Moderators Gregory Matthews Posted July 6, 2014 Moderators Posted July 6, 2014 A fundamental principle of our government is that people subject to its laws and rules must understand the process. In common with all of the other States, Colorado maintains a department that provides translation services to those who are in a situation where understanding is needed and the English language is not understood. Presently, in Colorado, this department is required to provide translation services for some 200 different languages, as reported today in the DENVER POST. All of these translators are required to be trained and certified as to their proficiency. Quote Gregory
Administrators Naomi Posted July 6, 2014 Administrators Posted July 6, 2014 Impressive, but expensive Quote If your dreams are not big enough to scare you, they are not big enough for God
bonnie Posted July 6, 2014 Posted July 6, 2014 Impressive, but expensive When do immigrants take responsibility for learning the language of the country they chose to come to? While I was waiting to have the paper work completed for knee surgery a woman from mexico was ahead of me. Arrangements had to be made for an interpreter before her paper work could be completed for her surgery. I assumed she was a recent immigrant and had not yet learned english.Turns out she had been here ten years and still was provided an interpreter at 45.00? an hour whenever needed thru her surgery and hospital stay. Quote Everything you do is based on the choices you make. It's not your parents, your past relationships, your job, the economy, the weather, an argument, or your age that is to blame. You and only you are responsible for every decision and choice you make, period ... ... Wish more people would realize this. Quotes by Susan Gottesman
LifeHiscost Posted July 6, 2014 Posted July 6, 2014 Quote: Turns out she had been here ten years and still was provided an interpreter at 45.00? an hour whenever needed thru her surgery and hospital stay. I think God gave ten rules that if all people were to follow, our country would have a lot less problems, even if they kept them because they had to and not because it makes common sense. OTOH the person I find easiest to deal with changing for the better is myself. If I'm going to die of a heart attack, it's not going to be from the stress caused by trying to change everybody else. God cares! Jesus saves! Quote Lift Jesus up!!
bonnie Posted July 6, 2014 Posted July 6, 2014 I think God gave ten rules that if all people were to follow, our country would have a lot less problems, even if they kept them because they had to and not because it makes common sense. OTOH the person I find easiest to deal with changing for the better is myself. If I'm going to die of a heart attack, it's not going to be from the stress caused by trying to change everybody else. God cares! Jesus saves! Not sure who is trying to change everybody else. It was a comment/question in response to the original post. Nor was it an attempt to say"Look at me Lord,I am only trying to change myself" a totally irrelavent comment to either the original post or mine Quote Everything you do is based on the choices you make. It's not your parents, your past relationships, your job, the economy, the weather, an argument, or your age that is to blame. You and only you are responsible for every decision and choice you make, period ... ... Wish more people would realize this. Quotes by Susan Gottesman
Members phkrause Posted July 7, 2014 Members Posted July 7, 2014 I think God gave ten rules that if all people were to follow, our country would have a lot less problems, even if they kept them because they had to and not because it makes common sense. OTOH the person I find easiest to deal with changing for the better is myself. If I'm going to die of a heart attack, it's not going to be from the stress caused by trying to change everybody else.That would go for all nations, not just our country!!! Besides, what does the 10 Cs have to do with interpreters? Quote phkrause When the righteous are in authority, the people rejoice; But when a wicked man rules, the people groan. Proverbs 29;2
LifeHiscost Posted July 7, 2014 Posted July 7, 2014 Quote: Impressive, but expensive I think it had something to do with that comment. I live in an area which has been described by some, in a derogatory way, "California was never meant to be a 'Little Mexico'". I've met a number Latino individuals in passing, while carrying out personal activity downtown, who may or may not have been on food stamps. Some of them approached me (and sometimes vice versa) for a little of my time to give them a negligible amount of help. Using common sense and practicing the golden rule (a take off of the ten)we found our brief encounters making it quite unnecessary to need to hire someone for $45/hr to adequately acquire what we both were in need of, despite the fact that neither of us linguistically understood the other. God cares! Jesus saves! Quote Lift Jesus up!!
