only SDA preaching?

[LifeHiscost]

…16So Jesus answered them and said, "My teaching is not Mine, but His who sent Me. 17"If anyone is willing to do His will, he will know of the teaching, whether it is of God or whether I speak from Myself. 18"He who speaks from himself seeks his own glory; but He who is seeking the glory of the One who sent Him, He is true, and there is no unrighteousness in Him.

 

14Now about the midst of the feast Jesus went up into the temple, and taught. 15And the Jews marvelled, saying, How knoweth this man letters, having never learned? 16Jesus answered them, and said, My doctrine is not mine, but his that sent me. 17If any man will do his will, he shall know of the doctrine, whether it be of God, or whether I speak of myself. 18He that speaketh of himself seeketh his own glory: but he that seeketh his glory that sent him, the same is true, and no unrighteousness is in him.…John 7

 

God is Love!  Jesus saves! 

[8thdaypriest]

There's a big difference between who is doing a good job of preaching Jesus "now," and who will be doing a good job of preaching Jesus at the End of Time when the Mark of the Beast is in place and the Loud Cry goes out -- at the present time GOD wants everybody on the path coming towards Him, but at the End He will only accept worship from those who do it "in spirit and in Truth," i.e., those who have all the doctrines correct. Now GOD "winks" at a lot of error that is taught, but don't kid yourself, He doesn't like error! Unfortunately, most believers join their various denominations and then choose to stay there -- they don't realize that the church they joined is just supposed to be a stepping stone to a better church with even more Light...

Sister White wrote that people are "binding themselves into bundles to be burned" by joining the wrong churches or groups of mislead believers -- and the truth is that at some time the LORD stops "winking" because those people are supposed to grow spiritually and be able to discern the Truth, which includes believing and preaching the correct doctrines.

I doubt the "thief on the cross" had all his doctrines just right.

[8thdaypriest]

In order to answer the question, it  seems to me that we must define what the "gospel" is first.  Is the RCC preaching the gospel?  The Baptists?  Presbyterians?  etc.

Gospel = Good News

 

Here's the Good News - in MY OPINION:

 

1.  God loves us

2.  God our Father beget a Son in His exact image

3.  That Son created this world, and then died for this world. 

4.  God resurrected His Son from death.  He now lives.

5.  That Son will write God's Law on our hearts - if we will let Him.  His law will become our nature.

6.  He will give us eternal life - in this earth made new.

7.  The Son of God will destroy everything that hurts or lies.  They will have no place in His Kingdom. 

[JimTN]

Since when does the "thief on the cross" have anything to do with the billions of people living at the End of Time?? The thief on the cross never had a chance to study about accepting Jesus as his Lord & Savior -- but everyone living on this planet right now CAN study about Jesus! And that's the thing, all those people are going to be held responsible for studying about Jesus and understanding the correct interpretations of the Bible's doctrines!

Which is why the majority of mankind will be lost, and only a small remnant saved.

[rudywoofs (Pam)]

Since when does the "thief on the cross" have anything to do with the billions of people living at the End of Time?? The thief on the cross never had a chance to study about accepting Jesus as his Lord & Savior -- but everyone living on this planet right now CAN study about Jesus! And that's the thing, all those people are going to be held responsible for studying about Jesus and understanding the correct interpretations of the Bible's doctrines!

Which is why the majority of mankind will be lost, and only a small remnant saved.

 

wait a minute... the thief on the cross was basically at his own "End of Time"...  And while it's a nice thought, not everyone on this planet has been or will be able to do studying of biblical doctrines..  

[JimTN]

Then I guess the Bible is lying to us... Matthew 24:14 says, "And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached **IN ALL THE WORLD** for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come."

The whole world HAS had the chance to study Scripture -- if people live in a culture where they have chosen to ignore it, then they will have to live with their decision (or die by it).

Remember also, ALL those non-Christian cultures came from the time of the Tower of Babel, AND ALL THE PEOPLE THERE KNEW WHO GOD WAS!

[Robert]

I Is the RCC preaching the gospel?  The Baptists?  Presbyterians?  etc.

