About The 70-Week Prophecy

[Samie]

Hi, Bro. Jackson;

I decided to start this thread in deference to 8thdaypriest's concern the issue we discuss clutters her thread with our discussion.

Originally Posted By: Samie

One must be ready to defend his position via Scriptures rather than evade it, as you seem to do now. You posted, and objections came. Instead of addressing the objections, you simply insisted you are right, and that objectors to your position are simply dreaming.

To me, that's one sign of a closed mind, and a futile attempt to cover up what is indefensible from Scriptures.

I am sorry that I do not have a lot of time to refute every objection to the Adventist position on the 70 weeks of Daniel. I assure you though that over the years I have heard most of the objections and have found none that, after close scrutiny, had any real merit.

I realize it is not polite to not answer objections to one's posts, and I will take more time in the future to answer.

[Samie]

It is not relevant what Ezra liked most about the decree, but rather what Artaxerxes actually decreed.

[Samie]

Samie. The Bible is inspired. When Artaxerxes makes a decree, it is the contents of that decree that are relevant not Ezra's comments about it.

[Ron Amnsn]

6.The middle of the 70th week is the end of Jesus' ministry and the last half of the 70th week ends the dispensation of the Jews with the stoning of Stephen, and the gospel being taken to the gentiles.

I've heard this interpretation many times, but when we try to verify it in Scripture, we come up short. God's Word doesn't speak about an end to a "dispensation of the Jews". What God says is that he will honor his covenant with the Israelites, not because of what they do, but for his own name's sake. And God said that through Jeremiah after He already knew how unfaithful the Jews were. Those who teach that God is done with the Jews seem to be teaching that God doesn't keep his word nor honor his Covenants.

In the New Jerusalem the gates have names written on them (Rev 21:12). Are those names the names of the Gentile nations, or the names of the divisions of the SDA church, or the names of the tribes of Israel? Why is that?

[Kevin H]

Good points Ron, but the two views are NOT mutually exclusive.

There is an excellent chapter in the Seventh-day Adventist Bible Commentary called "the Role of Israel in Old Testament Prophecy"

Deuteronomy 4 has two plans for God to use his people. The first is through the land, where they were in quite literally the center of the world, the major intersection of all the great trade routes from Africa, Europe and Asia. They could live there faithfully, been blessed, nations wonder why they were blessed with their simple religion instead of all the elaborate worship of the gods that others were doing. The Hebrews could then share their God and nations would either join them or reject them and the world end in a great eschatological war.

The other plan is if they were not faithful there would be curses to encourage them to change. The final curse would be exile. In exile they were to share with their neighbors their unfaithfulness but God's faithfulness. And the exile would end up being the last days ending with a second great exodus lead by the messiah. (there are additional details you find in other parts of the Bible.)

In Joshua they got the land. They had David as king and there was a 70 weeks of years period from David to the end of the exile. Daniel 2-7 expected the exile to end with the Messiah coming to take them home. Daniel 9-12 was that they were going to return to land theology for another 70 weeks of years in a lack luster exodus, not lead by the Messiah but how after the 69 weeks the messiah would come and it tells how to prepare for the messiah and things that could have happened had Jesus been accepted. There would not have needed to have been a second coming as Jesus could have set up the kingdom after the resurrection (which would have been after 3 1/2 years in the tomb if they followed faithfully)

As we know Jesus was not accepted. Jesus was able to do some of the things predicted. But the time in the grave was shortened to 3 days and there was a need for the second coming. And essentially we returned to the plans Deuteronomy 4 has given for how God would use his people in exile. Even the land of Israel is no longer the center of the world like it once was. In the land it is God will bless you and the nations will join you. In Exile it's "Go ye into all the world and spread the Gospel"

God has not given up on his people. We see him working through some who are more cooperative such as Rabbi Abraham Joshua Heshel and others. And we will see more as we get closer to the end.

The 70 weeks could have ended differently. But the stoning of Stephen is a turning point to start to prepare God's people from the "Stay in the land, be blessed and let the world come to you" plan of Deuteronomy 4 to the "Go ye into all the world" how God would use his people in exile and this exile will end with the second great exodus lead by the Messiah at the second coming.

