the theme is "Performancism"

[rudywoofs (Pam)]

"It’s been growing over the last few decades. And to be honest, it’s a troubling theme.

And if this current generation of worship leaders doesn’t change this theme, then corporate worship in evangelicalism really is headed for a major crash.

 

"It’s the theme of performancism.

The worship leader as the performer.

The congregation as the audience.

The sanctuary as the concert hall.

It really is a problem. It really is a thing. And we really can’t allow it to become the norm.

 

"Worship leaders, we must identify and kill performancism while we can.

It’s not rocket science.

Sing songs people know (or can learn easily). Sing them in congregational keys.

Sing and celebrate the power, glory and salvation of God.

Serve your congregation. Saturate them with the word of God.

Get your face off the big screen (here’s why).

Use your original songs in extreme moderation (here’s why).

Err on the side of including as many people as possible in what’s going on.

Keep the lights up.

 

"Stop talking so much.

Don’t let loops/lights/visuals become your outlet for creativity at the expense of the centrality of the gospel.

Point to Jesus. Don’t draw attention to yourself.

Don’t sing songs with bad lyrics or weak theology.

Tailor your worship leading, and the songs you pick, to include the largest cross-section of your congregation that you can.

Lead pastorally.

 

"I am a worship music nerd. I listen to a lot of it. I follow the recent developments. I know who’s out there (sort of). I try to keep up (it’s not easy).

Even I didn’t know most of the songs that we were supposed to be singing along to at the conference. I tuned out. I sat down. I tweeted. I texted my wife. I gave up.

 

"You’re not reading the ramblings of a curmudgeony guy complaining about all the new-fangled things the kids are doing these days, with their drums and tom-toms and electric geetars. You’re reading the heart-cry of a normal guy who’s worried about what worship leaders are doing to themselves and their congregations.

 

"People are tuning out and giving up and just watching.

This is not a criticism of the National Worship Leader Conference, though I do think they could make some changes to more intentionally model an approach to worship leading that isn’t so weighted on the performance side. As I said, the conference exposes us to what’s out there in the (primarily) evangelical worship world.

 

"It’s what’s out there that’s increasingly a problem.

 

"Worship leaders: Step back. Take a deep breath. Think about it.

Do we really want to go down this road? It will result in a crash.

Back up. Recalibrate. Serve your congregations, point them to Jesus, help them sing along and sing with confidence.

Get out of the way, for God’s sake."

 

clipped from:  http://www.churchleaders.com/worship/worship-articles/175020-jamie-brown-evangelical-worship-headed-for-a-huge-crash.html/1

[CoAspen]

Some interesting thoughts and worth considering......know your audience and what is needed for worship.

[Gail]

This was forwarded on to me this morning in an e-mail. It looks like someone has been doing some thinking!

[rudywoofs (Pam)]

this was not written by an SDA... the author is Anglican..

[Gail]

So, trying to become more relevant isn't working? What is the problem and is there an answer?

[Aliensanctuary]

I don't believe that mass-entertainment in churches is the key to understanding the Kingdom. Jesus taught us how to work for the LORD, and although we cannot heal the sick, we can search them out, along with the poor, the elderly, the lonely, the lost...and try to make their lives a little brighter. The Theater of Church has very little to do with the Kingdom.

 

The Kingdom of YHVH is service to others and active concern for their lives and problems, not majestic pipe organs, concerts, brilliant sermons, and a church full of passive pew-warmers.

[Tom Wetmore]

Oh, to just learn to be satisfied and enjoy watching grass grow...

To entertain is to catch and hold someone's attention. If it is done for no purpose beyond that it is pointless. But what we do in church is for a purpose. Much of a church service is performance. Always has been. If we don't successfully catch and hold the attention of the people, we fail to sustain our purpose in coming together and eventually nobody shows up, for lack of interest. The problem I think is not that there is performance, but that it gets tiresomely the same thing each and every week. It becomes a ritual of sameness. Comforting to a few, like a child hearing the same bedtime story every night... to lull them to sleep.

But who really wants to read the same book over and over, sing the same song endlessly 24/7, watch the same movie over and over. It is like being stuck in a mindless job screwing the same screw into the same widget all day long on the assembly line. It is mind numbin soul crushing tedium.

The saved sing a new song... What a simple idea.

[CoAspen]

 

Oh, to just learn to be satisfied and enjoy watching grass grow...

:thinking: :biglaugh:

[JoeMo]

While I agree with most of the original post, as a worship leader for the past 30 years, I take exception to some of it.

 

I inferred from the post that the author was saying worship leaders should not be performers.  I disagree.  While we are not performing for the congregation, we are performing for the King of the Universe; and I want my music to be as perfect and passionate as I can make it without looking silly.

 

New music is good.  It's not too smart to introduce 4 new songs in a 4 song set, but introducing one (especially if it's becoming popular in Christian media) is good.  All of the old songs we like now were once new songs.

