What was the "yoke of bondage" ?

[Robert]

 

When Jesus receives "dominion" He will share it with redeemed human beings.

 

 

Okay...future....I'll buy that.  The earth made new.

[Robert]

In order to heal and restore it. 

 

Mankind is "sin polluted" just like the planet.  But HE can heal and restore men too.

 

 

He has, "in Christ".  Right this minute you can say that "in Christ" you have a new, glorified humanity.  He is, after all, the last Adam.

 

Look at these statements and notice that "in Christ" your new, glorified life is in Him as I write:

 

Col 1:3 For He rescued us from the domain of darkness, and transferred us to the Kingdom of His beloved Son, 14 in whom we have redemption, the forgiveness of sins. 

 

Eph 2:5 ...even when we were dead in our transgressions, made us alive together in Christ (by grace you have been saved ), 6 and raised us up with Him, and seated us with Him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus...

 

At the 2nd coming your old life from Adam remains in the grave (or if living you are changed in the blink of an eye)

 

1 Cor 15:50 I declare to you, brothers, that flesh (Sarx - your old, sinful life) and blood (your life from Adam) cannot inherit the kingdom of God, nor does the perishable inherit the imperishable. 

51 Listen, I tell you a mystery: We will not all sleep, but we will all be changed-- 

52 in a flash, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed. 

53 For the perishable must clothe itself with the imperishable, and the mortal with immortality.

[8thdaypriest]

 

That would mean that Christ's doing and dying is meaningless until the sinner accepts.  The fact is that Christ has saved (past tense) the human race in Himself, but many refuse that salvation.  

 

Let's look at Eph 2:4-9

 

God, who is rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us, 

5 even when we were dead in trespasses (i.e., unbelieving sinners), made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved), 

6 and raised us up together, and made us sit together in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus, 

7 that in the ages to come He might show the exceeding riches of His grace in His kindness toward us in Christ Jesus. 

8 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, 

9 not of works, lest anyone should boast. 

 

 

Notice, please, that while you were a sinner God saved you 2000 years ago in Christ Jesus.  You were saved by grace!  Nothing in verse 5 about faith.  So Christ saved you 2000 years ago.  You can add nothing to His legal justification of you through the gospel.  Yes, hopefully you have received the gospel through faith, but your faith didn't make it so.  You were already saved in Christ....That is why infants, who die before the age of accountability, will be in heaven.  What saved them...their faith?  No, they couldn't comprehend such things.  

 

Go to Romans 5:18  "So then as through one transgression there resulted condemnation to all men, even so through one act of righteousness there resulted justification of life to all men."

 

Christ, has legally justified "all men" by His doing & dying so that all men are born "saved by grace".....Then when men reach the age that they can comprehend their need of Christ it must be received by faith.  Hence justification by faith.

 

Robert,

I don't agree with your understanding concerning the WHEN.

If Christ actually "saved" (past tense) all men on the day of His death, that would mean that ALL MEN began the process of "heart healing".

We know they didn't. 

 

That would mean that the name of EVERY HUMAN BEING was written into the Book of Life on THAT DAY.

I don't believe it was.

 

I believe the death of Christ made salvation available for all mankind. 

 

But individuals must choose it, by believing and expressing that belief. 

They CANNOT believe without information (and the maturity or mind development to interpret that information).

They must receive that information.

Based upon that information - they must CHOOSE to believe. 

God will HELP by the pleading of His Spirit.

But the choice remains for the individual.

 

There's a study on my website titled "The Book of Life - A Challenge".  It's on the page where all of the chapters of the book "The 8th Day" are available to read. 

I'm going to also put it under a "button" next to the "Book of Life" study.  Give me an hour or so. 

[8thdaypriest]

He has, "in Christ". Right this minute you can say that "in Christ" you have a new, glorified humanity. He is, after all, the last Adam.

Look at these statements and notice that "in Christ" your new, glorified life is in Him as I write:

Col 1:3 For He rescued us from the domain of darkness, and transferred us to the Kingdom of His beloved Son, 14 in whom we have redemption, the forgiveness of sins.

