Samie Posted March 15, 2015 Posted March 15, 2015 Not whether we are worthy, only if we are included among the saved. ... Unless blotted out from the book of life at death for not overcoming evil while alive, we were already counted among the saved. We don't obey the law to be written because before any of us was born, our names were already written there. The name of the game is OVERCOMING evil with good. And attached to Him Who is our strength, we can overcome the evil of sinning. If in the final analysis one is found to have not overcome the evil of sinning, he has no one else to blame for it is not a question of INABILITY, but one of REFUSAL to overcome evil with good. LifeHiscost 1 Quote
Robert Posted March 15, 2015 Author Posted March 15, 2015 There's more to it than that, I think. The gospel we preach must include what the life, death and resurrection of the Savior has done, is doing and will be doing for all of us... Doing is the fruits of the gospel....What Christ did is the gospel. It is the foundation of our justification..... Quote
Robert Posted March 15, 2015 Author Posted March 15, 2015 12Here is the perseverance of the saints who keep the commandments of God and their faith in Jesus. 13And I heard a voice from heaven, saying, "Write, 'Blessed are the dead who die in the Lord from now on!'" "Yes," says the Spirit, "so that they may rest from their labors, for their deeds follow with them."....Revelation 14 This does not prove that the law will be used in the judgment as a litmus test..... Quote
Robert Posted March 15, 2015 Author Posted March 15, 2015 If in the final analysis one is found to have not overcome the evil of sinning, he has no one else to blame for it is not a question of INABILITY, but one of REFUSAL to overcome evil with good. That's preaching perfectionism or better yet, legalism. Quote
Robert Posted March 15, 2015 Author Posted March 15, 2015 That's preaching perfectionism or better yet, legalism. There are two types of works: 1] Works of the law 2] Works of faith Works of the law (#1) are works produced by those who are ultimately not fully resting in the imputed righteousness of Christ. Hence the works they produce are "works of iniquity". These works come from the flesh, not the Spirit and prove the so called believer is not resting in Christ. Works of faith (#2) are works produced in the believer through God's Spirit as the believer fully rests in the imputed righteousness of Christ. This is the only way to experience the imparted righteousness of Christ. Christ's imparted righteousness is not what saves, rather it proves the believer's faith (not his righteousness). Quote
LifeHiscost Posted March 16, 2015 Posted March 16, 2015 Doing is the fruits of the gospel....What Christ did is the gospel. It is the foundation of our justification..... As also sanctification and glorification. 30But by His doing you are in Christ Jesus, who became to us wisdom from God, and righteousness and sanctification, and redemption, 31so that, just as it is written, "LET HIM WHO BOASTS, BOAST IN THE LORD."...1 Corinthians 13 Emphasis theirs' LHC God is Love! Jesus saves! Quote Lift Jesus up!!