No, no and no....

[Robert]

I doubt the "thief on the cross" had all his doctrines just right.

The thief on the cross was saved because of the gospel.  That's why we should preach it.....

[Robert]

Gospel = Good News

 

Here's the Good News - in MY OPINION:

 

1.  God loves us

2.  God our Father beget a Son in His exact image

3.  That Son created this world, and then died for this world. 

4.  God resurrected His Son from death.  He now lives.

5.  That Son will write God's Law on our hearts - if we will let Him.  His law will become our nature.

6.  He will give us eternal life - in this earth made new.

7.  The Son of God will destroy everything that hurts or lies.  They will have no place in His Kingdom. 

 

1] God agapes us.  That means He loves sinners more than Himself because there is no self-love in God's love. God saved us in Christ.  That's the gospel

2] No!  God took the corporate, fallen life of Adam from Mary's womb and combined it with the Divine life of Christ as God.  That Divine life was self-existing, but that fallen life came from Adam.  This life was not in God's image.

3] No!  The creator God, Jesus, created this world.  The creator did not die.  As Ellen White states, "Deity did not sink and die...humanity died"

4] No!  Our corporate, fallen life from Adam died forever.  That's the 2nd death.  At the resurrection Christ was made the last Adam - meaning He has a sinless, immortal, corporate humanity.  Therefore "in Christ" we, by faith, stand before God and His holy law, perfect.

5] His law does not become our nature for our fallen nature doesn't change until the 2nd coming.  What we have is the divine nature residing in us through the Spirit, but it's not our nature, it's God's. Therefore if we consent, His nature can defeat our nature.  That is the fruit of the gospel.

6] At the resurrection.

7] No.  God destroys no man.  Man destroys himself.  How?  By rejecting God.  When God is rejected God has to abandon the unbeliever.  This abandonment leads to the 2nd death.

[JoeMo]

JimTN says:

"And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached **IN ALL THE WORLD** for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come."

 

But it doesn't say that it will only be taught by Christians.  The Spirit of Christ Himself appears to many in dreams and visions and teaches them; and they, in turn, preach the Gospel.

 

He also says, "The whole world HAS had the chance to study Scripture -- if people live in a culture where they have chosen to ignore it, then they will have to live with their decision (or die by it)."

 

That's a little (maybe a lot) harsh.  I sure hope God has a more loving and merciful attitude than you.

 

Robert,

I think Rachel's 7 points are more clear, easy to understand, and accurate than yours.  I think the Gospel is easier to understand than you make it.  It's a faith transaction more than an intellectual or semantic one.  On your 7th point, if God/Jesus destroys no one, why are the 7 last plagues called "the Wrath of God" instead of "The Wrath of Man"?  Admittedly, God does this in defense of the saved and to preserve the future universe;  but it is God's "strange" work.

[JoeMo]

Working off Rachel's 7 points of the Gospel, I saw nothing there that was exclusive to SDA's - like Sabbath-keeping or conditional immortality of the soul.

I would agree that - while those and other issues may be salvational issues for me personally (because I have had the privilege of being taught about them and having it ingrained into my world view) , IMHO they may not be salvational issues for others who have not had the opportunity (or the education) to study scripture for themselves.  They may have received their "doctrine" from someone other than SDAs.  I don't think that will exclude them from heaven.

 

If SDAs have sole responsibility for preaching the Gospel to everyone everywhere, we're in trouble.  I have stated in other threads that I thoroughly support believers of all denominations to unite in those things we have in common (the 7 points listed above is a nice start) to spend our energy and resources preaching this gospel to the unreached rather than spending it fighting and competing with one another over mostly non-salvational issues.  Paul gives good counsel:

 

 "But avoid foolish controversies and genealogies and arguments and quarrels about the law, because these are unprofitable and useless. 10 Warn a divisive person once, and then warn them a second time. After that, have nothing to do with them. 11 You may be sure that such people are warped and sinful; they are self-condemned." (Titus 3:9-11)

 

I believe that everyone who has ever lived will eventually have the opportunity to make an informed and intelligent decision for or against the Kingdom - including all those from past ages who have died in ignorance.