bonnie Posted July 7, 2014 Posted July 7, 2014 I think it had something to do with that comment. I live in an area which has been described by some, in a derogatory way, "California was never meant to be a 'Little Mexico'". I've met a number Latino individuals in passing, while carrying out personal activity downtown, who may or may not have been on food stamps. Some of them approached me (and sometimes vice versa) for a little of my time to give them a negligible amount of help. Using common sense and practicing the golden rule (a take off of the ten)we found our brief encounters making it quite unnecessary to need to hire someone for $45/hr to adequately acquire what we both were in need of, despite the fact that neither of us linguistically understood the other. God cares! Jesus saves! Your "brief encounter" doesn't have a thing to do with the topic. Neither is whether someone is on food stamps or not. What I referred to took place in a hospital,hardly somewhere you want to trust your life and health to adequately acquire" what is needed by a "brief encounter" The golden rule cannot compensate for lack of language skills where accuracy and understanding is vital. Nor is the initial hourly rate sufficient. When those that come here from other countries and refuse to learn the language after years forced charity must continue to pay for that refusal. Your "brief encounters" simply are irrelevant. Quote Everything you do is based on the choices you make. It's not your parents, your past relationships, your job, the economy, the weather, an argument, or your age that is to blame. You and only you are responsible for every decision and choice you make, period ... ... Wish more people would realize this. Quotes by Susan Gottesman
Sojourner Posted July 7, 2014 Posted July 7, 2014 In my State in Australia I know of two Seventh Day Adventist churches that are Polish and Cambodian and cater for people that cannot speak English or cannot speak it well in order to Evangelize and provide a spiritual home where these people can feel comfortable. It is my observation that both nationalities along with a number of others settled here because of war. I am not sure about other countries, but in Australia the school system can only be taught in the English Language meaning that often the children speak English well and often interpret for their parents who may struggle in this area. Quote
LifeHiscost Posted July 7, 2014 Posted July 7, 2014 Quote: Your "brief encounters" simply are irrelevant. I am intrigued with "contrasting" truths. It was just a brief encounter when this happened. "Now the serpent was more cunning than any beast of the field which the Lord God had made. And he said to the woman, “Has God indeed said, ‘You shall not eat of every tree of the garden’?” And the woman said to the serpent, “We may eat the fruit of the trees of the garden; but of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God has said, ‘You shall not eat it, nor shall you touch it, lest you die.’” Then the serpent said to the woman, “You will not surely die. For God knows that in the day you eat of it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil.” So when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree desirable to make one wise, she took of its fruit and ate. She also gave to her husband with her, and he ate. Then the eyes of both of them were opened, and they knew that they were naked; and they sewed fig leaves together and made themselves coverings."Gen 3:1-7 NKJV What would the world be like today if different choices had been made by the first parents? Just so, seemingly irrelevant small decisions by individuals who judge others by their immediate circumstances, who are not gathering for God are by contrast, scattering. "The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, God, I thank thee, that I am not as other men are, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this publican."Luke 18:11 KJV It would be interesting to know how you would respond to the ministry, "Celebrating Life in Recovery", with Cheri Peters. http://www.truestep.org/meet-cheri.html God cares! Jesus saves! Quote Lift Jesus up!!
Aliensanctuary Posted July 7, 2014 Posted July 7, 2014 Perhaps we the people should be learning Spanish, instead, in order to help our non-English speaking friends. BTW, LHC, the TrueStep link you shared makes me think of a rude and hostile poster here who seems to enjoy insulting and belittling some of us who share our opinions. We might suspect that she, too, was treated with rudeness and disrespect in her private life. Although it has been tempting to reciprocate, it seems better to step aside so the poisonous darts she fires whiz by and do not hit or harm us. Disparaging and hostile remarks kind of take the fun out of sharing one's ideas, whether they are off topic or irrelevant or not. Quote: I think God gave ten rules that if all people were to follow, our country would have a lot less problems, even if they kept them because they had to and not because it makes common sense. OTOH the person I find easiest to deal with changing for the better is myself. If I'm going to die of a heart attack, it's not going to be from the stress caused by trying to change everybody else. I agree with your viewpoint, LHC, since the 10 C's are the basic rules for this planet, and also for the Kingdom of YHVH. First, of course, is to love, honor, and obey our Creator. Second, is to do no harm to others, or ourselves, and, respect their lives and property, treating them like we would want to be treated. If I found myself broke and alone in China needing medical care, I would be extremely grateful for an interpreter. Over time, I would make an effort to learn the Chinese language, but its far more different from English than Spanish. Perhaps churches or church members should be giving free English lessons to some of the newcomers from south of the border. I recall some young visitors from Guatemala not knowing how to operate a single-lever bathroom faucet. Down there, a shower often means dumping a bucket of cold water on yourself. Quote The Parable of the Lamb and the Pigpen https://www.createspace.com/3401451