Robert Posted March 16, 2015 Author Posted March 16, 2015 As also sanctification and glorification. 30But by His doing you are in Christ Jesus, who became to us wisdom from God, and righteousness and sanctification, and redemption, 31so that, just as it is written, "LET HIM WHO BOASTS, BOAST IN THE LORD."...1 Corinthians 13 Emphasis theirs' LHC God is Love! Jesus saves! Please notice that in Christ we stand justified, sanctified and redeemed. Quote
stinsonmarri Posted March 17, 2015 Posted March 17, 2015 Outwardly obeying rules is not the gospel. If one is not resting in Christ's finished work of redemption then one's works are automatically legalistic and proof that one as not entered God's rest. Here we go with legalistic again. The Law is legal and it is narrow and that is a fact! That word came up in the 1800's for those who did not want to follow ELOHIM'S Commands. Is it legalist to break in your house, or if someone did not stop at the red light and hit you, or someone just take your money? We live in a nation that has laws are we not to follow them because they are too legalistic?? You only touch on one point but never the duty we are required to do Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear THE ELOHIM, and keep HIS Commandments; for this applies to every man. For THE ELOHIM shall bring every work into judgment, with all that is hidden, whether it is good, or whether it is evil. Ecc 12:13 Blessings! LifeHiscost 1 Quote
Robert Posted March 17, 2015 Author Posted March 17, 2015 Here we go with legalistic again. The Law is legal and it is narrow and that is a fact! We are not under the law because no one is measuring up to it's spiritual demands. The law requires no self-interests...no self-seeking... The law requires for you to love your neighbor (including your enemy) as you naturally love yourself. If I loved (agaped) you as I naturally love myself then I would live for you and you would have my possessions. That's why Paul, in speaking of agape love, said: "Let no man seek his own, but every man another's wealth." 1 Cor 10:24 All self-seeking is sin. Sin is based on iniquity, our bent-to-self. So legally speaking, if you wish to gain eternal life by your performance, then you must live a life free from all self-interests. Quote
Samie Posted March 17, 2015 Posted March 17, 2015 That's preaching perfectionism or better yet, legalism. Perfectionism, yes. Legalism, no. We are perfect, having been sanctified or made holy and made part of the body of Christ. NAS Hebrews 10: 10 By this will we have been sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all. 14 For by one offering He has perfected for all time those who are sanctified. Quote
Samie Posted March 17, 2015 Posted March 17, 2015 Legalism requires man's participation prior to being made part of the body of Christ. Therefore, it is more of Legalism when one preaches that unless a person believes he cannot be made part of the body of Christ. Quote
LifeHiscost Posted March 17, 2015 Posted March 17, 2015 Legalism requires man's participation prior to being made part of the body of Christ. Therefore, it is more of Legalism when one preaches that unless a person believes he cannot be made part of the body of Christ. That would seem to me to identify Jesus as being a legalist, unless it is possible one would pursue a course of behavior without believing it to be right or necessary. 5Jesus answered, "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit he cannot enter into the kingdom of God....John 3 God is Love! Jesus saves! Quote Lift Jesus up!!
Robert Posted March 17, 2015 Author Posted March 17, 2015 Perfectionism, yes. Legalism, no. We are perfect, having been sanctified or made holy and made part of the body of Christ. NAS Hebrews 10: 10 By this will we have been sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all. 14 For by one offering He has perfected for all time those who are sanctified. The body of Christ refers to His humanity. In Him we have a new, glorified humanity free of sin and mortality. He did this through by His "will" and thus we were set apart (sanctified) in Him 2000 years ago. We have received this by faith.... Quote
Robert Posted March 17, 2015 Author Posted March 17, 2015 5Jesus answered, "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit he cannot enter into the kingdom of God....John 3 God is Love! Jesus saves! This applies only to all those who have past the age of accountability and can exercise faith.....Mentally handicapped and infants/small children are born under grace and have thus been justified unto life in Christ Jesus. You must chose to be lost.... LifeHiscost 1 Quote
Robert Posted March 17, 2015 Author Posted March 17, 2015 .... it is more of Legalism when one preaches that unless a person believes he cannot be made part of the body of Christ. The human race was made obedient and it also died "in Christ" 2000 yrs ago. This is all past tense. Therefore in Him all men have been justified unto life. Thus we are born saved from under the law and thus justified unto life. However, as we mature and God's law is comprehended, then we have to make a choice for our against the gospel. If we reject truth we go under law until we repent and accept Christ. If not Christ is forcing salvation upon men, but this cannot be because agape doesn't force. Mature men & women must accept the gospel by faith to remain free from under law. Otherwise we are preaching universalism!. Also, if one accepts the gospel, and then apostatizes, he remains under law permanently because he has hardened his heart and God's Spirit can no longer reach him. See Heb chapter 6 Quote
LifeHiscost Posted March 17, 2015 Posted March 17, 2015 This applies only to all those who have past the age of accountability and can exercise faith.....Mentally handicapped and infants/small children are born under grace and have thus been justified unto life in Christ Jesus. You must chose to be lost.... Or possibly, the Lord being able to see the end from the beginning, would allow those of such ilk to be allowed permanent oblivion rather than raising them to life just to destroy them for what they would have chosen anyway. …12So speak and so act as those who are to be judged by the law of liberty. 13For judgment will be merciless to one who has shown no mercy; mercy triumphs over judgment....James 2 God is Love! Jesus saves! Quote Lift Jesus up!!
