any thoughts other than their own. if you're going to quote someone, at least give that person the decency and respect of quoting in context. Apparently you have again decided that making yourself obnoxious and disagreeable to be around is something you like to do. I've had it with your innuendos, your mocking of others' beliefs, and the spiritual buffoonery. And I've had it with your incessant criticisms of nearly everything I write. I don't wish to engage in dialog with you any longer. *click* You are now on "ignore".... **back to topic** Quote Pam Meddle Not In the Affairs of Dragons; for You Are Crunchy and Taste Good with Ketchup. If we all sang the same note in the choir, there'd never be any harmony. Funny, isn't it, how we accept Grace for ourselves and demand justice for others?
joeb Posted May 1, 2014 Posted May 1, 2014 Quote: one thing that kinda bothers me about this thread is that some seem to feel it's a *duty* to mingle "with those people".... Quote: duty ~ noun uncommon 1. the social force that binds you to the courses of action demanded by that force we must instill a sense of duty in our children; every right implies a responsibility; every opportunity, an obligation; every possession, a duty- John D.Rockefeller Jr 2. work that you are obliged to perform for moral or legal reasons the duties of the job How is "duty" a negative? Doesn't a father have a duty to provide for his children? Does the fact that it is his duty mean he loves his children any less? Didn't Jesus figure it was His duty to come to earth to save those who would accept Him and His sacrifice? I say that because there was no one other than Jesus who could come to save us, thus it was His duty. That duty was laid upon His so forcefully that He could do nothing else. What laid that duty upon Him? His heart of love. The opportunity He had to save us. He possessed such a heart of love that it laid the duty upon Him. (See the above bolded quote from John D. Rockefeller) A Christian fulfilling his duty comes from a love that consumes his heart and places that duty upon him. I see nothing negative at all in the concept of duty, especially when it is applied to the Christian. In fact, I would posit that it is impossible to fulfill, or even sense, our duty to others without a heart that is driving us to do just that. Quote Liberty cannot be established without morality, nor morality without faith.Alexis de Tocqueville
joeb Posted May 1, 2014 Posted May 1, 2014 Hey, joeb, Good to see you back! I don't deny that relationship has always been available; nor do I deny that a common sense reading of the OT would show one the working of the Holy Spirit. But "relationship" was not the theme of the OT; nor is it the theme of many conservative denominations and cultures today that preach salvation through law-keeping and good works. How can people read the books of Isaiah and Zechariah and not "get" the concept of a suffering Messiah? Yet millions still don't recognize Christ as the Messiah. Just cuz people "should" have understood it doesn't mean they did. I didn't get it until just a few years ago. Hey JoeMo, It's nice to be able to post once in a while again. Again and again the OT portrays the relationship betweeen God and His people in terms of marriage. For me that is the kind of the ultimate in human relationships. We marry out of love, or at least we should if we want our marriage to last. So, when God speaks of His relationship to us in terms of marriage He's talking about a love relationship. I would say this idea of marriage to convey God's idea of His relationship with us is a very common theme in the OT. It's just as common as God speaking about His people as His children, which once again is a love relationship. Now, I'll get a little personal, but you opened to door to it. Why, if we have a much greater portion of the Holy Spirit than was available to the OT people, does it take us just as long, if not longer even though we have them as an example, to learn the same lessons? Why are people even more dedicated to evil today than they were back then? Why do we have people who have consciences seared as with a hot iron today? Why is it people still think they can obey God on their own? Why do they still ignore the idea of being born again? It's all through the NT and the OT. Would that not suggest, the way you are positing things, an even smaller portion of the Holy Spirit being given to us today? Quote Liberty cannot be established without morality, nor morality without faith.Alexis de Tocqueville
LifeHiscost Posted May 1, 2014 Posted May 1, 2014 Quote: What laid that duty upon Him? His heart of love. The opportunity He had to save us. He possessed such a heart of love that it laid the duty upon Him. A Christian fulfilling his duty comes from a love that consumes his heart and places that duty upon him. I see nothing negative at all in the concept of duty, especially when it is applied to the Christian. In fact, I would posit that it is impossible to fulfill, or even sense, our duty to others without a heart that is driving us to do just that. And I would like to suggest that in the very near future all who would serve Jesus will be asked to put his/her physical life on the line for the sake of spreading the love of God, of which many in the world are already doing just that. "“And I say to you, My friends, do not be afraid of those who kill the body, and after that have no more that they can do."Luke 12:4 NKJV God/Jesus cares! Quote Lift Jesus up!!
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