The first sin committed in the Bible?

[Sojourner]

Reflecting on the topic of Sin, I wondered where it was in the Bible that Sin is first mentioned and assumed that it must be when Eve ate the fruit in the garden. Then I read the text and discovered that whilst this act led to them leaving the Garden of Eden there is no mention of the eating of the fruit being sinful. 

 

The question that occurs to me is how it could be that Eve could have the capacity to sin, when it is stated that in order to have the knowledge of Good and Evil that a fruit has to be eaten from the tree in order to make it so. Eve was created in a state of innocence and did not have that knowledge. G-d clearly allowed the serpent access to Eve and in her innocence she believed what she was told and by her own words was tricked into doing so. 

 

Sin gets the first mention in Genesis 4:7 when G-d rejected Cain offering and G-d warns Cain of the penalty of getting involved with it. Cain goes on to then kill Abel and gets the punishment accordingly. 

 

So over to the group, in your opinion, is the first sin in the Bible, the eating of the fruit in the garden, Cain's offering not pleasing G-d, Cain killing Abel, or something else? 

[Robert]

....in your opinion, is the first sin in the Bible, the eating of the fruit in the garden, Cain's offering not pleasing G-d, Cain killing Abel, or something else? 

 

The eating of the fruit, in and of itself, was not sin.  Her failure was when she decided to distrust God's warning and go it alone. 

 

Paul tell us that "the serpent deceived Eve by his craftiness".

 

Morris Venden actually does a good job on this one:

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ec83wW4JX4s

[Gregory Matthews]

If you believe that the Bible presents a picture of a sin that occurred in heaven in which part of God's creation was cast our of heaven, then you would likely say that the first sin recorded in the Bible occurred prior to the sin of Adam and Eve.

[LifeHiscost]

 

So over to the group, in your opinion, is the first sin in the Bible, the eating of the fruit in the garden, Cain's offering not pleasing G-d, Cain killing Abel, or something else? 

Considering that;

 

17.....to one who knows the right thing to do and does not do it, to him it is sin....James 4, if Eve were punished for wrongdoing, which I can't believe it would be any other way, it would have to be she trusted the devil's word over what God, through Adam, had already told her would lead to no good. 17but from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat from it you will surely die." ....Gen 2

I'm satisfied if Eve had pursued the same principle that Jesus expressed to Thomas, one of His disciples, …28Thomas answered and said to Him, "My Lord and my God!" 29Jesus said to him, "Because you have seen Me, have you believed? Blessed are they who did not see, and yet believed."....John 20, Eve could have avoided her danger as well as the deliberate choice to disobey Adam carried out.

In affect then it was disbelief of God's Word that was the first sin. However since Eve was beguiled she was not held as primarily responsible for mankind's downfall.

 

That could be somewhat of a reflection of why the female of the species has a kinder more gentle nature than men, as a general rule.

 

God is Love!  Jesus saves! 

[Gregory Matthews]

Or, the fundamental sin was not in what she ate, but in her rebellion against God.

[Sojourner]

Yet Eve is created in a state of innocence and openly has no knowledge of what Good and Evil is.. How can she then know in all honesty that she is being decieved by the serpent? She has no capacity to know that not trusting in God is actually the wrong thing to do, how could she, she does not know what good and evil is? Cain however does know and chooses openly to do the wrong thing and Sin.

[Gregory Matthews]

S:  Read Genesis 3:1-8  In this passage, you will find the fundamental root of Eve's  sin.

 

Verse 5:  "For God knows that in the day your eat of it, . . . you will be like God, . . ."

 

Eve wanted to have the power of God, to create her own world and to see if she could do better than God had done in Eden.

[TrevorL]

Greetings Sojourner,

Reflecting on the topic of Sin, I wondered where it was in the Bible that Sin is first mentioned and assumed that it must be when Eve ate the fruit in the garden. Then I read the text and discovered that whilst this act led to them leaving the Garden of Eden there is no mention of the eating of the fruit being sinful. 