[8thdaypriest]

Let's say I was born a girl, in a poor Muslim country.  My father sells me (for 10 goats) in marriage to an older man who already has 3 wives.  I am basically a slave.  My "husband" beats me if I am not obedient.  I die in childbirth at the age of 14. 

 

WHEN did I ever hear the "Gospel" ?????

 

Jesus said, "This gospel of the kingdom will be preached in all the world as a witness to all the nations, and then the end will come." (Mat 24:14 NKJ) 

We have always assumed that "the END" would be the Second Coming. 

But the SC is NOT the END of things.  It is the END of this age.  But it is NOT the END of Evil. 

Satan is released after the 7th Millennium.

Gog/Magog is the END of the last of the wicked. 

 

THAT is why I believe that all of those who died in ignorance will be resurrected with "the rest of the dead", to HEAR the Gospel, and then to choose whom they will serve.

The Gospel must go to every human being who has ever lived.  That CANNOT happen during this age.  Too many have already died in ignorance, including millions of children, and mentally disabled. 

 

My belief in The 8th Day Kingdom is based on much, much more than just wishful thinking.  There is solid Biblical evidence that many from "the rest of the dead" will come to know the LORD. 

 

Here are links to a few of the chapters from my book "The 8th Day" :

 

http://prophecyviewpoint.com/htdocs/Book%20Chapters/4-An%20Ancient%20Prophecy.pdf

http://prophecyviewpoint.com/htdocs/Book%20Chapters/10-Kingdom%20of%20Priests.pdf

http://prophecyviewpoint.com/htdocs/Book%20Chapters/11-The%208th%20Day.pdf

http://prophecyviewpoint.com/htdocs/Book%20Chapters/14-Gog%20and%20Magog.pdf

http://prophecyviewpoint.com/htdocs/Book%20Chapters/15-Final%20Judgment,%20Lake%20of%20Fire.pdf

 

Blessings,

Rachel Cory

Prophecy Viewpoint

[8thdaypriest]

1] God agapes us.  That means He loves sinners more than Himself because there is no self-love in God's love. God saved us in Christ.  That's the gospel

2] No!  God took the corporate, fallen life of Adam from Mary's womb and combined it with the Divine life of Christ as God.  That Divine life was self-existing, but that fallen life came from Adam.  This life was not in God's image.

3] No!  The creator God, Jesus, created this world.  The creator did not die.  As Ellen White states, "Deity did not sink and die...humanity died"

4] No!  Our corporate, fallen life from Adam died forever.  That's the 2nd death.  At the resurrection Christ was made the last Adam - meaning He has a sinless, immortal, corporate humanity.  Therefore "in Christ" we, by faith, stand before God and His holy law, perfect.

5] His law does not become our nature for our fallen nature doesn't change until the 2nd coming.  What we have is the divine nature residing in us through the Spirit, but it's not our nature, it's God's. Therefore if we consent, His nature can defeat our nature.  That is the fruit of the gospel.

6] At the resurrection.

7] No.  God destroys no man.  Man destroys himself.  How?  By rejecting God.  When God is rejected God has to abandon the unbeliever.  This abandonment leads to the 2nd death.

I'm only going to say that our nature will NOT BE fully healed UNTIL we are returned to the earth, which will be made new. 

The healing is a LONG process. 

It beings as soon as the individual believes. 

 

If you read the CONTEXT of the New Covenant Promise, you will find that Israel (the redeemed) will be "returned to the land" BEFORE

the the law is written on their hearts.  (Ezekiel 36:24-27). 

 

In the prophetic TYPES, an infants was not circumcised UNTIL the 8th Day. 

That was a prophecy.

Redeemed Israel will not be fully and completely circumcised in heart UNTIL the 8th millennium.  [With the LORD a thousand years is as a day.]

 

The "healed" leper could not enter "His House" until the 8th day.

We are lepers.

We will become "priests". 

The leper was anointed with oil.  So was the priest. 

Those to be consecrated for the priesthood had to complete a 7 day consecration. 

