For those who do not drink Alcohol.

[Bravus]

I'm not advocating alcohol, just truth. The truth is, there are risks to using alcohol. Those risks mean that choosing abstinence is a prudent and laudable choice.

There are also benefits. A truthful consideration weighs the risks versus the benefits, and makes a decision. Focusing only on the risks is not, in my view, honest.

Cars, for example, have both risks and benefits. The number of people killed by cars is enormous. Most of us decide that the benefits outweigh the risks. Some do not, and avoid  using cars. But deciding to avoid using cars by looking *only* at the risks is unbalanced, and advocating avoiding using cars on that basis is not honest.

Perhaps it's just imprecision - and, to be fair, the thread did ask for your reasons for avoiding alcohol. But being able to say 'on balance, I choose to avoid alcohol' is a better position than saying 'alcohol is poison and no-one should use it'.

Cars are dangerous, and no-one should use them.

[Woody]

One thing I've noticed about Bravus .... for some reason .... he is always after the truth.

[CoAspen]

Well, thanks Bravus............for the longer explanation!!

[Lauralea]

I first stopped because I had a family member who was an alcoholic and I had stomach problems after drinking  and read that these were risk factors for problem drinking. Then I drank occasionally a few years later. Then I became an Adventist and stopped again for religious reasons. Then I got a Masters in Nutrition and did research on alcohol in graduate school. About 14 percent of drinkers have problems with drinking too heavily at times (binge drinking) , and women who drink more than 3 drinks a week raise their risk of breast cancer 20%, or up to 40% with 3 drinks a day. Also, it raises the risk of spousal and child abuse, becoming a homicide victim, killing someone... I could go on. And then there are motor vehicle and industrial accidents. Studies by the World Health Organization show that in no country, out of 20 countries I think it was that were surveyed, is higher alcohol consumption by a society associated with lower risk of death and in most it increased the risk of death in the society as a whole significantly. Of course, it could be someone else's death , and this is one reason that health studies about alcohol which do not take into account the effect on the population as a whole do not give the entire picture. 

[JoeMo]

Statistics show that there are more alcohol related deaths than death by all other recreational drugs combined.

[LifeHiscost]

Cars are dangerous, and no-one should use them.

I heard a story some time back (not the truth, Bravus) about this genie that offered to the holder of the bottle the genie was in, that if the holder of the bottle would let him, the genie, out of the bottle, (this was before seat belts were mandatory) he would give him, (the holder of the bottle) untold riches and the attendant means of travel beyond his (the holder of the bottle) wildest expectations. All that would be expected in return was 25,000 human sacrifices yearly.

 

Leave it up to the selfishness of humanity to accept the agreement.

 

God is Love! Jesus saves!

[LifeHiscost]

There are also benefits.

5"For God knows that in the day you eat from it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil." 6When the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was a delight to the eyes, and that the tree was desirable to make one wise, she took from its fruit and ate; and she gave also to her husband with her, and he ate. Gen 3:5-6

 

God is Love! Jesus saves!

[Windsor]

There is a strong misconception here that Christ drank alcohol. This is not the teaching of the Adventist church or the Bible. Did the same God who inspired the words of Solomon ("wine is a mocker"), create more posion for a wedding party? Did the same God who commanded Hannah and Samson to never so much as taste strong drink imbibe it Himself? Did the same God who refused alcohol while dying on a cross accept it at a party? The fate of every human being depended on Christ's perfect obedience to the law. Yet some here teach that He decided to risk falling into sin by loosening His inhibitions through alcohol. That sounds like slander which when speaking of God is actually blasphemy.

[Ava]

There is a strong misconception here that Christ drank alcohol. This is not the teaching of the Adventist church or the Bible. Did the same God who inspired the words of Solomon ("wine is a mocker"), create more posion for a wedding party? Did the same God who commanded Hannah and Samson to never so much as taste strong drink imbibe it Himself? Did the same God who refused alcohol while dying on a cross accept it at a party? The fate of every human being depended on Christ's perfect obedience to the law. Yet some here teach that He decided to risk falling into sin by loosening His inhibitions through alcohol. That sounds like slander which when speaking of God is actually blasphemy.

Amen

 

I do not drink because I choose to follow what my Lord and Saviour would do.