 

The question that occurs to me is how it could be that Eve could have the capacity to sin, when it is stated that in order to have the knowledge of Good and Evil that a fruit has to be eaten from the tree in order to make it so. Eve was created in a state of innocence and did not have that knowledge. G-d clearly allowed the serpent access to Eve and in her innocence she believed what she was told and by her own words was tricked into doing so. 

 

So over to the group, in your opinion, is the first sin in the Bible, the eating of the fruit in the garden, Cain's offering not pleasing G-d, Cain killing Abel, or something else? 

Adam and Eve were under law not to eat of that tree:
Genesis 2:16-17 (KJV):16 And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat: 17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die

They sinned by eating of the tree:
Genesis 3:1-7 (KJV): 1 Now the serpent was more subtil than any beast of the field which the LORD God had made. And he said unto the woman, Yea, hath God said, Ye shall not eat of every tree of the garden? 2 And the woman said unto the serpent, We may eat of the fruit of the trees of the garden: 3 But of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God hath said, Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die. 4 And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die: 5 For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil. 6 And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree to be desired to make one wise, she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat, and gave also unto her husband with her; and he did eat. 7 And the eyes of them both were opened, and they knew that they were naked; and they sewed fig leaves together, and made themselves aprons.

They were punished because they had sinned:
Genesis 3:17-19 (KJV):17 And unto Adam he said, Because thou hast hearkened unto the voice of thy wife, and hast eaten of the tree, of which I commanded thee, saying, Thou shalt not eat of it: cursed is the ground for thy sake; in sorrow shalt thou eat of it all the days of thy life; 18 Thorns also and thistles shall it bring forth to thee; and thou shalt eat the herb of the field; 19 In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground; for out of it wast thou taken: for dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return.

Paul summarises this process and he uses the word "sin" for what happened with Adam and Eve in the Garden:
Romans 5:12 (KJV): Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:

Kind regards
Trevor


 

[Ted Oplinger]

My thoughts on the passage - I tend to treat Eve with the same logic I do for Cain and Abel - who taught them what the proper sacrifice was? Both obviously did know, but Scripture is silent on how exactly that knowledge was given to them. The simplest conclusion is that their father Adam taught them both...barring that, then God (who conversed with Cain as openly as with Moses 2000+ years later...) must have taught them. I find it rather unlikely Abel would simply stumble onto the same acceptable sacrifice offering for sin as God would note in Leviticus 2000+ years later...

 

Likewise, since Adam received the command concerning the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil, he passed that on to Eve - as evidenced by her words in reply to the serpent.

 

Why did Eve do it? James 1:16 states the process begins when one is drawn away by their own desires for what is forbidden. The serpent was able to successfully paint a portrait of God such that God was purposefully withholding from Adam and Eve a special "God experience/knowledge" that would take them to she was led to believe would be a better state of life - and that it was this experience God forbade under some nebulous penalty of death. Eve desired that experience - and it blossomed into sin the moment she stopped trusting God's Word to be the source of her life. Only then did the action of taking - and eating - the fruit take place...

 

Blessings,

[joeb]

Yet Eve is created in a state of innocence and openly has no knowledge of what Good and Evil is.. How can she then know in all honesty that she is being decieved by the serpent? She has no capacity to know that not trusting in God is actually the wrong thing to do, how could she, she does not know what good and evil is? Cain however does know and chooses openly to do the wrong thing and Sin.

Eve knew what good was.  She knew God.  She had talked to him face-to-face.  What she learned was what evil is.  That was what she didn't know, and she showed she distrusted God because she believed the lie that God was withholding something from her that would be to her benefit. 

 

This ought to be a real lesson to us, but it often seems as if it isn't. Why do I say that?  Because we have the record of what happens when we choose not to believe God's word on something, anything.   God has given us His word, and when we think we will be better off when we decide not to believe it we are indulging in the same thing Eve did.  We are rejecting truth in favor of a lie.  Nothing good ever comes from it, for ourselves or for others. 