bonnie Posted July 7, 2014 Posted July 7, 2014 I am intrigued with "contrasting" truths. It was just a brief encounter when this happened. Just so, seemingly irrelevant small decisions by individuals who judge others by their immediate circumstances, who are not gathering for God are by contrast, scattering. We know it would have been a sinless world.No one judged anyone,except possibly you with your less than subtle postings. A question is not a judgement. When someone comes to this country for the opportunities it can provide that their country cannot,What is their personal responsibility? I don't personally care if a immigrant chooses not to learn english as long as they are capable of caring for their families while refusing to learn. Should the opportunities of this country be seen as never ending government support for those that are mentally and physically capable of helping themselves with the support available? Goes for our own citizens as well. Does it make sense for those that have been here for over a decade relying on the taxpayers to decline the free help to learn engish and instead demanding "free" to them, the costly help of interpreters? Your "irrelevant small decision" doesn't impact the cost of interpreters one fig. Quote Everything you do is based on the choices you make. It's not your parents, your past relationships, your job, the economy, the weather, an argument, or your age that is to blame. You and only you are responsible for every decision and choice you make, period ... ... Wish more people would realize this. Quotes by Susan Gottesman
bonnie Posted July 7, 2014 Posted July 7, 2014 Perhaps we the people should be learning Spanish, instead, in order to help our non-English speaking friends. Quote Everything you do is based on the choices you make. It's not your parents, your past relationships, your job, the economy, the weather, an argument, or your age that is to blame. You and only you are responsible for every decision and choice you make, period ... ... Wish more people would realize this. Quotes by Susan Gottesman
Moderators lazarus Posted July 7, 2014 Moderators Posted July 7, 2014 When do immigrants take responsibility for learning the language of the country they chose to come to? To his credit Thomas Jefferson took the time to learn five native American languages. Ethnic cleansing is harder when you don't speak the language. Quote: While I was waiting to have the paper work completed for knee surgery a woman from mexico was ahead of me.Arrangements had to be made for an interpreter before her paper work could be completed for her surgery. I assumed she was a recent immigrant and had not yet learned english.Turns out she had been here ten years and still was provided an interpreter at 45.00? an hour whenever needed thru her surgery and hospital stay. In everything give thanks! You should be grateful that she didn't believe in "manifest destiny", shoot you dead, take all your stuff and then say God bless Mexico! Quote Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocrities. The latter cannot understand it when a man does not thoughtlessly submit to hereditary prejudices but honestly and courageously uses his intelligence. Einstein
bonnie Posted July 7, 2014 Posted July 7, 2014 To his credit Thomas Jefferson took the time to learn five native American languages. Ethnic cleansing is harder when you don't speak the language. Quote Everything you do is based on the choices you make. It's not your parents, your past relationships, your job, the economy, the weather, an argument, or your age that is to blame. You and only you are responsible for every decision and choice you make, period ... ... Wish more people would realize this. Quotes by Susan Gottesman
Members rudywoofs (Pam) Posted July 7, 2014 Members Posted July 7, 2014 Interpreters for medical centers are very expensive...cost can range somewhere around $70K to over $100K per year. source Not only do the interpreters need to know both languages, but they also MUST be conversant in medical terminology, otherwise miscommunication can result in treatment errors, which can lead to all sorts of lawsuits. While that's certainly not the only reason, it *is* one reason that malpractice insurance for health practitioners and medical centers is so high. source Some places use onsite interpreters who also work in other areas of the medical center, i.e., lab, radiology, or nursing care. I would think that would be the ideal situation. But not always feasible. Using family members as translators is out. Where I worked, translators were available by phone. But the cost today ranges between $2.20-$4.50/minute for medical translating by phone. source That averages out to over $100 for 30 minutes of translating. (Remember, not only does the patient need to understand, but in cases of a pediatric or elderly patient, his/her family must also be included in the translating process and understand.) It's a HUGE expense. And it isn't charged to the specific patient.....guess who ultimately pays for it? Yep, you and me. Quote Pam Meddle Not In the Affairs of Dragons; for You Are Crunchy and Taste Good with Ketchup. If we all sang the same note in the choir, there'd never be any harmony. Funny, isn't it, how we accept Grace for ourselves and demand justice for others?
