People that have never heard of Jesus?

[Gregory Matthews]

Quote:

Nothing is said about inviting other people to come. The opposite point seems to be made - only Noah's family would come, along with matched pairs of animals, male and female.

IF we had nothing to go on except the chapters in Genesis that relate to Noah, Your position would seem to be correct that only the family of Noah were invited to enter the Ark.

However, I Peter 3:20 seems to indicate that during the period of time that Noah built the Ark God allowed people to make a decision as to whether or not they would enter the ark. The Bible does not tell us whether or not any people made a decision to go along with Noah and enter the Ark. It is possible that some made a positive decision, but due to age died before the ark was finished. We simply are not told.

Another approach that some will take is that prior to any time of great judgment, God convicts people and gives them choices. This is certainly the message of the 3-Angels.

In any case, I do not believe that we can rule out that God may have given people other than the family of Noah the opportunity to enter the Ark.

[Bert]

Quote:

Response by 8th day - My belief is that those who knowingly resisted the Spirit of God during their lives on earth will be resurrected to face judgment at the Second Coming. (See Daniel 12:2-3). They will then die either by the brightness of His coming, or by the plagues, and will NOT be raised again - ever.

Not biblical, for the redeemed and the wicked will have been determined when Christ returns at His second coming. Matthew 25:31-34 tells us that 'He will separate the sheep on His right hand and the goats on the left'...the sheep being the redeemed or saved as explained in verse 34, the goats being the wicked, left here on earth. The judgment of the wicked occurs at the end of the millennial period of 1000 years as given in Revelation 20:5 when the wicked are resurrected at the second resurrection. The last sentence in verse 5 should not be miscontrued to intimate that it means the 'rest of the dead' were part of the first resurrection. The sentence is a concluding sentence to the verses that precede verse 7. The wicked who are still alive at the time of Christ's second coming will be struck down 'by the brightness of His coming', thus there will not be any life on this earth other than Satan and his fallen angel cohorts.

Quote:

Those who lived in ignorance - will be resurrected as "the rest of the dead" AFTER the 1000 years of the 7th millennium. They will be taught by the priesthood (the redeemed from the first resurrection). They will then choose whom they will serve.

Those who have lived in ignorance since Adam's time are a special group, for God looks at their heart, and Acts 17:30 says that God 'winks' at the 'times of this ignorance', but now (meaning after the gospel message is known) God 'commands all men everywhere to repent.' The time of teaching and accepting Christ as their Saviour is BEFORE Christ comes, for each one's fate will have been determined when He comes.

Quote:

Most will rebel - and that will be Gog/Magog. But many will come to know "His ways", and will come into the kingdom of God.

I believe that our God is JUST.

His justice demands that every human being must CHOOSE, and that choice must be TESTED. Works (behavior - demonstrating choice) will determine final citizenship, or final annihilation.

In the final analysis, salvation comes down to one simple equation...who will we obey...God or man. God has provided us with a 'salvation manual', the Bible, that gives us all of the information we need to make the correct decision as to who we will obey. A verse in Acts is very apt that says, 'I will obey God rather than man'. That decision has to be made every day, for when we err, we must pray for our faults and sins to be forgiven. Christ says that He 'is willing and able to forgive us of our sins'. This must be done in order to maintain a relationship with God that Christ enabled us to do as a result of His sacrifice on the Cross of Calvary for our sins...past, present and future. It is then up to us to take advantage of His sacrifice and follow Him in everything that we do and say each day to maintain this relationship.

God bless,

Bert

[Samie]

The gospel that is the power of God for salvation of BELIEVERS now, is the same gospel that is the power of God for salvation of those "People that have never heard of Jesus". This had to be because Scriptures speak of only one gospel: the everlasting gospel.

If the gospel a preacher brings is applicable only to people born AFTER the cross and NOT to those BEFORE, then his gospel could not possibly be the gospel Paul preached.

[8thdaypriest]

KJV Daniel 12:1-2 And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.