 

All old songs is great sometimes, too.  Sometimes I do a set straight out of the traditional hymnal put to guitar instead of piano or organ; and even the young people love it!  Try a country version of "I've Been Redeemed" or "In the Garden"  or "How Great Thou Art" if you want to get everyone singing!

[JoeMo]

"It's not rocket science"

 

I totally agree.  When leading worship for an older traditional congregation, you don't lead out with Toby Mac or Skillet.  When leading out to a younger, more contemporary congregation, you don't lead out with "Old Rugged Cross" or "Blest Be the Ties that Bind" (although "What A Friend We Have in Jesus" might be fun).

 

The purpose of pre-sermon praise music is to bring the congregation into a connection with God, so they can be receptive to the message.  Any other purpose would be a distraction.  A music leader must be sensitive to this; and take into account the culture of the congregation.  I believe God has a very diverse taste in music; and anything offered to Him as an act of sincere worship will be accepted by Him.

[JoeMo]

Hmmm... I wonder if Nadab and Abihu had the same idea?

??? What on earth does this have to do with performance of worship music?

[CoAspen]

They thought our Father was not that picky when they offered "strange fire," which applies to music in worship in a spiritual sense, and they were also drunk.

Let me guess, you have defined any type of music that isn't traditional or to your taste as 'strange fire'?

 

What does being drunk have to to with church music??

[Sojourner]

I have a number of doubts that what passes for church meetings today would even remotely resemble church meetings of the first and second century. Its my belief that the answer to the problem is to make a real attempt to return to our beginings. Its great that the Sabbath was rediscovered, yet there is much more than that and worship is a strong part of that. 

 

Did the early church open Sabbath on Saturday morning in a meeting hall in rows of pews, - Sing 3-4 popular hymns / choruses, have announcements, take up offering, take up missions offering, have a children's story, sing another praise song, preach a sermon @ 40 mins, close with a hymn, talk politely in the foyer for 15-20 mins, then head into Bible study groups based on age? I am guessing most likely not. I feel that churches have now created traditions about how they have to sing worship to God that have no basis in Christian history at all and that those things now create problems for churches accordingly. 

[rudywoofs (Pam)]

While I agree with most of the original post, as a worship leader for the past 30 years, I take exception to some of it.

 

I inferred from the post that the author was saying worship leaders should not be performers.  I disagree.  While we are not performing for the congregation, we are performing for the King of the Universe; and I want my music to be as perfect and passionate as I can make it without looking silly.

 

New music is good.  It's not too smart to introduce 4 new songs in a 4 song set, but introducing one (especially if it's becoming popular in Christian media) is good.  All of the old songs we like now were once new songs.

 

All old songs is great sometimes, too.  Sometimes I do a set straight out of the traditional hymnal put to guitar instead of piano or organ; and even the young people love it!  Try a country version of "I've Been Redeemed" or "In the Garden"  or "How Great Thou Art" if you want to get everyone singing!

 

by "performers" I think the author was referring to some who are up front doing "their thing" without any active participation from the congregation/audience...  and the author never stated not to introduce new songs...  

 

It's a matter of using music and songs that people can follow and understand..

[Gregory Matthews]

Sojourner:  Yes, the worship services of today probably do not resemble the services of the 1st Cent.  Worship always takes place in a cultural context.  That context will vary from place to place, from time to time and from culture to culture.   What does the Bible say about the form and manner of worship?  Very little.  The one major passage found in the Bible that is thought to provide a pattern is found in Isaiah 6: 1-8.

[Gail]

Stan's son-in-law is Mexican. Last week we spent some time talking about his homeland.

He told me about a visit he made to Mexico City and how he spent all day in one quarter section of the city, sight-seeing. He marvelled at the wonderful art that is in the cathedral.

What he said reminded me of a girlfriend who also travelled in Central America, who noted the devotion of the people. She remarked that no matter how poor the people were they kept their place of worship immaculate.

It seems to me that the spirit of the worshipers was that of the devotion of giving rather than demanding. There is a difference in the direction of the emotion. It brought to mind the Biblical story of the widow's mite.

[CoAspen]

Ha ha ha, OK let me guess, too: You believe also that our Father is not picky about what we offer to Him in our worship services?

 

And to answer your last part. Sister White wrote in Patriarchs and Prophets: "Nadab and Abihu would never have committed that fatal sin had they not first become partially intoxicated by the free use of wine." PP 361.3 The lack of discernment about what's holy and what's common is so prevalent today, even among our leaders, that their impaired condition could be compared to a state of intoxication. Demons can have control of our minds using the avenues to the brain. Hearing is one of them.

 

Now, the worse part was done since their youth: "Nadab and Abihu had not in their youth been trained to habits of self-control. The father's yielding disposition, his lack of firmess for right, had led him to neglect the discipline of his children. His sons had be permitted to follow inclination.