bonnie Posted July 7, 2014 Posted July 7, 2014 Interpreters for medical centers are very expensive...cost can range somewhere around $70K to over $100K per year. source Not only do the interpreters need to know both languages, but they also MUST be conversant in medical terminology, otherwise miscommunication can result in treatment errors, which can lead to all sorts of lawsuits. While that's certainly not the only reason, it *is* one reason that malpractice insurance for health practitioners and medical centers is so high. source Some places use onsite interpreters who also work in other areas of the medical center, i.e., lab, radiology, or nursing care. I would think that would be the ideal situation. But not always feasible. Using family members as translators is out. Where I worked, translators were available by phone. But the cost today ranges between $2.20-$4.50/minute for medical translating by phone. source That averages out to over $100 for 30 minutes of translating. (Remember, not only does the patient need to understand, but in cases of a pediatric or elderly patient, his/her family must also be included in the translating process and understand.) It's a HUGE expense. And it isn't charged to the specific patient.....guess who ultimately pays for it? Yep, you and me. I don't understand when we decided to absolve immigrants of personal responsibility? Is that what the opportunity of coming to the US has come to mean? When did it become wrong to expect those coming here to learn the skills needed to care for themselves and their families? Quote Everything you do is based on the choices you make. It's not your parents, your past relationships, your job, the economy, the weather, an argument, or your age that is to blame. You and only you are responsible for every decision and choice you make, period ... ... Wish more people would realize this. Quotes by Susan Gottesman
Sojourner Posted July 8, 2014 Posted July 8, 2014 That averages out to over $100 for 30 minutes of translating. (Remember, not only does the patient need to understand, but in cases of a pediatric or elderly patient, his/her family must also be included in the translating process and understand.) It's a HUGE expense. And it isn't charged to the specific patient.....guess who ultimately pays for it? Yep, you and me. So what do you suggest is the alternative? If we as a nation of people provide refugee places to people that cannot speak English, (As God commands us to do in Scripture), does it not follow that we should provide translation services to them that they might understand medical procedures and so forth? How about if they are brought before the legal system, should they have an expectation that any discourse will be in the language that they can understand? Was it not God that confused the languages of people at the building of the tower of Babel? When did it become our responsibility as Christians to enforce an Anglicised version of another language on anyone? Is that not why the Bible Society works so hard to give people copies of the Bible in their own language as opposed to expecting them to learn English in order to read it? Quote
bonnie Posted July 8, 2014 Posted July 8, 2014 So what do you suggest is the alternative? If we as a nation of people provide refugee places to people that cannot speak English, (As God commands us to do in Scripture), does it not follow that we should provide translation services to them that they might understand medical procedures and so forth? How about if they are brought before the legal system, should they have an expectation that any discourse will be in the language that they can understand? Quote Everything you do is based on the choices you make. It's not your parents, your past relationships, your job, the economy, the weather, an argument, or your age that is to blame. You and only you are responsible for every decision and choice you make, period ... ... Wish more people would realize this. Quotes by Susan Gottesman
LifeHiscost Posted July 8, 2014 Posted July 8, 2014 Quote: BTW, LHC, the TrueStep link you shared makes me think of a rude and hostile poster here who seems to enjoy insulting and belittling some of us who share our opinions. We might suspect that she, too, was treated with rudeness and disrespect in her private life. Although it has been tempting to reciprocate, it seems better to step aside so the poisonous darts she fires whiz by and do not hit or harm us. Disparaging and hostile remarks kind of take the fun out of sharing one's ideas, whether they are off topic or irrelevant or not. I all of your post and agreed with your logic. Your ability to see others rude responses as possibly caused from personal damage within their own psyche reveals some deeper spiritual wisdom that I don't always take into consideration in my own answers. Turning the other cheek isn't my best characteristic. I like the bumper sticker quote I once read, "Be patient. The Lord isn't finished with me yet. Keep looking up! God cares! Jesus loves and saves! Quote Lift Jesus up!!