[Ron Amnsn]

the two views are NOT mutually exclusive.

The Old Testament does repeatedly speak of the exile of Israelites and the return to the land. Those were the terms of the covenant that God made with Israel at Sinai, the covenant that God has promised to honor. That's the same covenant contained in the Ark of his Covenant that is seen in heaven in Revelation 11:19.

The Scriptures never speak of an end to "a dispensation of the Jews".

[8thdaypriest]

This is off-topic, but while I have you I will ask.

I have a friend who is DNA Jewish, but believes Yeshua is Messiah. She has tried repeatedly to send via email my website Prophecy Viewpoint, to her aunt who lives in Israel. The website name and address are deleted from each email when her aunt receives it.

She also tried to send my book "The 8th Day" - twice - and each time the book mysteriously disappeared from her package.

Her aunt keeps asking, "What website?"

Sharon believes the Israeli security is deleting the name and removed the book.

Has anyone here had this type of experience??

[Samie]

One of the highlights given to the 70-week prophecy is the baptism of Jesus which supposedly occurred in 27 AD, 483 years from 457 BC.

But Scriptures (Luke 3:1,21) tell us Jesus was baptized in the 15th year of Tiberius' reign as emperor and history shows that the first year of Tiberius' reign was in 14 AD. His 2nd year was 15 AD, third year in 16 AD... and his 15th year would be in 28 AD.

Proponents of 27AD baptism of Jesus may want to clarify.

[Samie]

Originally Posted By: Samie

.What you call "Ezra's comments" are what the Bible says and are inspired but which you consider irrelevant, commenting upon them as mere "Ezra's comments". Yet Scriptures EXPLICITLY say it was what God put into the heart of Artaxerxes: to BEAUTIFY the temple.

But what you fail to admit is that that is not all that God put into Artaxerxes heart.

[hch]

...

Jesus was not baptized in 27 AD, the year supposedly pointed to by Dan 9:24-27 as His baptism year. Instead, Jesus was baptized in 28 AD, the 15th year of Tiberius reign as emperor, as the Bible itself testifies (Luke 3:1, 21). History tells us Tiberius year 1 as emperor was 14 AD. Year 2 would be 15 AD..., and Year 15 would therefore be 28 AD, NOT 27 AD.

[Samie]

Originally Posted By: Samie

There's NONE in the whole decree about restoration and rebuilding of Jerusalem, only BEAUTIFICATION of the temple, as EXPLICITLY recorded by Ezra. I have asked you for Scriptures that says "setting of magistrates" = "restoration and rebuilding" and so far you have given NONE, other than your own words.

Ezra 7:25 And thou, Ezra, after the wisdom of thy God, that [is] in thine hand, set magistrates and judges, which may judge all the people that [are] beyond the river, all such as know the laws of thy God ; and teach ye them that know [them] not.

7:26 And whosoever will not do the law of thy God, and the law of the king, let judgment be executed speedily upon him, whether [it be] unto death, or to banishment, or to confiscation of goods, or to imprisonment.

Now does that sound like beautifying the temple or beginning the restoration of Jerusalem by the Jews and for the Jews?

[Samie]

Continued from last post

The year of Jesus' baptism/anointing;

Luke 3:1 Now in the fifteenth year of the reign of Tiberius Caesar,

3:21 Now when all the people were baptized, it came to pass, that Jesus also being baptized, and praying, the heaven was opened,

So Jesus was baptized in the 15th year of Tiberius Caesar, but when did Tiberius begin to rule?

Tiberius was adopted by Caesar Augustus in AD 4, after Augustus’ two surviving heirs died. . Ten years after this, Augustus died (A.D. 14) and Tiberius became Ceasar. This AD 14 date is doubly confirmed by a Lunar eclipse which was recorded by various Roman historians,

If Tibeerious first began to rule at the death of Augustus in AD 14 then his 15th year would be AD 28.

[Samie]

Originally Posted By: Samie

...