Robert Posted March 18, 2015 Author Posted March 18, 2015 Or possibly, the Lord being able to see the end from the beginning, would allow those of such ilk to be allowed permanent oblivion rather than raising them to life just to destroy them for what they would have chosen anyway. "God is love", no, yes??? Why would a God of love, who has delivered us from under law, allow us permanent oblivion? Is it our fault we are born in a fallen world? Who created Lucifer knowing he would become Satan? Answer: God So while God did not create sin He has allowed it. Therefore the responsibility (not the Blame) of sin rest of His shoulders. I was born into this fallen world (no choice of my own). Was I born lost? If so, who is responsible? Answer: God All those aborted infants...are they lost? IF so, Satan is more powerful than God because God is losing when it comes to souls won in the great controversy. And Ellen White writes of the slave, who knew nothing more than his masters whip, that he will be as if wasn't. I don't buy that....First, she had limited light. Who said? She said it! So we have a lot to learn of God's agape love....We have a lot to learn about the gospel. Lastly, like I said, "God is love"....He isn't trying to keep folks out, but get them in..... Quote
Robert Posted March 18, 2015 Author Posted March 18, 2015 I'm starting another topic about the salvation of infants since I'm diverting from my original topic.. Quote
stinsonmarri Posted March 22, 2015 Posted March 22, 2015 It appears that we have become like the first day churches. No ones is under any law unless he/she breaks it. If you are driving and run a red light, then you become under the law. The ticket is you judgment for breaking the law. You ether pay it or go before the judge to plead your case. Now let me give to you what happen to me. I was riding in the city of Newnan Georgia, going home. I had just past the light and going at the right speed. Instantly without any sirens a police car was on me with lights on. The first thing I did was look at the odometer to see if I was going above the correct speed. I was driving correctly and I then was trying to get over, when he pull over and continue on. I kept driving when another one came behind me again with no sound but only the flashing lights. He pull me over and said I did not get over fast enough for the first car. I told him, that he did not give a warning but was swiftly behind me! I was giving a ticket and I came to court. I pleaded my case and the persecutor these days said she would look at the tape. She rescheduled for a month and took my email! I receive grace because after seeing the tape I was correct. I was not under the law! Now for the life of me, where is this coming about not been under the Universal Law. If you sin you are under the law and it is like a mirror. When you look in the mirror, the Law points out that your face is dirty, but it cannot clean you. It only show you that have sin or come under the Law. But, when YAHSHUA died, because the Law requires that only the shedding of blood through death can erase sin. YAHSHUA came and died so I didn't have too, that is the soap and water that cleanses. But, you need something to use the soap and water to wash your face clean. That's when grace comes in, the wash cloth. That merit comes from THE FATHER freely who allowed HIS SON to die for all who wants grace. However, you cannot keep disobeying by breaking ELOHIM'S Law because it is HIS CHARACTER of Love. HE, HIS SON, and THE HOLY SPIRIT follows the same Law because it is what and who THEY are- LOVE! Grace is a free gift, but do not presume that you can keep getting a free card, when you end back in jail! Do we not as parent have laws in our home. Yes, we do we because we love and respect our children and want to them to love and respect us back!!!! Blessings! joeb 1 Quote
Robert Posted March 22, 2015 Author Posted March 22, 2015 No ones is under any law unless he/she breaks it.... If you sin you are under the law and it is like a mirror. When you look in the mirror, the Law points out that your face is dirty, but it cannot clean you. It only show you that have sin or come under the Law. So, when we sin, we are under law? That's what I call "yo-yo salvation". In other words if I sin and die before I repent, I'm lost. The fact is, Stinsonmarri, all have sinned and fall short of God's agape. See Romans 3:23. "And fall short" is in the present continuous tense, meaning no one is measuring up to Christ's self-emptying agape love. As Ellen White states, "The great and infinite God lives not unto Himself, but for the benefit and blessing of every being...." [http://www.whiteestate.org/message/Love_Manifested1.asp] Here all fall short. Since we are all failing to live the demands of the Spirit of the law are we then under the law? If so, we are all lost! Quote