 

And after that I would choose not to because of what I have seen it do to people personally. Everyone has freewill to make the choices they do in life. What a shame it will be when our Lord and Saviour comes in the clouds to take His children home to be with Him and the Heavenly family forever, only to find out that we will not be "going up" to meet Him in the air because we chose to believe that drinking just a small amount is ok. Or have kept on doing anything that would separate us from Jesus.

 

Ava

[LynnDel]

When I was in third gradein Ohio, our teacher told us all about the WCTU (Women's Christian Temperance Union). She offered us the opportunity to sign an abstinence promise, which I gladly did, I being a very consciencious sort of child. Probably that promise is what has kept me from drinking alcohol, though I have more recently tasted champagne (didn't like it) and very expensive chardonnay (so-so). Now my main reason for not getting into it is the unnecessary calories. I don't drink much in the way of fruit juice either, since I feel better if I don't; water is my favorite drink, and we have really good water around here.

[Windsor]

Just a small correction. I mentioned Hannah. Now although she vowed not to shave Samuel's head when making her petition for a child, there was no thus saith the Lord about not drinking (I don't know if she made that petition based on the command to Samson's mother). However she was quite upset when Eli assumed she was drinking and implied that only daughters of Belial drank.

[LifeHiscost]

 we have really good water around here.

I recall living for a short time in the town just over the CA border in Oregon and the water was terrible. What part of Oregon do you live in. We use a distiller here in Calif for drinking and cooking.

Gotta hurry we're almost late Ten miles to town.

 

God is Love!

[rudywoofs (Pam)]

lots of spring water sources in central Oregon... better than much of the rest of Oregon

[whbae]

I tried. I do not like the feeling.  Out of  control type of feeling.  Similar to taking narcotic pain killer such as Vicodin. Not for me!

[Lauralea]

Alcohol also increases the risk of other cancer including head and neck cancer. Those who have this cancer may need painful disfiguring surgery and their quality of life is affected. It becomes difficult to eat and they may live with the side effects for a lifetime. Since statistics look at mortality (death rates) but not usually morbidity (disease rates) when looking at alcohol use, they do not take into account those who get cancer as a result of alcohol and live, but this is not a pleasant diagnosis. We had a patient come in when I was in graduate school at Loma Linda, before I transferred to Andrews due to allergies, with this condition, and even though he would have been counted as alive in the statistics, there are much better ways to live;

[GoLions]

I did not grow up in the SDA church, but from a different denomination.  They taught that it was OK to eat unclean foods and drink alcohol.  My Dad would have 1 strong drink every night before bed.  I however drank more than that in high school, then the Navy, then as a productive member of society.  I see drinking alcohol as a very selfish act, when you drink it, you are thinking only about yourself.  In no way does it help someone else when you are drinking it.

 

I then started to attend (not join) the Adventist church.  Within 3 weeks I believe I stopped or decided to stop drinking alcohol.  Thing is that no one told me I should quit except the Holy Spirit, and he was very convincing.  I now tell people that it was probably the best thing I have ever done.

 

I now notice people who call themselves Christian, saying that smoking dope is OK because God made it, so it must be OK.  Which is the same reasoning they make for eating unclean food and drinking alcohol.  I suppose the make the same assumptions reguarding how the dress (or lack of dressing at all).

[CoAspen]

A general statement.........

 

Lets try to totally honest about the issue. I respect anyone not desiring to have a drink, quitting or never had one.  Many products, foods, environment, etc can contribute to different types of diseases. Some may enhance the risk. Smoking is a large factor in lung cancer, but people get lung cancer without ever having smoked.

 

Lets be careful in our comments about letting judgement set in about a persons Christianity or salvation aspects.

[LynnDel]

LHC, the water here recently won recognition as being the best water in the state. It certainly tastes very good.

[Woody]

Right on Sweetie.

Our local water system was rated the best in the state through statewide testing.

And Oregon has some mighty good water.

[GoLions]

A general statement.........

 

Lets try to totally honest about the issue. I respect anyone not desiring to have a drink, quitting or never had one.  Many products, foods, environment, etc can contribute to different types of diseases. Some may enhance the risk. Smoking is a large factor in lung cancer, but people get lung cancer without ever having smoked.