 

Our only hope is to take God at His word. 

[Robert]

S:  Read Genesis 3:1-8  In this passage, you will find the fundamental root of Eve's  sin.

 

Verse 5:  "For God knows that in the day your eat of it, . . . you will be like God, . . ."

 

Eve wanted to have the power of God, to create her own world and to see if she could do better than God had done in Eden.

 

But that would infer Eve was tempted.  Eve was made in the image of God; therefore the only desire Eve had within her was based on God's agape love. Eve fell because Satan deceived her.  She was deceived into sin.

[Robert]

Why did Eve do it? James 1:16 states the process begins when one is drawn away by their own desires for what is forbidden.

 Again, Eve had no sinful propensity.  She had no sin nature.  She knew only agape....Therefore her fall into sin is inexpiable.

 

"Sin is a mysterious, unexplainable thing. There was no reason for its existence; to seek to explain it is to seek to give a reason for it, and that would be to justify it. Sin appeared in a perfect universe, a thing that was shown to be inexcusable and exceeding sinful. The reason of its inception or development was never explained and never can be..." (The Signs of the Times, April 28, 1890)

[Robert]

.....we choose not to believe God's word on something.....

 

God stated He created the world in 6 days!

 

What happens when you lift up yourself and question it?  

 

You end up with evolution.  

 

[Sojourner]

 

Again, Eve had no sinful propensity.  She had no sin nature.  She knew only agape....Therefore her fall into sin is inexpiable.

What if the reason is that God actually allowed Eve to eat the apple, to begin the process of people choosing Him via Freewill, not automation?

[phkrause]

God stated He created the world in 6 days!

 

What happens when you lift up yourself and question it?  

 

You end up with evolution.  

 

Exactly! Excellent point Robert

[Joshua-]

SOJOURNER

 

  the  devil   sin  when he was  in  heaven

 

i  would  say that  was the  1st  sin

 

dgrimm60

 

I agree with dgrimm60 that this was the case

 

Ezekiel 28

15 Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee.

16 By the multitude of thy merchandise they have filled the midst of thee with violence, and thou hast sinned: therefore I will cast thee as profane out of the mountain of God: and I will destroy thee, O covering cherub, from the midst of the stones of fire.

 

Regarding the situation with Adam and Eve, I look at it this way.

Eve was told not to partake of the fruit. She did so against the clear instruction from God not to, however, she was deceived into it because the enemy put transgression of Gods commandment between her and something she wanted- growth. The enemy said 'your eyes will be open', implying that they were currently not. She wanted knowledge and growth, and those desires I believe are natural and God given, the enemy used this God given desire in a way that perverted it from being a blessing into being a curse, just like he does with every other natural desire that people have.

Adam, on the other hand, knew that he was transgressing the clear commandment of God, and it looks to me at least like he did it knowing full well that he shouldn't but did it anyway because his desire for his companion Eve was greater than his desire to follow the express commandment of God. I often wonder what would have happened had he refused to partake of it after Eve had.

[Robert]

 

What if the reason is that God actually allowed Eve to eat the apple, to begin the process of people choosing Him via Freewill, not automation?

 

God took a chance in creating a humanity with its "free-will".    Otherwise, as you suggested, humanity would be nothing more than an "automation".

[Sojourner]

God took a chance in creating a humanity with its "free-will".    Otherwise, as you suggested, humanity would be nothing more than an "automation".

 

It is interesting to look at the automaton's of the 16th century. without the existence of Free Will it is my opinion that this is all the human race would be in a similar sheltered environment. 

[Robert]

God knew that in creating beings with free-wills that it was possible for them to oppose Him and His agape love.  In fact He knew that Lucifer would rebel before He created Him, yet He created him anyway.  Lucifer (the morning star) was perfect in all his ways, until iniquity (his bent-to-self) was found in him.