LifeHiscost Posted March 22, 2015 Posted March 22, 2015 we are all lost! Correct, for all who refuse to accept the robe of Jesus' righteousness as their only claim to immortality, with no personal claim for adding something to their justification, sanctification or glorification. The only thing our efforts do is prove to the dragon that we have no desire to yield our allegiance to him. 4For all people are mine to judge—both parents and children alike. And this is my rule: The person who sins is the one who will die....Ezekiel 18 7Submit therefore to God. Resist the devil and he will flee from you. 8Draw near to God and He will draw near to you. Cleanse your hands, you sinners; and purify your hearts, you double-minded.…James 4 …51Behold, I tell you a mystery; we will not all sleep, but we will all be changed, 52in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet; for the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed. 53For this perishable must put on the imperishable, and this mortal must put on immortality.…1 Corinthians 15 God is Love! Jesus saves! Quote Lift Jesus up!!
stinsonmarri Posted March 22, 2015 Posted March 22, 2015 (edited) Robert I read your comment and it not a "yo-yo salvation," in actually your thinking is. I said not to be unkind but hope that what you said is to the Universal Law. Out of all of Satan's effort this world is the only that fail for his deceit and lie. The Law is Universal and all the other sons of ELOHIM, those are created beings just like us did not fall. Since you quoted for EGW let me also: The MASTER has given me a view of other worlds. Wings were given me, and an angel attended me from the city to a place that was bright and glorious. The inhabitants of the place were of all sizes; they were noble, majestic, and lovely. They bore the EXPRESS IMAGE of YAHSHUA, and their countenances beamed with holy joy, expressive of the freedom and happiness of the place. I asked one of them why they were so much more lovely than those on the earth. The reply was, "We have lived in strict obedience to the Commandments of ELOHIM, and have not fallen by disobedience, like those on the earth." EW p. 39 There are some important things she mention that the inhabitants stated. One is their strict or shall we say legalistic obedience to the Commandments. They also have holy joy, express freedom and happiness and had not disobeyed. We know here that the jails are full of those who disobeyed the laws of the land. What, shall we let them go free to continue wreck havoc on society Robert? Can all come and live in your neighborhood? Of course not, but we are so ridiculous hard on the Universal Law which allows us to be free. Misunderstand the gift of grace,the righteousness by faith, justification and salvation, really the whole package. The problem is that we wrap ourselves in Greek philosophy and theology of thinking. Satan have so delusional our way of thinking that we are warp with paganism in our minds which is carnal! We take Paul words that has been tamper with by the Greeks and the Catholic Church to make the true goodness of the Universal Law has as something that weighs us down. The Universal Law is just that Universal and everything out there abides by it but us. Satan argued that thinking beings as himself being made holy does not need to be under control. All things are if not chaos comes as we have seen many time on this planet and in our solar system. Have you ask yourself why? We have never once seen any planets, star crashing into each other. We see meteorites hitting, but yet their are millions of them between Mars and Jupiter as a wall blocking the earth beings themselves from going anywhere but only to Mars and not beyond there. Why is that? Why have we only read of one legions of evil angels, pleading to go into swines for what reason? The swines were instantly killed? Why do men and women want to have sex with the same sex or why do men want to have oral sex? Isn't that acting like animals? These homosexual can not have children and say if all the heterosexual people die off, how would they