2 And many [not all] of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt. (KJV)

"At that time"

"many" [not all] of those who sleep will be raised

"some to everlasting life"

"some to shame and everlasting contempt"

There's your sheep and goats.

AND THEN THERE ARE THE REST

"The rest of the dead lived not again until the 1000 years were finished."

The second coming will be judgment day.

Acts 24:15 “I have hope in God, which they themselves also accept, that there will be a resurrection of the dead, both of the just and the unjust.”

"a resurrection" - singular

Romans 2:5-11 “But because of your stubbornness and your unrepentant heart, you are storing up wrath against yourself for the day of God's wrath, when his righteous judgment will be revealed. God ‘will repay each person according to what they have done.’ To those who by persistence in doing good seek glory, honor and immortality, he will give eternal life. But for those who are self-seeking and who reject the truth and follow evil, there will be wrath and anger.”

2 Timothy 4:1 “I charge you therefore before God and the Lord Jesus Christ, who will judge the living and the dead at His appearing and His kingdom:”

Jude 1:14-15 “Now Enoch, the seventh from Adam, prophesied about these men also, saying, ‘Behold, the Lord comes with ten thousands of His saints [holy ones], to execute judgment on all,

Matthew 13:47-50 “So it will be at the end of the age. The angels will come forth, separate the wicked from among the just, and cast them into the furnace of fire. There will be wailing and gnashing of teeth.”

NOTE: The “furnace of fire” is the earth, which “will be burned up” (2 Pet. 3:10).

Revelation 11:15-18 [The seventh angel sounded.] “The kingdoms of this world have become the kingdoms of our Lord and of His Christ, and he shall reign forever and ever!’” [This is Daniel 7:14!] . . . The nations were angry, and your wrath has come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that You should reward Your servants the prophets and the saints, and those who fear Your name, small and great, and should destroy those who destroy the earth.’”

WHEN: When dominion is given to “the Son of man,” the time has arrived to execute judgment on the living and the dead, AND to reward the saints. It’s all at the same time!!

I personally believe that the Second Coming will be Yom Kippur (The Day of Atonement), when Israel was judged. Everyone who had forsaken Covenant without repentance was "cut off" on THAT DAY. The "mixed multitude" was also judged at Yom Kippur. They were not ignorant of the "ways of the LORD."

The "nations" were NOT judged at Yom Kippur. ONLY Israel and the mixed multitude.

The "rest of the dead" are described in Rev. 20 as "nations in the four corners of the earth". I believe these are people who died without enough maturity or information to CHOOSE. They will be resurrected AFTER the 1000 years, to be governed and educated by the "priests of God and of Christ" (the redeemed from the first resurrection), and then they will either choose Christ or rebel (as Gog and Magog).

Revelation 2:26 “And he who overcomes . . . to him I will give power over the nations – He shall rule them with a rod of iron; as the potter’s vessels shall be broken to pieces.”

2 Timothy 2:12 “If we endure, we shall also reign with Him.”

When will we reign over the nations - if not after the 1000 years when "the nations" are resurrected?

Blessings,

Rachel Cory

Prophecy Viewpoint

[joeb]

First off, thank you all for your responses to this query, its something that years ago I would have readily agreed that God would simply judge a person on how they might have responded to the leading of the Holy Spirit towards God the Father. The problem that I am struggling with comes from learning about the actual judgement process as described in the SDA doctrine above. Let me point out that I agree with that doctrine however and have no issue with that.

What I am struggling with is this, if it is so that the Holy Spirit can convict someone to be a good person and have a heart open to God the Father, why did God then need to send Jesus Christ to actually die for people in the first place if there still exists today a second way of Salvation? Whilst I am keen to see how a person may reach God that has never heard of Jesus, it seems to me bewildering in a way that a second way of salvation could exist post the cross of calvary. The question could then be raised for western people in that do they have an out clause in the judgement process in that they may be familiar with Christianity and churches on street corners and so forth, but have no understanding of theology from which to make a decision?

At this stage it seems to be a question that causes me more questions as opposed to answers!