The New, Friendly Face of the Papacy

[CGMedley]

Many Adventists are rubbing their eyes in amazement these days: they are seeing a pope who does not fit their image of the antichrist. Do we have to change our interpretation of Revelation 13?

Read More:

http://www.adventistreview.org/141521-26

[pierrepaul]

Remember that a prophet of the Lord once prophesied that a certain city was to be destroyed. The city repented and the city was not destroyed. The prophet then went to sulk.

There is still hope for the Catholic Church. They have taken and are taking small steps toward repentance and reform. And like Nineveh, should the reform ever be complete or become sufficiently advanced that the Lord stays his judgement against the Catholic Church, I would hope that SdAs would praise the Lord and not sulk in the corner like Jonah if it turns out our pet prophecies about the Sunday law and Roman oppression of Adventists never come to pass.

[phkrause]

Very interesting article.

[Octopus]

Pope Francis has been working towards having protestants join hands with catholics.

And peirrepaul what is this "small steps" of repentance and reform your talking about? All I see is them continuing to further lead people towards a false view of what it is to follow God. Ie Tony Palmer giving a charismatic speech to the mixed congregation of supposed christians.

Tony Palmer: "Maybe were now all catholics again"

[Tom Wetmore]

What is that you mean by "a false view of what it is to follow God"?

[Kevin H]

Interesting article. I have things I can say but need to go and spend time with my mom in her rehab before I go to work.

Does this need an either/or answer? Or could it be that our interpretation of Revelation 13 is on the right track but that we have not arrived at the final destination?

Some Adventist thought leaders have tried to build on this, including Stephen Haskell in his "the Story of the Prophet Daniel" and probably the best Adventist commentary on Revelation, George McCredy Price's "The Time of the End." Could we be seeing a much better fulfillment of Revelation 13 when we view it from Price's view than if we insist on making things fit our traditions? Our church tends to let the good books get out of print. Maybe it is time for a reprint and study of Price's book again.

May I recommend to all here to look in leaves of autumn and amazon and where ever they see used books to get a copy of this treasure.

[CGMedley]

You might be interested in knowing that Tony Palmer was recently died in a motorcycle crash.

[rudywoofs (Pam)]

boy, *that* article will make us really popular with our Catholic neighbors...

and I'm not sure why the EGW quote about the Jesuits of yore is applicable today..

[M. T. Cross]

Pump out that Papacy hating propaganda.........

I have a theory, but I am gonna run it past a moderator before posting it here.

[JoeMo]

It's about time to put the whole "pope is the antichrist" thing on the trash heap of religious propoganda. Look at the real world out there, folks - not just the 19th century world according to EGW. There are a lot of forces out there that are a much larger threat to religious freedom than Catholicism.

I'm interested in your theory, MT. If moderators take a dim view of posting it on the public board, please PM me.

[LifeHiscost]

Not sure if there has been anyone pointing to any particular person as the "antichrist", but I would like to say it is a system referred to as opposed to any man, although in the annals of history a person might be seen as responsible for the antichrist if they were equated as that governing power.

However this Scripture indicates the antichrist is more than just an individual.

"Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son. "1 John 2:22 KJV

Jesus saves! God is Love!

[JoeMo]

Quote:

"Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son. "1 John 2:22 KJV

Neither the catholic church nor the papacy denies the Father and the Son. But there is a very large and aggressive religion that does ...

[hch]

Many Adventists are rubbing their eyes in amazement these days: they are seeing a pope who does not fit their image of the antichrist. Do we have to change our interpretation of Revelation 13?

Read More:

http://www.adventistreview.org/141521-26

The article brought a tear to my eye.

We have been blessed with so much light and still know so little.

How can such rubbish get into our publications?

Mixing so much error with a dash of truth makes it all the worse.

[hch]

Not sure if there has been anyone pointing to any particular person as the "antichrist", but I would like to say it is a system referred to as opposed to any man, ...