exist? Maybe we are animals and this earth is billions of years old? Why all these war? Why do man hate people of different color and they try to tan to brown themselves? Let's just get rid of law as we feel we should not be govern by ELOHIM'S Law that they do copy off of? Like the Republican's feel, let not have government and each what ever type of gun, tank, or weapon we want? There really was no flood, so how did all those glacier get here? Who build these civilization with stones so heavy even our equipment today could not lift them? These civilization that has no writing why? Let's let all the murders, thieves, terrorist, racist rule because they are not legalist at all and they can speak better for us right Robert? Blessings! Edited March 22, 2015 by Tom Wetmore No need to shout... Quote
Robert Posted March 22, 2015 Author Posted March 22, 2015 "The drunkard is despised and is told that his sin will exclude him from heaven; while pride, selfishness, and covetousness too often go unrebuked. But these are sins that are especially offensive to God; for they are contrary to the benevolence of His character, to that unselfish love which is the very atmosphere of the unfallen universe. He who falls into some of the grosser sins may feel a sense of his shame and poverty and his need of the grace of Christ; but pride (legalistic pride, that is) feels no need, and so it closes the heart against Christ and the infinite blessings He came to give....The Pharisee’s boastful, self-righteous prayer showed that his heart was closed against the influence of the Holy Spirit. Because of his distance from God, he had no sense of his own defilement, in contrast with the perfection of the divine holiness. He felt no need, and he received nothing." Who is keeping the spirit of the law, are you sister? According to Paul we can experience growth under grace, but to say we are keeping the law in all its entirety is a form of legalistic pride. We are, as Paul stated, falling short of God's agape. It is agape that fulfills the law. Quote
8thdaypriest Posted March 23, 2015 Posted March 23, 2015 The gospel must go to all the world (past and present) before THE END can come. There are millions in poverty, millions with incurable painful diseases, etc. etc. It seems to me, if we want to END this mess on our planet - we must teach "the gospel". But in this thread we have different opinions on just WHAT THE GOSPEL IS. So then HOW can we get the work done - if we cannot even agree on just WHAT the GOSPEL IS ? Quote 8thdaypriest
8thdaypriest Posted March 23, 2015 Posted March 23, 2015 Legalism requires man's participation prior to being made part of the body of Christ. Therefore, it is more of Legalism when one preaches that unless a person believes he cannot be made part of the body of Christ. NO! Legal-ISM says one can be saved BY LAW-KEEPING. No one here seems to be saying THAT. Where does it say IN THE LAW, "Believe in Christ." It is NOT legalism to say that one must "believe" that Christ can save, before Christ can save that one. Belief is just a human response to information+the prompting of the Spirit. John 1:12 “But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, to those who believe in His name:” By implication, those who do not believe in His name (or who do not yet believe) - who have not “received Him” - are not (or not yet) children of God. Romans 10:14 “But how are they to call on One in whom they have not believed? And how are they to believe in One of whom they have never heard? And how are they to hear without someone to proclaim Him?” (NRS) Romans 10:17 “So faith comes from what is heard, and what is heard comes through the word of Christ.” (NRS) Hearing the gospel message - is essential! II Timothy 1:9 Grace was “given before time began, but has now been “revealed through the gospel.” A human beings CANNOT respond to the grace of God with belief, until he HEARS the gospel. Here's the link to the full article at prophecyviewpoint.com. http://prophecyviewpoint.com/htdocs/Book%20Chapters/1-BOOK%20OF%20LIFE%20-Challenge.pdf I do NOT AGREE with Samie or with Robert. I DO NOT believe that individuals are "born saved'. If they ARE, then we should NOT try to reach them with the Gospel, because that would necessitate a response. And that could risk their salvation. Oh - but THAT would contradict Christ own command, so teach the Gospel to the whole world. Quote 8thdaypriest
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.