 

Why did God allow self-love (the essence of all sin) to develop?  

 

Answer:  

 

"Satan's rebellion was to be a lesson to the universe through all coming ages--a perpetual testimony to the nature of sin and its terrible results. The working out of Satan's rule, its effects upon both men and angels, would show what must be the fruit of setting aside the divine authority. It would testify that with the existence of God's government is bound up the well-being of all the creatures He has made. Thus the history of this terrible experiment of rebellion* was to be a perpetual safeguard to all holy beings, to prevent them from being deceived as to the nature of transgression, to save them from committing sin, and suffering its penalty." [PP 42,43]

 

Apparently iniquity would have cropped up anyway....If not Lucifer, some other being.  

 

So the only way to preventing "iniquity" from happening again was to allow it to reveal itself.   This is our predicament. 

 

Note: *When Satan rebelled against God in heaven [Revelation 12:7-9], he was really rebelling against the God’s agape love the spirit of His law [Matthew 22:36-40; Romans 13:10; Galatians 5:13-14].  The idea that “love (agape) seeketh not her own” (i.e., self) [1 Corinthians 13:5] was too restrictive to Lucifer.  Consequently he objected to it and introduced the principle of self-love or eros [Ezekiel 28:15; Isaiah 14:12-14].  Therefore, ever since his fall, the enemy of God and man (Satan) has hated the concept of agape. 

[Ted Oplinger]

Robert,

 

 Again, Eve had no sinful propensity.  She had no sin nature.  She knew only agape....Therefore her fall into sin is inexpiable.

 

"Sin is a mysterious, unexplainable thing. There was no reason for its existence; to seek to explain it is to seek to give a reason for it, and that would be to justify it. Sin appeared in a perfect universe, a thing that was shown to be inexcusable and exceeding sinful. The reason of its inception or development was never explained and never can be..." (The Signs of the Times, April 28, 1890)

 

James 1:14-15 makes no allusion to a sinful propensity. The Greek word there for "desire" (NKJV) is "epithymia" - is used in literature to define an enticing desire, a longing for something forbidden...it makes no reference to sin or a sinful propensity. It is our own bias on this side of the sin issue that puts the "sinful propensity" spin upon that word by translating it "lust". To say that Eve did not desire the fruit of the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil would be a denial of Genesis 3:16 - she certainly did desire it to take hold and eat, without having a sinful propensity.

 

James 1:14-15 covers the process that gives birth to sin: the enticing desire, which turns into a dwelling surrender to the enticement, which then tempts through the enticement to deny one's trust in God and His Word, which in turn becomes sin, which then in turn becomes one's death. Eve did not need a sinful propensity for that process to take place - only a surrender to an enticing desire - which is exactly what Genesis 3:6 states what happened. Having a sinful propensity only catalyzes the process, making the surrender to the enticement and disregard for God and His Word so much more easier.

 

I seriously doubt Eve really understood what was happening to her during the entire process, as Satan had masterfully disguised and arranged each and every step she took into sin. She could truthfully confess to God she was deceived each step of the way. Note that this did not mitigate her guilt in any form or fashion before God in Genesis 3:16....

 

Adam, on the other hand, walked into sin fully aware of the choice he was making. There was no deception placed before him.

 

Blessings,

[Robert]

Robert,

 

To say that Eve did not desire the fruit of the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil would be a denial of Genesis 3:16 - she certainly did desire it to take hold and eat, without having a sinful propensity.

 

Gen 3:6 "When the woman (Eve) saw that the fruit of the tree was good for food and pleasing to the eye, and also desirable for gaining wisdom, she took some and ate it. She also gave some to her husband, who was with her, and he ate it."

 

Eve's desire couldn't have been the same type of desire James speaks of in James 1:14....She was indeed innocent.  Her motives were based in God's agape love.  Therefore her fall is unexplainable! 