From September 2011 to September 2012, before it was news, as the Loudcryer,

I posted 8 tweets that Benedict XVI would not be pope after the spring of 2013:

Pope Benedict XVI has but a very short time left (9/3/11)

#Pope Benedict XVI marks his last year with a Latin America

trip that includes a visit to #Cuba (23 March 2012)

With Benedict XVI in his last year,

Who’s going to be the new pope? … (3 April 2012)

Is Pope Benedict going to be pope in 2013? (29 April 2012)

Months ago I tweeted that pope Benedict XVI is a short timer.

Now Vatican power play is news! Y u b last 2 know? (28 May 2012)

If Pope Benedict’s 8th year is really his 7th,

his time ends before May 2013 (7 July 2012)

Pope Benedict’s 8th year is really his 7th,

because his ascension year was John-Paul II’s last year.

Will Benedict XVI’s 7th year B his last (8 August 2012)

Pope #Benedict XVI As I read Daniel’s prophecy,

7’s number of completeness. His ascension year (zero) 2005.

He might last till spring 2013? (30 September 2012)

Pope Benedict announced this morning (Monday February 11, 2013)

that he is resigning as of 28 February 2013.

And now that Benedict XVI has resigned,

Prophecy tells us exactly where Francis I fits.

So while folks believe that the Bible is talking about a system

and not "individuals" when they are shown that the Bible

is talking about individuals as surely as Cyrus was named by name,

the facts don't see the light of day.

Why? Because the people of the book have left the book and started

to follow prophetic models.

If they would go back to the book,

they would know where we are in Bible prophecy

and what individuals are going to be the players in endtime events.

[LifeHiscost]

Neither the catholic church nor the papacy denies the Father and the Son. But there is a very large and aggressive religion that does ...

OTOH, when are we going to bend the truth to the point that we allow the ex-angel Lucifer back into the new Jerusalem in the name of 'Can't we all just get along"?

"For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ.

And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.

Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works."2 Corinthians 11:13-15 KJV

Are we willing to accept Mary, the mother of Jesus, to be co-redemptress along side Jesus?

"Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved."Acts 4:12 KJV

God is Love! Jesus saves!

[LifeHiscost]

We have been blessed with so much light and still know so little.

How can such rubbish get into our publications?

Mixing so much error with a dash of truth makes it all the worse.

"Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus."Rev 14:12 KJV

God is Love! Jesus saves!

[Tom Wetmore]

Pump out that Papacy hating propaganda.........

I have a theory, but I am gonna run it past a moderator before posting it here.

Green light...

[M. T. Cross]

Green light...

Thank you.

So here it is

I grew up in the SDA church. That is to pretty much say that I grew up in an environment of Catholic bashing. It was the great evil, the great Sunday teaching multi-headed beast of Revelations terror and horror. The Pope was the instrument of the dark lord Satan himself.

As I grew older I thought I must have imagined this, but in reality it is still a dominant world view amongst many Seventh Day Adventists. Their level of conspiracy based paranoia, hatred, fear and just plain old mean spirit of and for the Roman Catholic Church is astounding.

It has made me wonder. If "The Church" really is the Holy Earthly institute of the Biblical God(s), then would it not make sense that the enemy of this institute might inspire these kinds of thoughts toward it. Is it possible that it is the Devil himself that is causing these dark and spiteful feelings? I know the first response to this is that the teachings of the Church are not Scripturally sound. But again, is it possible that the Devil has twisted this about? I mean we are all taught that no-one knows the Bible better than Satan. Not only has he had a lot of time to study it, he was there for all of it. In fact it could be argued that he is the main character in it. So it could easily be argued that he indeed could be twisting Gods true word to be misunderstood. He could have been doing this since Martin Luther - or before. What if, ponder this, maybe the spirit that is leading the charge against the great SDA beast is........ well, the Beast. It would be an amazing deflection.

[CoAspen]

Could you clarify you last few sentences? Just want to make sure I understand what you are saying.

Thanks

[M. T. Cross]

It seems to me that many SDA's think that the Beast in Revelations is the RCC (so I called it the SDA Beast) and I am suggesting that maybe its the Devil (as the Beast) that is leading that train of thought. It would be a good way to deflect the truth.

[LifeHiscost]

Quote:

So while folks believe that the Bible is talking about a system

and not "individuals" when they are shown that the Bible

is talking about individuals as surely as Cyrus was named by name, the facts don't see the light of day.