 

Lets be careful in our comments about letting judgement set in about a persons Christianity or salvation aspects.

Make no mistake about this.  By Grace alone we are saved.  By faith alone do we except salvation.  The Bible alone contains all that we need to know in reguards to our salvation.  Christ alone, it is through Jesus Christ that we have a mediator between God and man.  Glory to God alone.  Let no one glory in himself. 

Be careful in this.  The Bible has a lot to say about how we should live, don't disreguard this important point.  After all, that is where we get all the other teachings.

[LifeHiscost]

Make no mistake about this.  By Grace alone we are saved.  By faith alone do we except(do you mean accept?) salvation.  The Bible alone contains all that we need to know in reguards to our salvation.  Christ alone, it is through Jesus Christ that we have a mediator between God and man.  Glory to God alone.  Let no one glory in himself. 

Be careful in this.  The Bible has a lot to say about how we should live, don't disreguard this important point.  After all, that is where we get all the other teachings.

 

parenthesis mine LHC

I happen to believe very firmly in what you are stating here, and I am also a believer in all ten of God's commandments, including the one He said to remember. However to disregard that our behavior is important and can be practiced according to "Do what thou will." and still expect a heavenly home is a sure way to enter the broad way to destruction. To fail to carry the message of deliverance from behaviors contrary to the narrow way is to become complicit in the destruction of souls, as the enemy of souls would have it.

 

◄ Ezekiel 33:3-9 ►

  1And the word of the LORD came to me, saying, 2“Son of man, speak to the sons of your people and say to them, ‘If I bring a sword upon a land, and the people of the land take one man from among them and make him their watchman,3and he sees the sword coming upon the land and blows on the trumpet and warns the people, 4then he who hears the sound of the trumpet and does not take warning, and a sword comes and takes him away, his blood will be on his own head. 5‘He heard the sound of the trumpet but did not take warning; his blood will be on himself. But had he taken warning, he would have delivered his life.

 

6But if the watchman sees the sword coming and does not blow the trumpet and the people are not warned, and a sword comes and takes a person from them, he is taken away in his iniquity, but his blood I will require from the watchman's hand. 

7“Now as for you, son of man, I have appointed you a watchman for the house of Israel; so you will hear a message from My mouth and give them warning from Me. 8“When I say to the wicked, ‘O wicked man, you will surely die,’ and you do not speak to warn the wicked from his way, that wicked man shall die in his iniquity, but his blood I will require from your hand. 9“But if you on your part warn a wicked man to turn from his way and he does not turn from his way, he will die in his iniquity, but you have delivered your life.

 

God is Love! Jesus saves!

[phkrause]

GP, have seen many studies done on Health benefits and non benefits of Wine. What I've notice the most is in most studies the benefits of wine comes from the grapes that are in there. Also in most if not all studies done on diseases, and you want to get better, etc., the first things that they all call for, is to stop smoking and stop drinking caffeine, and right there with those two is to stop drinking alcohol. I don't believe I've ever read a actual health report stating to drink and smoke for better health. Have seen a few health reports and studies that claim some benefits of drinking wine, but again the benefit comes from the grapes, and not the alcohol. And lets not forget that there are many different kinds of drinks that have alcohol, not just wine. By the way this is not a discourse for or against drinking.

[LifeHiscost]

LHC, the water here recently won recognition as being the best water in the state. It certainly tastes very good.

It was probably 40 years ago so my memory may not serve me well but Medford strikes a chord. I was working temporarily in a wood remanufacturing plant, living in a motel temporarily when it was still $5 per night. I'm sure there have been a lot of changes since then.

 

God is Love! Jesus saves!   

[LifeHiscost]

I don't believe I've ever read a actual health report stating to drink and smoke for better health. Have seen a few health reports and studies that claim some benefits of drinking wine, but again the benefit comes from the grapes, and not the alcohol. And lets not forget that there are many different kinds of drinks that have alcohol, not just wine. By the way this is not a discourse for or against drinking.

Do you remember when major advertising  said, "More doctors smoke Camels". If you're old enough, this may be of interest to you.

 

 

Do you think they had an agenda, like making money? The more things change, the more they stay the same.

 

God is Love! Jesus saves!

[Gail]

Very interesting discussion!