Jesus was not baptized in 27 AD, the year supposedly pointed to by Dan 9:24-27 as His baptism year. Instead, Jesus was baptized in 28 AD, the 15th year of Tiberius reign as emperor, as the Bible itself testifies (Luke 3:1, 21). History tells us Tiberius year 1 as emperor was 14 AD. Year 2 would be 15 AD..., and Year 15 would therefore be 28 AD, NOT 27 AD.

Augustus “dictated a law by which the future prince [Tiberius] was invested with an authority equal to his own, over the provinces and the armies.” (Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire, vol 1. p.30.)"

"Tiberius was Emperor over the province of Judea, even while Augustus was still living. His reign began in AD 12, and so the 15th year of Tiberius was indeed AD 27."

Have you considered this historical fact in your calculations?

[Samie]

Originally Posted By: Samie

Proponents of Dan 9:24-27 teach that the phrase "he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease" points to Christ's death on the cross. Here's the problem:

NIV Daniel 9:27 He will confirm a covenant with many for one 'seven.' In the middle of the 'seven' he will put an end to sacrifice and offering. And on a wing of the temple he will set up an abomination that causes desolation, until the end that is decreed is poured out on him."

Notice that he who puts an end to sacrifice and offering will also set up the abomination of desolation, this latter act is attributed to someone against God in Dan 11:31, 36.

NIV Daniel 11:

31 "His armed forces will rise up to desecrate the temple fortress and will abolish the daily sacrifice. Then they will set up the abomination that causes desolation.

36 The king will do as he pleases. He will exalt and magnify himself above every god and will say unheard-of things against the God of gods. He will be successful until the time of wrath is completed, for what has been determined must take place.

Clearly, the Bible teaches that the acts stipulated in Dan 9:27 cannot be attributed to our Lord & Savior.

When Christ's Sacrifice is understood, as a partial fulfillment of this prophecy, this problem is not really a problem.

There is a final endtime fulfillment that fits all the criteria noted.

Are you saying the partial fulfillment is PRO-God, while the final fulfillment is ANTI-God?

[Samie]

This is a continuation from my posts above.

The Dispensation of the Jews

Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city,.....

Dan 9:24

So from 457 BC until AD 34 God had given to the Jews 490 years to confirm the covenant he made with them. A 70 times 7 period of grace.

During this time the gospel was to go only to the Jews, i.e. the lost sheep of the house of Israel (Matt 10:5-6; 15:24 and Acts 11:19)

Dan 9:27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease.....

Jesus was sacrificed 3 and a half years into his ministry (midst of the 70th prophetic week, and of course that would be when the temple sacrifices and oblations would cease no longer having any significance or relevance.

[hch]

Samie,

You completely missed the point that my research unearthed

Jesus was not baptized in 27 AD, the year supposedly pointed to by Dan 9:24-27 as His baptism year. Instead, Jesus was baptized in 28 AD, the 15th year of Tiberius reign as emperor, as the Bible itself testifies (Luke 3:1, 21). History tells us Tiberius year 1 as emperor was 14 AD. Year 2 would be 15 AD..., and Year 15 would therefore be 28 AD, NOT 27 AD.

[hch]

There is a final endtime fulfillment that fits all the criteria noted.

[Samie]

Hi Bro Henry;

From 12 AD, the 15th year would be 26 AD, NOT 27 AD.

You said his ascension year was 12 AD, how come his first year of reign was 13 AD?

If a Jew was born Sunday, the 8th day would be the next Sunday, the day of his circumcision. You first attended class Monday PM and continuously till Friday. Another student first attended Monday AM. Yet, both of you have Monday as your first day in school, NOT Tuesday.

Do not EXCLUDE the initial year in your count. That is the first year of his reign. Whether he reigned for a day, a month, a quarter, or a semester in 12 AD, that was his first year.

[Samie]

Originally Posted By: Samie

Are you saying the partial fulfillment is PRO-God, while the final fulfillment is ANTI-God?

Please restate your question. I do not understand what you are asking.

[Samie]

...

This prophecy of Daniel had its perfect fulfillment in the baptism, ministry and death of the Messiah as well as the end of the Jewish dispensation.