And in the last events just before Jesus comes, when it is made clear there will be so much deceitful information, God did not decide to give us any name to make it clear?????

"For this ye know, that no whoremonger, nor unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, hath any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God.

Let no man deceive you with vain words: for because of these things cometh the wrath of God upon the children of disobedience.

Be not ye therefore partakers with them." Eph 5:5-7 KJV

" Now thanks be unto God, which always causeth us to triumph in Christ, and maketh manifest the savour of his knowledge by us in every place. For we are unto God a sweet savour of Christ, in them that are saved , and in them that perish : To the one we are the savour of death unto death; and to the other the savour of life unto life. And who is sufficient for these things? "2 Cor 2:14-16 KJV

God is Love! Jesus save!

[Gail]

Don't be surprised if the enemy turns out to be more than a system or any one person. In John's day there were many antichrists.

[LifeHiscost]

Don't be surprised if the enemy turns out to be more than a system or any one person. In John's day there were many antichrists.

"Fear not, for I am with you; Be not dismayed, for I am your God. I will strengthen you ...

Isaiah 41:10 NKJV.

God is Love! Jesus saves!

[Kevin H]

Historisism is how God has led his church. However traditionally it was flexible with seeing some applications as wrong and modifying base on more knowledge of the scriptures and evaluating the applications.

This came under attack in the mid 1800s with Modernism that saw the text as merely taking about historical events and thus not having any meaning for us. Or by futurism which has it all placed in the future and the saints raptured away and the Jews fulfilling all the old prophecies in the land. Also, in the later half of the 1800s and early 1900s the idea of Fundamentalism arose.

We have taken a Fundamentalist approach to our understandings. Our views were developed over history but last updated in a series of Bible Conferences in the late 1700s and early 1800s. But due to Modernism, Dispensationalist and Fundamentalism we have killed further growth. Most scholars are either Modernists or Dispensationalists, and we have used Fundamentalism to set where we were 200 years ago in cement and instead of building on this foundation we have made a graven image of their discoveries and have that be the point of arrival, the spot where we can go no further.

Yet this grew out of the end of the dark ages. A big part of the Investigative Judgment that our church claims to believe is the explosion in Biblical knowledge since the middle of the 1800s. Is where we were 200 years ago, before Jesus entered the most Holy to reveal more about the scriptures than we could have ever known before, really the last word? Did the job of the Holy Spirit to lead us into all truth end back then?

Two equal dangers is to say 1) the applications to the papacy is out of date so we should give them up. or 2) make the papacy the WHOLE beast as we tend to do in our traditions. At the end of the Dark Ages the Papacy was still the center of their world so of course the Holy Spirit would be especially loud in pointing out the papacy to those scholars.

Again, I've referred to George McGready Price's "The Time of the End" which is the only book written that has been a building on to this knowledge instead of either rehashing the findings of 200 years ago, or throwing it away for Modernism or Dispensationalism. Some professors have given lectures that have built on, but Prices book is the only book that builds on it.

The beast is ANY ORGINIZED group that we have replace Jesus in our lives over history represented by the 7 heads: Babylon, Medio-Persia, Greece, Rome, The Holy Roman Empire (with the Papacy having a major role) the deadly wound (no great world empire but a time of independent nations. the crowns are on the 10 horns, not the head, which is and is not and is yet to be) but a 7th head coming. Studying Revelation 18 we learn that this last head will be an economic and corporate empire, different from the geopolitical and religious powers of the past. Too many of us are expecting a return to the 5th head rather than there being a 7th head.

Meanwhile we are seeing a growing military industrial economic state of multinational corporate cartels developing. The papacy is playing a major role in this as being the moral voice of this growing empire.

If we look for a return of the 5th head, as we tend to do, we will miss it. If we look for the 7th head and aware that the papacy tends to have a history of usually siding with the wrong side we might catch what is happening. I have more to say but I'm tired.

[LifeHiscost]

An interesting take on last day events taken from this web page, is that Pope Francis will be pressured out and Benedict will return. From other miscellaneous info this seems to fit but is open for discussion.

http://www.666man.net/

The most interesting link is

Quote:

Update On Popes Benedict XVI and Francis

.

God is Love! Jesus saves!