Eph 2:5 ...even when we were dead in our transgressions, made us alive together in Christ (by grace you have been saved ), 6 and raised us up with Him, and seated us with Him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus

We have the absolute promise - which with God is absolute. We do NOT YET have the reality.

My joints still hurt. Doesn't yet FEEL LIKE a glorified body.

[8thdaypriest]

Okay...future....I'll buy that.  The earth made new.

The "river bringing life" that flows out of the Temple that Ezekiel saw in vision. 

Where that river flows, everything comes to life. 

 

The prophecy of Ezekiel says that Israel returned to the land, will restore the ruins, and rebuild what was destroyed. 

So I believe the LORD will restore THIS PLANET - not create an entirely new one.

[8thdaypriest]

Samie and I debated for a LONG TIME, his belief that the name of every human being was written into the Book of Life, at the foundation of the world.  j

He started the thread, by asking just WHEN were names written into that Book.  I'm sure you can find that thread.

[Robert]

We have the absolute promise - which with God is absolute.  We do NOT YET have the reality. 

My joints still hurt.  Doesn't yet FEEL LIKE a glorified body. 

Those aren't promises....They are an historical account of what took place 2000 years ago.  You hurt because you are child of Adam, but in Christ you have a new, immortal life.....

[8thdaypriest]

God the Father exists in past-present-and future, simultaneously. 

To HIM, we already HAVE BEEN resurrected or translated into HIS Kingdom. 

 

He "calls those things which are not, as though they are". 

 

So - it depends upon your perspective. 

God's perspective or our (only present tense) human one. 

[Robert]

Robert,

I don't agree with your understanding concerning the WHEN.

If Christ actually "saved" (past tense) all men on the day of His death, that would mean that ALL MEN began the process of "heart healing".

We know they didn't. 

 

Legally saved according to His own law.  In Christ you were made obedient and in Him your life from Adam died eternally.  In Christ you are complete.

 

If none of this true then the Pope is right and we must merit salvation.  

 

Christ has reversed our condemnation in Adam (see Rom 5:18) by becoming the last Adam.  Man must reject the gospel in order to be lost.....

[Robert]

God the Father exists in past-present-and future, simultaneously. 

To HIM, we already HAVE BEEN resurrected or translated into HIS Kingdom. 

 

He "calls those things which are not, as though they are". 

 

So - it depends upon your perspective. 

God's perspective or our (only present tense) human one. 

 

Look at this and maybe you'll understand what I am saying:

 

2 Cor 5:14 For the love of Christ compels us, because we judge thus: that if One died for all, then all died; 

15 and He died for all, that those who live should live no longer for themselves, but for Him who died for them and rose again. 

16Therefore, from now on, we regard no one according to the flesh. Even though we have known Christ according to the flesh, yet now we know Him thus no longer.

17 Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; old things have passed away; behold, all things have become new.

 

You are a  new creation in Christ, not here....If all things have become new in you then why are you getting older, hurting and yes falling short (sinning)?  No, we have a new creation "in Christ Jesus" in heaven itself.  

 

You receive your new, glorified life from Christ (the last Adam) when He calls your new creation into existence at the 2nd coming. Your substance, your new life is in Him now.

[8thdaypriest]

Remember that statement/promise of Christ:

 

John 11:25-26   “Jesus said to her, ‘I am the resurrection and the life. He who believes in Me, though he may die, he shall live.  And whoever lives and believes in Me shall never die. Do you believe this?’”

 

This statement could be VERY CONFUSING.

 

You'll NEVER die.

But if you die (which means you WILL die) you will live again.

 

The ONLY WAY to make sense of this statement, is to understand that Christ is speaking of TWO DIFFERENT TYPES OF DEATH.

You may die the first type of death - physical death.

But you won't die the second type of death - spirit death in the lake of fire.

 

The first type is only "sleep", while the second type is erasing God's memory of you so you cannot be resurrected - EVER.

 

So whether or not you are "DEAD", depends upon your perspective. 

 

You and I are eternally ALIVE to God, because HE exists with us - in the future. 

Those who have refused Jesus, are DEAD to God the Father, because they don't exist with HIM - in the future.