They did NOT BEGIN to minister as priests UNTIL the 8th day. 

 

The man who touched a dead body also was not "clean" until the 8th day  (sundown of the 7th day), even though he had washed in the water with the ashes of the red heifer on the 3rd day and on the 7th day. 

 

The TYPES are everywhere in Scripture. 

 

Why do some SDAs think that all truth has already been revealed????

[RonP]

There are two things that we as Adventists and people of the Book, should be preaching that others do not.

 

The first is the fact that a male lamb's blood was NEVER used in the sanctuary building for forgiveness of sins!  The ordinary sin offering was a FEMALE GOAT for the commoner, or a bull for a priest.  Leviticus 4:27 and 3.  The blood from the female goat for the ordinary person was sprinkled on the altar in the courtyard, and the balance poured on the ground.  Only a bull's blood ever went into the building before the D of A.

 

 

The second is that the atonement was NOT completed on the cross! Right from the beginning we have taught this. See what was printed in the very first issue of the "Signs of the Times" by its editor, James White. "Signs of the Times".

 

Even though the word has two distinct meanings in Scripture, neither one was completed on the cross. The first meaning of "atonement" is in the daily cleansing. When a sinner (in the Old or New Testaments) approaches the Sanctuary (Christ) for forgiveness and cleansing then his or her sin is removed AT THAT TIME by virtue of the love that is in Jesus. This is made plain in 1 John 1:9. "If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness". This cleansing is for the individual and occurs whenever the sinner comes for it, before or after Calvary. It is Christ who does the cleansing, not the ritual. It is Christ's "sacrifice" as the Son of God which does it, not the apparent death of a human on a cross at Calvary, therefore it has been available since the first sinner sinned the first sin. "The Saviour typified in the rites and ceremonies of the Jewish law is the very same that is revealed in the gospel... The teacher is the same in both dispensations. God's claims are the same. The principles of His government are the same. For all proceed from Him "with whom is no variableness, neither shadow of turning. James 1:17". Patriarchs & Prophets, page 373.002.

 

However, the word of God also mentions another cleansing. This is in Leviticus 16:30. "For on that day shall the Priest make an atonement for you, to cleanse you, that you may be clean from ALL your sins before the LORD". Here the word "you" has a plural meaning. It includes all the nation of Israel (all the Christians). The earthly pattern of this "cleansing" occurred during a special ceremony which was carried out only on the Day of Atonement which was the 10th day of the 7th month in the Jewish calendar, and is therefore known as the yearly cleansing. It occupied about two hours out of the twenty-four of that "Day" and represented the final cleansing when all the sins of all the Christians are removed from Christ and placed where they should be. Both cleansings are available today through the ministration of Christ our High Priest in the second apartment of the heavenly sanctuary. See "Great Controversy", pages 409-432 for more on this subject.

 

The SDA church was called into existence to proclaim this fact, and in this we should differ from the majority of professed Christian churches of the world.

 

The fact is that the real "Day of Atonement" began on October 22, 1844 and will continue until the end of the world. Yes, that means that the D of A continues until the end of the millenium. All this is set out in Leviticus chapter 16 and was given to the church by O.R.L. Crosier in 1846 in an article in the "Daystar" paper. (His article is available free of charge by clicking these words.) Crosier was one of the group who studied with the Hiram Edson who was the person who had a vision of Christ moving from the 1st apartment into the 2nd on October 23, 1844. See "Historical Prologue", in "Early Writings", pages xviii and xix.

Crosier's points were that:

 

"It is said that the atonement was made and finished at Calvary. This has no support in the Mosaic law.

"Who makes the Atonement? The high priest. Who was in charge at Calvary? Romans and wicked Jews.

"The death was not the atonement. It was after the death that the high priest took the blood and made the atonement.

"Christ is the High Priest and He could not have made the atonement until after His resurrection.

"The atonement is made in the sanctuary in Jerusalem, but Calvary was not that place.

"Christ could not make the atonement while on earth for He was not a priest while on earth.

"Therefore He could not make the atonement until after His ascension".