 

"The serpent deceived Eve by his craftiness." 2  Cor 11:3 He caused her to doubt God.  It is same with Theistic Evolution for it is a tool used of the serpent to place doubt in God's Word (the Bible).  Doubt or unbelief always leads to sin.  Hence "whatever is not from faith is sin."

 

Eve was deceived into sin.  At that point the God's Spirit vacated her spirit and Satan imbued it with his love of self.

[Robert]

After the fall:

 

Gen 3:11 Have you eaten from the tree that I (God) commanded you not to eat from?"

 

12 The man said, "The woman you put here with me--she gave me some fruit from the tree, and I ate it."

 

Adam now has a human nature.  That natures is bent-to-self...it loves self.  So is he going to take responsibility?  No, it's God's and Eve's fault....

 

13 Then the LORD God said to the woman, "What is this you have done?" The woman said, "The serpent deceived me, and I ate."

 

Eve takes no responsibility for going to the tree and being deceived.  She too love herself.  It's the serpent's fault.

 

At the creation (which Theistic Evolution denies) Adam & Eve were made in the image and likeness of God.  Let's read this:

 

Gen 5:1 This is the book of the genealogy of Adam. In the day that God created man (mankind or Adam) He made him in the likeness of God (i.e., God's self-emptying agape love). 2 He created them male and female, and blessed them and called them Mankind in the day they were created.

 

The above was before the fall.

Now verse 3:  And Adam lived one hundred and thirty years, and begot a son in his own likeness, after his image, and named him Seth. 

 

All of Adam's children (namely humanity) are born in his likeness after his image.  This heresy that states we are born in God's image is another lie from the Father of lies.  We are born "bent-to-self" and therefore we are in the image of "the god of this world" because "self-love" is his invention.

[Robert]

  We are born "bent-to-self" and therefore we are in the image of "the god of this world" because "self-love" is his invention.

 

Proof:

 

Ps 51:5 Behold, I was brought forth in iniquity (my "bent-to-self), And in iniquity my mother conceived me. 

 

In other words David's mother passed on to her son, David, the same nature that is bent-to-self.

 

Because of this "There is none righteous, no, not one"

[Sojourner]

 

Eve was deceived into sin.  At that point the God's Spirit vacated her spirit and Satan imbued it with his love of self.

Not sure I agree with this statement, where do you find this in scripture? 

[Robert]

God is spirit [see John 4:24], so when He said, “Let us make mankind in our image, in our likeness” [Genesis 1:26], it was primarily this aspect of our being — our spirit — that He had in mind.  This spirit is not our breath, our soul, or the Holy Spirit.  It is the component in us that, above all else, distinguishes us from the animals and makes us spiritual beings accountable to God.  It is because human beings have a spirit that we find even the most primitive people worshiping in some form.  The human spirit wants to commune with the spiritual world just as our bodies interact with the physical world and our minds (soul) interact with other minds.  We are spiritual, physical, and social beings because we are made up of spirit, body, and soul.

 

God formed in us this spiritual component in order that it might be His point of contact with us — His dwelling place in us.  Through our spirits, He would direct our minds (our souls), which in turn would control our bodies [see Colossians 2:19].  Thus, the entire person, living in total dependence on God, would reflect His character of selfless love [see 1 John 4:7-8].  This was God’s original plan for us when He created our first parents.

 

Sad to say, sin marred God’s plan.  When Adam and Eve sinned, the Holy Spirit left them, leaving their spirits vacant for Satan to occupy.  Selfishness replaced unselfish love, and their lives were darkened spiritually [see 2 Peter 2:19].  This is the nature with which all their children have been born; we come into the world without the indwelling Spirit of God, slaves to the devil and sin.  Everyone is born into this world uninhabited by God’s Spirit, and can, therefore, walk only “follow[ing] the ways of this world and of the ruler of the kingdom of the air, the spirit who is now at work in those who are disobedient” [Ephesians 2:2].