[Robert]

Remember that statement/promise of Christ:

 

John 11:25-26   “Jesus said to her, ‘I am the resurrection and the life. He who believes in Me, though he may die, he shall live.  And whoever lives and believes in Me shall never die. Do you believe this?’”

 

 

Your old life from Adam dies....That's the first death.....If you haven't rejected the gospel then you will never die the 2nd death because you have been saved from under the law.

[8thdaypriest]

 

Look at this and maybe you'll understand what I am saying:

 

2 Cor 5:14 For the love of Christ compels us, because we judge thus: that if One died for all, then all died; 

15 and He died for all, that those who live should live no longer for themselves, but for Him who died for them and rose again. 

16Therefore, from now on, we regard no one according to the flesh. Even though we have known Christ according to the flesh, yet now we know Him thus no longer. 

17 Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; old things have passed away; behold, all things have become new.

 

 

You are new creation in Christ, not here....If all things have become new in you then why are you getting older, hurting and yes falling short (sinning)?  No, we have a new creation "in Christ Jesus" in heaven itself.  You receive your new, glorified life from Christ the last Adam when He calls your new creation into existence at the 2nd coming.

 

17 Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; old things have passed away; behold, all things have become new.

 

That's a BIG "if". 

 

How does one enter "IN" to Christ?

By believing.

How does one believe?

By receiving information, and then choosing to believe.

 

You say one must CHOOSE to reject salvation - by refusing to believe, in order to be lost.

I say one must CHOOSE to accept salvation - by believing - in order to be saved. 

 

BOTH are a CHOICE.

 

I say we are LOST until we believe.

You say we are SAVED until we reject belief. 

 

Your belief means that anyone who has not received enough information upon which to BASE belief or rejection of belief, IS SAVED and will be in the kingdom.

That would include every pagan who never heard of Yahweh or Christ.  That would include all children, and all mentally challenged people.

 

You could be living next door to a Mayan king who cut out human hearts - because never rejected something that he never heard of.

 

I believe that every person who lived and died in ignorance (without the information upon which to base acceptance or rejection) of salvation,

will be resurrected as part of "the rest of the dead".  He/she will then be given the information, and will then be required to CHOOSE whom he will serve.

 

Gog and Magog will consist of those who refuse salvation.

[8thdaypriest]

Your old life from Adam dies....That's the first death.....If you haven't rejected the gospel then you will never die the 2nd death because you have been saved from under the law.

I don't agree Robert.  This is the SAME DEBATE I was having with samie.

[8thdaypriest]

I had surgery on my neck, so I can't look at the computer screen for too long.  I need to get up and move around for awhile.  See ya later.

 

I do AGREE with you, that the yoke was "the Law".

[Robert]

The first type is only "sleep", while the second type is erasing God's memory of you so you cannot be resurrected - EVER.

 

 

 

 

sleep is a metaphor.  You will not remain dead. You will be raised immortal.  Your new creation will be called into existence in a blink of an eye.  No evolution....  

[Robert]

 

17 Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; old things have passed away; behold, all things have become new.

 

That's a BIG "if". 

 

How does one enter "IN" to Christ?

By believing.

 

 

 

 

No, no, no.....The verses in Col 1 and Eph 2 already illustrated that Christ took "us" (our new humanity) to heaven when He went back.....You can't get around that....

 

The "if" refers to those who haven't rejected the gospel.   If you haven't rejected the gospel you are in Christ.

 

 Infants can't accept or reject.  They are in Christ because God saved the human race "in Christ".  They are saved by grace alone because they are incapable of exercising faith.

 

But for those who have matured the law comes and pronounces judgement.  Then a competent person must either reject or receive what Christ has already accomplished. The one under law must be born again.  Infants are sinners, but they aren't under law!  Why?  Guilt involves volition. 

 

For those who persistently reject the gospel they will receive the curse of the law.

[Robert]

I had surgery on my neck, so I can't look at the computer screen for too long.  I need to get up and move around for awhile.  See ya later.

 

I do AGREE with you, that the yoke was "the Law".

Okay...I've had two back surgeries, sinus surgery.  I also have bad allergies.  Feeling your pain. Can't wait to get my new, sinless, glorified life in Christ.  No more hurting...no more sinning...no more dying.....Keep the faith!!!!