Members rudywoofs (Pam) Posted July 8, 2014 Members Posted July 8, 2014 If we as a nation of people provide refugee places to people that cannot speak English, (As God commands us to do in Scripture), does it not follow that we should provide translation services to them that they might understand medical procedures and so forth? How about if they are brought before the legal system, should they have an expectation that any discourse will be in the language that they can understand? God doesn't command to provide "refugee places" specifically to non-English speaking people. That's absurd. The rest of the above argument is non sequitur... Originally Posted By: Soj Was it not God that confused the languages of people at the building of the tower of Babel? yes... and apparently God did not send in a translator.... Originally Posted By: Soj When did it become our responsibility as Christians to enforce an Anglicised version of another language on anyone? Specifically, what group of Christians is doing that? Originally Posted By: Soj Is that not why the Bible Society works so hard to give people copies of the Bible in their own language as opposed to expecting them to learn English in order to read it? The various Bible societies around the world provide various translations of the Bible to people in various countries who speak various languages. The societies do this because of a scriptural mandate to spread the gospel. There is no scriptural mandate to provide free service to people who could otherwise mitigate their circumstances. In fact, the scriptures state that "Thou shalt not defraud their neighbor, nor rob him." Lev 19:13. Not "defrauding/robbing one's neighbors" should include the mitigating of one's circumstances so that one's neighbors are not unfairly saddled with paying for someone else's debts. Quote Pam Meddle Not In the Affairs of Dragons; for You Are Crunchy and Taste Good with Ketchup. If we all sang the same note in the choir, there'd never be any harmony. Funny, isn't it, how we accept Grace for ourselves and demand justice for others?
bonnie Posted July 8, 2014 Posted July 8, 2014 BTW, LHC, the TrueStep link you shared makes me think of a rude and hostile poster here who seems to enjoy insulting and belittling some of us who share our opinions. We might suspect that she, too, was treated with rudeness and disrespect in her private life. Although it has been tempting to reciprocate, it seems better to step aside so the poisonous darts she fires whiz by and do not hit or harm us. Disparaging and hostile remarks kind of take the fun out of sharing one's ideas, whether they are off topic or irrelevant or not. I all of your post and agreed with your logic. Your ability to see others rude responses as possibly caused from personal damage within their own psyche reveals some deeper spiritual wisdom that I don't always take into consideration in my own answers. Turning the other cheek isn't my best characteristic. I like the bumper sticker quote I once read, "Be patient. The Lord isn't finished with me yet. Keep looking up! God cares! Jesus loves and saves! Obviously you are still taking the path in left field.For some reason you can't or won't commit yourself to an opinion. When immigrants come here.what is their responsibility to the country they have chosen? Is it to demand the privilege of living off the labor of others? Not all do,but there are many that simply want the luxury of the opportunities here without the responsibilities that go with it. Quote Everything you do is based on the choices you make. It's not your parents, your past relationships, your job, the economy, the weather, an argument, or your age that is to blame. You and only you are responsible for every decision and choice you make, period ... ... Wish more people would realize this. Quotes by Susan Gottesman
Administrators Tom Wetmore Posted July 8, 2014 Administrators Posted July 8, 2014 “When a stranger sojourns with you in your land, you shall not do him wrong. You shall treat the stranger who sojourns with you as the native among you, and you shall love him as yourself, for you were strangers in the land of Egypt: I am the LORD your God.” Lev. 19:34-35 Quote "Absurdity reigns and confusion makes it look good." "Sinless perfection is such a shallow goal." "I love God only as much as the person I love the least." *Forgiveness is always good news. And that is the gospel truth. (And finally, the ideas expressed above are solely my person views and not that of any organization with which I am associated.)
CoAspen Posted July 8, 2014 Posted July 8, 2014 Quote: Not all do,but there are many that simply want the luxury of the opportunities here without the responsibilities that go with it. Where is the data to support that? Fact or opinion How many is many? many divided by Total population= % Fact or opinion Quote
Members rudywoofs (Pam) Posted July 8, 2014 Members Posted July 8, 2014 "sojourn" means to visit...not move in and mooch off your host... :) Quote Pam Meddle Not In the Affairs of Dragons; for You Are Crunchy and Taste Good with Ketchup. If we all sang the same note in the choir, there'd never be any harmony. Funny, isn't it, how we accept Grace for ourselves and demand justice for others?
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