...... "but the wise shall understand." Dan 12:10

[phkrause]

Here's Kenneth Cox on this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KcCLDcQpjo8

[Samie]

Hi Bro Jackson;

Our Lord Jesus Christ was referring to THE Abomination of Desolation spoken of by Daniel the prophet that is FUTURE to the period He was then in. As such, your FIRST application of AoD does not qualify, having occurred BEFORE Daniel's & Jesus' time.

Your SECOND application of the AoD as having occurred "when Titus's army besieged Jerusalem and desolated the temple" also fails the test of Scriptures. Scriptures say that he who puts an end to sacrifice and offering will also be responsible for setting up the AoD. In your SECOND application, it was Jesus who by His death put an end to sacrifice and offering but it was Titus who set up the AoD. Also, the time period separating the stoppage of sacrifices and offerings from the setting up of the AoD is 1290 days as per Dan 12:11. There is neither 1290 days nor 1290 years that separate 31 AD from 70 AD. Mismatch.

Your THIRD application of the AoD refers to a PLURAL or multiple fulfillment having occurred as you said "after the 1260 days/42 months prophecy as found in Dan 12:11 and repeated in Rev 11:2 and 13:5" and that THESE "abominations will be complete when most of Christendom wonders after the beast and received his mark". As such, your THIRD application also fails Scriptural specs because our Lord was referring to a SINGULAR AoD spoken of by Daniel the prophet. His words (KJV Matt 24:15): "the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet". "abomination" from the Greek "bdelugma", noun accusative neuter singular. NOT the plural "bdelugmata".

But you are correct when you said:

When you come to see that the plain words of scripture, comparing verse with verse. run completely counter to your cherished beliefs then it is wise to reevaluate your beliefs. It is not wise to try to fit scripture to match your beliefs.

[hch]

Are you saying the partial fulfillment is PRO-God, while the final fulfillment is ANTI-God?

Never looked at it that way. But if he sits in the temple as god saying that he is God, it would fit. Wouldn't it?

[hch]

Hi Bro Henry;

From 12 AD, the 15th year would be 26 AD, NOT 27 AD.

You said his ascension year was 12 AD, how come his first year of reign was 13 AD?

If a Jew was born Sunday, the 8th day would be the next Sunday, the day of his circumcision. You first attended class Monday PM and continuously till Friday. Another student first attended Monday AM. Yet, both of you have Monday as your first day in school, NOT Tuesday.

Do not EXCLUDE the initial year in your count. That is the first year of his reign. Whether he reigned for a day, a month, a quarter, or a semester in 12 AD, that was his first year.

 

Samie you wrote: "If a Jew was born Sunday, the 8th day would be the next Sunday, the day of his circumcision."

 

Are you saying that if we go to Church on Sabbath, the 8th day would be the next Sabbath, the day we return to church?

 

If your logic works with Sunday, but it does not work with Sabbath, there must be something faulty with the logic.

 

If you were born in 2012--- how old are you in 2013? 1 year old?

If you were born in 2012--- how old will you be in 2027?  15 years old?

 

It works that way for the 15th year of Tiberius also

 

I am praying for you Samie

[Samie]

Samie you wrote: "If a Jew was born Sunday, the 8th day would be the next Sunday, the day of his circumcision."

 

Are you saying that if we go to Church on Sabbath, the 8th day would be the next Sabbath, the day we return to church?

 

If your logic works with Sunday, but it does not work with Sabbath, there must be something faulty with the logic.

 

If you were born in 2012--- how old are you in 2013? 1 year old?

If you were born in 2012--- how old will you be in 2027?  15 years old?

 

It works that way for the 15th year of Tiberius also

 

I am praying for you Samie

The issue is where to start and where to end the count.

Starting the count with 2012,

Year 1 is 2012

Year 2 is 2013

Year 3 is 2014

...

Year 14 is 2025

Year 15 is 2026

Year 16 is 2027

 

Counting the age, when one is born 201 2, He is 15 years old come 2027.

Hope you understand this simple grade school lesson in reckoning time periods.

 

Thanks for your prayer for me, my brother. Looks like you needed that more than I do. I'll FAST & PRAY for you.