I've started filming the police

[lazarus]

I made the decision the start filming police stops and activity when I can.

 

I was driving my son to a basketball workout on Sunday. We passed by three state troopers surronding a kid who was sitting on the kerb. I said to my son, " I think we should stop". He said "I was thinking the same thing". I swung the car around. We stopped and I got out and filmed from distance of about 30 feet for about 8 minutes. We left when they left. Cop asked me if he was going to be famous. I said "probably not".

[GayatfootofCross]

i believe in good cops and I'm still waiting for one to stand up and say "NO WE WONT HELP COVER THIS UP!" . ..Breaking ranks.. uhhh... in the cop culture if you break ranks and be honest and stand up u will be ostracized and you can lose everything! A Good Cop stands up when evil is done!!!!!!!!!!! Not just go by the rules. Not just restraining him/herself when it gets bad (though it helps). Good Cops see thugs as humans and need protection under the law when the other cop goes psyco . Good Cops will serve and protect.One bad apple in the barrel ? The barrel itself is bad!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Where are they?

 

"Dispatcher,we need a new barrel."

[LifeHiscost]

i believe in good cops and I'm still waiting for one to stand up and say "NO WE WONT HELP COVER THIS UP!"

 

"Dispatcher,we need a new barrel."

Makes it easier for me to see the logic in this scripture.

 

25"He who loves his life loses it, and he who hates his life in this world will keep it to life eternal....John 12

 

God is Love!  Jesus saves! 

[Sojourner]

Would you have filmed the police officers if they were black or native american? 

[lazarus]

Would you have filmed the police officers if they were black or native american? 

 

Why would I film a black officer? We all know black officers are immune from the corruption that exists police departments accross the country !!! I think there was a study that said black officers usually let black suspects off.

 

I would definitely film a Native American officer if he couldn't prove his Native American Hertiage. For example if he was claiming to be Cherokee and could not prove the 1/32 Cherokee in his lineage then the camera would have to come out.

[GayatfootofCross]

Why would I film a black officer? We all know black officers are immune from the corruption that exists police departments accross the country !!! I think there was a study that said black officers ususally let black suspects off.

 

I would definitely film a Native American officer if he couldn't prove his Native American Hertiage. For example if he was claiming to be Cherokee and could not prove the 1/32 Cherokee in his lineage then the camera would have to come out.

 

I read this three times and still chuckling.

[fccool]

Why would I film a black officer? We all know black officers are immune from the corruption that exists police departments accross the country !!! I think there was a study that said black officers usually let black suspects off.

 

I would definitely film a Native American officer if he couldn't prove his Native American Hertiage. For example if he was claiming to be Cherokee and could not prove the 1/32 Cherokee in his lineage then the camera would have to come out.

 

Hmm... ow many times do you thank them for job well done?   I guess harassing them at their work is a better way to go, because obviously all they do is abusing their power. 

 

While you are at it, how about stop by the local mechanics shop, and your hospital.   A lot of doctors misuse their position, and so do many mechanics as they rip people off.   If few do that, why not make sure to film everyone.   I have a better idea.   How about implanting a recoding devices in everyone's head?  People can't be trusted in general.

[LifeHiscost]

Hmm... ow many times do you thank them for job well done?   I guess harassing them at their work is a better way to go, because obviously all they do is abusing their power. 

 

While you are at it, how about stop by the local mechanics shop, and your hospital.   A lot of doctors misuse their position, and so do many mechanics as they rip people off.   If few do that, why not make sure to film everyone.   I have a better idea.   How about implanting a recoding devices in everyone's head?  People can't be trusted in general.

I would except those who willingly accept and ask for the promises God fulfills to His own.

 

7"If you abide in Me, and My words abide in you, ask whatever you wish, and it will be done for you. 8"My Father is glorified by this, that you bear much fruit, and so prove to be My disciples.…John 15

 

If one denies God will not answer faithfully what He has promised, that would indicate we don't believe Him, or at least have not felt that could be His will for those little ones He is as able to raise whole from the grave, just as He is able to answer our prayers for our own salvation.

 

…51Behold, I tell you a mystery; we will not all sleep, but we will all be changed, 52in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet; for the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed. 53For this perishable must put on the imperishable, and this mortal must put on immortality.…1 Corinthians 15

 

God is Love!  Jesus saves! 

[lazarus]

Hmm... ow many times do you thank them for job well done?  

 

One of the problems with attacking someone you don't know online is that you can make a fool of yourself.

 

For the record:

 

• Every year we invite our local poilce and fire service to our community fun day program. They come. We present them with a fruit platter and other "goodies"and of course thank them.
• We, in the past, have gone to our local station and have prayed for the officers and their families. Officers have joined in.
• Prayed for their equipment, cars etc as we prayer walk in our community.
• Officers routinely park in our parking lot to take breaks etc. We have 12 acres on our property which is bounded on three sides by apartments. They routinely drive around our property and I regularly thank them for that. 
• Several times a week I am in local high schools and middle schools. I do counseling work for YMCA. I have about 6 clients at the moment. Most high schools have a police officer on site. More often than not we exchange words, perhaps a joke and occasionally I say thanks.
• I recently received an email threat from someone I know. This person had been fired from their federal armed security position and was mad at a lot of people. The police took care of that situation promptly. When they called me to update me can you guess what I said to them?

Your turn......

 

" I guess harassing them at their work is a better way to go, because obviously all they do is abusing their power.  :)"

 

Harassing? If you think filming is harassing then perhaps you haven't been paying attention to the news recently. Who said all they do is abuse their power? Your overstatement is not helpful to the discussion. I can get that someone would object to my filming the police but taking a cheap shot blunts your objection. Maybe you have a personal stake that's why you've gone this route.