 

Habits of self-indulgence long cherished, obtained a hold upon them which even the responsibility of the most sacred office had no power to break. They had not been taught to respect the authority of their father, and they did not realized the necessity of exact obedience to the requirements of God. Aaron's mistaken indulgence of his sons prepared them to become the subjects of the divine judgments" PP 360.1

 

"And the woman was arrayed in purple and scarlet colour, and decked with gold and precious stones and pearls, having a golden cup in her hand full of the abominations and filthiness of her fornication." Rev. 17:4 KJV

The questions still remains!! 

 

What does being drunk have to to with church music??

Let me guess, you have defined any type of music that isn't traditional or to your taste as 'strange fire'?

[CoAspen]

I will assume you do not plan to answer in a clear and forthright manner....your right, but it leads to questioning the honesty of your postings.

[Gregory Matthews]

CoAspen:  Please bear with Bert.  His profile tells us that he is only 55 years old, and was born in 1959.  People of that young age do not have the maturity of experience that people like you and I have.  We must bear with them and seek to guide them through the experiences of life and help them to reach the maturity of wisdom that we have achieved. 

[JoeMo]

Lyndon says:

"I agree with your concern. I also wonder about some of the worship music of today. There has been times that the music I have heard in a worship service would have gone over very well on the "Tonight Show," as it was syrupy sentimental lyrics with no reference to God. I also have heard music that has been played in church that when you look at the source, you have to be a bit concerned about where it is taking us. Some of the sources of music in church today comes out of churches with a bit of scandal in their history."

 

If you don't like the music at your current church, go to another church.  There are obviously people at the church(es) you discuss above who are blessed by that type of music.  Just because you aren't doesn't make you "right" and them "wrong".

[Tom Wetmore]

Administrative Note Regarding:
 

I'm praying for the Holy Spirit to be your teacher and to show you. He's much more capable that I can ever attempt. Be patient, He will do it, if you let Him and surrender yourself to His influence.
 
On another topic: I cannot care less about your doubting the honesty of my posts.
 
Blessings to y'all.

 
Lack of concern about how others may perceive your posts is a problem.
 
If people are doubting the honesty of your posts, it is about your credibility, and your ability to convey whatever thoughts or messages you wish to get across to everyone.  If, as you say, you could care less, that speaks of your attitude about others and it tends to reflect a certain arrogance that suggests you see yourself as superior.   It also suggests that you are not here for the intended purpose of a forum, to dialog, but rather to pontificate and utter judgments against what you have presumed to be the evils of the group.  You will get push back from others in that case. 
 
And it really effectively neutralizes your "Blessings to ya'll" sign-off.  It all just comes across as a sanctimonious way of saying "Screw you", or words to that general effect.
 
And it likewise neutralizes or perhaps illuminates what I assume was your intended primary message point of that post about praying for the Holy Spirit to come to others.  By itself, one could perhaps give it the benefit of the doubt and consider it sincere and genuine, despite its somewhat condescending tone.  But the "I could care less" simply confirms that one should doubt the sincerity, or in other words, honesty, of your postings. However more to this point, it confirms the perception of an attitude of not just simple condescension, but even worse, spiritual condescension, that you seem to be willingly conveying your prideful self-perception of spiritual superiority to the rest of us.  And that, my friend, is much more than a forum etiquette problem.  
 
Consider a new approach.  Seriously.

[Tom Wetmore]

The questions still remains!! 

 

What does being drunk have to to with church music??

Let me guess, you have defined any type of music that isn't traditional or to your taste as 'strange fire'?

And now back to the question at hand.

Perhaps the only strange fire is some misplaced strange firing of broadsides of condemnation. I think the labeling of certain forms of contemporary worship as "strange fire" as quite far off the mark. I do not see the attempted comparing of the story of Nadab and Abihu with modern worship really stands up to scrutiny. There was something far deeper going on there. And trying to compare the OT tabernacle service to modern Christian worship and praise really doesn't add up.

And unloading the drunkenness remark is just that much more off the mark. When as that ever been a problem in any of our churches, or churches in general?!?!

[phkrause]

I'm praying for the Holy Spirit to be your teacher and to show you. He's much more capable that I can ever attempt. Be patient, He will do it, if you let Him and surrender yourself to His influence.

 

On another topic: I cannot care less about your doubting the honesty of my posts.

 

Blessings to y'all.

Burt, I don't think anyone is doubting the honesty of your posts. Its the way you come across. As far as the Holy Spirit, we should all pray for the Holy Spirit to be with all of us and/or that we allow him to work within us.

[Gregory Matthews]

Lyndon said:

 

I also have heard music that has been played in church that when you look at the source, you have to be a bit concerned about where it is taking us. Some of the sources of music in church today comes out of churches with a bit of scandal in their history.

 

Many of the hymn tunes listed in the traditional SDA hymnal were traditional tunes for songs sung in places where alcoholic beverages were sold and consummed. 

 

Study your music hisstory.

[Gregory Matthews]

Bert, by telling us that you do not care less, you are telling us that you are not interested in a civil conversation.