› › › › › › ›

 

Ellen White's comment on Crosier's article was:

"I believe the Sanctuary, to be cleansed at the end of the 2300 days, is the New Jerusalem Temple, of which Christ is a minister. The Lord showed me in vision, more than one year ago, that Brother Crosier had the true light, on the cleansing of the Sanctuary etc., and that it was His will, that Brother C. should write out the view which he gave us in the Day-Star, Extra, February 7, 1846. I feel fully authorized by the Lord, to recommend that Extra, to every saint".

[stinsonmarri]

I wonder do Adventist today truly read their Bible because, I have read somethings that have shocked me in these comments. I know that 8thdaypriest do not believe in the Investigated Judgment. But many have not taken a real look at how the end time scenario works! Have any of you took the time to understand Hiram Edison's vision and EGW first vision? They both are found in Daniel Chapters 8-12 and Rev Chapters 4-22.

Daniel was given the Investigated Judgement through the Time of Trouble. He also was given probation as well but he just did not understand it all! The angel told him very clearly to close the book until knowledge increase then it would be revealed. ELOHIM gave to HIS SON which folks are TWO separate BEINGS not one like the trinity but THEY are ONE like what the Hebrew word echad means. I would ask you to please take time and look up what words mean.

A Revelation of YAHSHUA MESSIAH which YAHWEH gave to HIM to show to HIS servant things which must shortly come to pass. And HE signified by sending through His angel to His servant, John, Rev 1:1

John saw the complete view that Daniel saw, but in complete detail. John saw YAHSHUA first working as THE HIGH PRIEST in THE HOLY PLACE, then the scene changed in Rev Chapter 4. What was introduce was THE MOST HOLY PLACE with YAHWEH ELOHIM sitting on HIS Throne, and the Bible said "the door was open in Heaven." For the first time since Moses saw THE MOST HOLY PLACE man was allow once again to see the view!

In the 1800's knowledge did increase and all the sciences that were held back by the Catholic Church was beginning to be understood. It was at this very time as ELOHIM told Daniel that HIS Knowledge would increase at well. Hiram saw and understood the true meaning of the Day of Atonement. It only needed to be done once. Aaron was the third earthly High Priest and he had to pray for his and his family sins first, then the congregation. If he or his family had not confess their sins, he would have been struck dead!!!!!

In Chapters 5-6, that even the Adventist misunderstood because we don't read EGW first book, Early Writings! She told us very clear on page 220, that words have been changed and she is right. If you know about history and how the Bible was written you would understand this. Once again, the Catholic Church destroyed the original Hebrew manuscripts and the Greeks manuscripts were tainted with error. The closet manuscripts was the Peshitta text and the Shem Toḇ text.

There are close to 28 000 Greek manuscripts or fragments containing all or part of the Messianic Scriptures. The alarming fact is that “every one of these handwritten copies differs from every other one!” This being the case then, which one was the Greek manuscript breathed-out by the Almighty? Institute for Scripture Research

However, the discovery of the Dead Sea Scroll showed true light on the Scriptures and that is was written in a Paleo Hebrew Script and the Masoretes did help with vowels. The reason is knowledge and understanding transliteration versus translation! With the helping hand of THE HOLY SPIRIT, THE THIRD BEING in the unity who work together with THE OTHER TWO ELOHIM. HIS work is to lead us into all truth and to help us to understand the Knowledge of THE FATHER and THE SON!

THE SON as our true HIGH PRIEST who one time now enters THE MOST HOLY PLACE as our ADVOCATOR before HIS FATHER THE JUDGE! The Book taken out of THE FATHER'S HAND was the Book of Life, the horses represented the earth from Eden to the Middle Ages, when the earth itself begin to die! The riders were man, the first saved Adam and Eve and each period of time souls were saved had to be sealed, those who were finally sealed before the Time of Trouble was the 144,000! This is what EGW saw and what Daniel saw the "wise teachers," also YAHSHUA stated, the five wise virgins! John saw them twice before they witness to the world and after they done their work, which was explained in Chapter 14, that we label the three angels message. Have you read the whole chapter? The great multitude is the ones who will hear the words:

And one of the elders answered, saying unto me, what are these which are arrayed in white robes? And whence came they? And I said unto him, sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, these are they which came out of great tribulation. And have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of THE LAMB. Therefore, are they before the Throne of YAHWEH ELOHIM, and serve HIM day and night in HIS Temple. And HE that sitteth on the Throne shall dwell among them. They shall hunger no more, neither thirst anymore; neither shall the sun light on them, nor any heat. Rev 7:13-15

The Bible says very clearly that "the Gospel shall be preached to all the world," which it is true. Everyone will have to made a choice at that time, many dead people will be raised by the 144,000 and others healed by them as well so people of every religion and belief also non-belief, even Satanist, witchcraft of all sort all people will change and be saved! The the Gospel says:

And the dragon was enraged over the woman, and went away to make war with the rest of her seed, those keeping the Commandments of YAHWEH ELOHIM, and having THE TESTIMONY of YAHSHUA MESSIAH. Rev 12:17

The seed is not a church, how can it be with some are the five foolish or tares! The five wise and the great multitude together make up the remnant not just Adventist, because they will have both the knowledge and the understanding of THE FATHER'S Commands and THE TESTIMONY of YAHSHUA ELOHIM our MESSIAH! Then the end will come, that is probation and once again Daniel was given the exact time of probation. It will come after the 3 1/2 years of the Time of Trouble, but that is the time you will not know when it will start, you best to be ready to die a martyr or be one of the "wise teachers." Here is probation time, can you figure it out, I did? Here is the answers and the clues it is easier if you allow THE HOLY SPIRIT to give you ELOHIM'S Wisdom:

MY people perish for lack of knowledge. Because you rejected the knowledge, I also rejected you from being priest to ME. Since you have forgotten the Torah of your YAHWEH ELOHIM, I will forget your sons, even I. Hos 4:6

And made us kings and priests to YAHWEH, even HIS FATHER. To HIM is THE GLORY and THE MIGHT FOREVER and EVER. Amen. Rev 1:6

Many shall be purified and made white and refined. But the wicked shall do wickedly. And not one of the wicked shall discern, but the wise shall discern. And from the time the continual shall be taken away, and the abomination that desolates set up, there shall be a thousand, two hundred and ninety days. Blessed is he who waits and reaches to the thousand, three hundred and thirty five days. But you go on to the end, for you shall rest and stand for your lot at the end of the days. Dan 12:10-13

For there will be great suffering, such as has not happened from the beginning of the world until now, no, nor ever will be. And when you see the sign of uncleanness and desolation, that was spoken of by Daniel the prophet, which will stand in the holy place. He that reads let him understand. (Dan. 11:31; Dan. 12:11): And except those days were shortened, not any flesh would live. But on account of the chosen, those days will be shortened. Mat 24:15, 21, 22

And I will give to MY Two Witnesses, and they will prophesy a thousand, two hundred and sixty days, dressed in sackcloth. And when they complete their witness, the beast coming up out of the abyss will make war with them, and will overcome them, and will kill them. Rev 11:3, 7

And the ten horns which you saw on the beast, these will hate the harlot, and will make her desolated and naked. And they will eat her flesh, and will burn her down with fire. For Elohim gave into their hearts to do His mind, and to act in one mind, and to give their kingdom to the beast, until the Words of Elohim shall be fulfilled. Rev 17:16, 17

Happy Sabbath, blessings!

[Robert]

I'm only going to say that our nature will NOT BE fully healed UNTIL we are returned to the earth, which will be made new. 

 

There's no healing of our natures. Our natures remain 100% sinful until the day we die.

[12tribes]

Matthew 24:14 (KJV)  "And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come."

 

Does this mean only SDA preaching, and SDA doctrine?  Or is the SDA church considered only part of the way the gospel is preached?

The signs in Matthew 24 were for both the destruction of Jerusalem and the end of the world. The gospel went to all the world before the destruction of Jerusalem.

 

Colossians 1:23 KJV

(23)  If ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard, and which was preached to every creature which is under heaven; whereof I Paul am made a minister;