 

Furthermore, what's with the smiley face? Seems rather incongruous since there seems to be some irritation or anger behind your words.

 

"While you are at it, how about stop by the local mechanics shop, and your hospital.   A lot of doctors misuse their position, and so do many mechanics as they rip people off.   If few do that, why not make sure to film everyone.   I have a better idea.   How about implanting a recoding devices in everyone's head?  People can't be trusted in general"

 

LOL. mechanics?

[lazarus]

I would except those who willingly accept and ask for the promises God fulfills to His own.

 

7"If you abide in Me, and My words abide in you, ask whatever you wish, and it will be done for you. 8"My Father is glorified by this, that you bear much fruit, and so prove to be My disciples.…John 15

 

If one denies God will not answer faithfully what He has promised, that would indicate we don't believe Him, or at least have not felt that could be His will for those little ones He is as able to raise whole from the grave, just as He is able to answer our prayers for our own salvation.

 

…51Behold, I tell you a mystery; we will not all sleep, but we will all be changed, 52in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet; for the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed. 53For this perishable must put on the imperishable, and this mortal must put on immortality.…1 Corinthians 15

 

God is Love!  Jesus saves! 

 

So.... I did something just for fun. I picked a text at random and I thought I'd post it. I had no idea what Ezekiel 22 said. LiveHisCost try picking texts at random you might get better results.....

 

Ezekiel 22 The word of the Lord came to me:

² “Son of man, will you judge her? Will you judge this city of bloodshed? Then confront her with all her detestable practices ³ and say: ‘This is what the Sovereign Lord says: You city that brings on herself doom by shedding blood in her midst and defiles herself by making idols, ⁴ you have become guilty because of the blood you have shed and have become defiled by the idols you have made. You have brought your days to a close, and the end of your years has come. Therefore I will make you an object of scorn to the nations and a laughingstock to all the countries. ⁵ Those who are near and those who are far away will mock you, you infamous city, full of turmoil.

 

See...it's kind of relevant and I didn't even try!

[fccool]

One of the problems with attacking someone you don't know online is that you can make a fool of yourself.

 

For the record:

 

• Every year we invite our local poilce and fire service to our community fun day program. They come. We present them with a fruit platter and other "goodies"and of course thank them. ...

 

 

  That's a bit irrelevant to the point you are trying to make.   It's a bit like saying "I'm not a racist.  I invite black people for dinner twice a year".

 

  I'm not against filming the police, but it's the same statist mentality that a state employs to listen through your phone conversations, comb through your financial records... etc.

 

  I personally wouldn't like to be filmed by strangers when I'm doing my job.   Not because I have something to hide, but because it can get very aggravating in a stressful scenario.   I don't imagine policeman would be any different.

 

Harassing? If you think filming is harassing then perhaps you haven't been paying attention to the news recently.

 

Yes, I have been watching news.  And I think you out of all people should see the disproportionate coverage of certain sensationalized fear-mongering.... like awfully lot of black people on TV committing crime.   Should we start filming suspicious black people everywhere they go and everything they do?   Come on man.

 

Definition of harassment - To subject (another) to hostile or prejudicial remarks or actions

 

For example, filming people because of the assumption that they may do something terribly wrong

 

 

Who said all they do is abuse their power? Your overstatement is not helpful to the discussion. I can get that someone would object to my filming the police but taking a cheap shot blunts your objection. Maybe you have a personal stake that's why you've gone this route.

 

 

You don't have to say it... it's implied.   I have no personal stake other than deep understanding of what these people go through and sacrifice and still face constant mistrust and misplaced anger.   If you have someone like Michael Brown shot... don't blame the police.  Someone should point a finger at his parents, and his thug friends.  They are the problem... not the police.

 

 

I'm not a fan of any type of prejudice anymore than you are,  but you are barking up the wrong tree.   Yes, there is isolated police brutality, but it has to be contextualized in what these people have to do with on daily bases and what it does to their mind and perception of other people.    They are dealing with a lot of black-on-black crime, and they do form certain perception and a level of dislike that will drive their subsequent actions.  

 

I think you better film and confront gang-bangers instead... but that's a lot more difficult to do, and can get you shot.  But, filming the police... that makes a lot more sense.

 

Furthermore, what's with the smiley face? Seems rather incongruous since there seems to be some irritation or anger behind your words.

 

 

Most of the communication is non-verbal, and I throw one or two to generally point out that I'm not here to yell at you in anger.  I'm trying to have a conversation, and sarcasm is something that I can't get rid of since that's the way I've been brought up.  So, I clarify that I'm not against you or despise you when I'm discussing these issues.

 

LOL. mechanics?

 

 

Why not?  The idea here is documenting potential injustice, right?   Why do you stop with police?  Seems a bit prejudicial to me when it comes to the scope of the societal injustice.

 

I've already mentioned potential gang-bangers...  would you film them?  Or do you just call the police and then film?

[B/W Photodude]

One of the problems with attacking someone you don't know online is that you can make a fool of yourself.

 

 

LOL. mechanics?

 

Boy, you got that right about online harassment! Some don't write much of anything here except putdowns.

 

Oh! Mechanics? Apparently you aren't aware that many people get ripped off by repairs that were never needed or asked for. I took my car in once and they said I needed my "jets cleaned"! The car was running ok, so I said no. Next time I took my car in at another dealer, I asked how my jets were. The mechanic said they were fine! Dishonesty in the auto repair business is why some ask for all the old parts back.

 

FWIW, I don't think auto mechanics are any more dishonest than any other profession. And yes, dishonesty occurs in the medical profession. One of the reasons when staff sees what appears to be an unnecessary procedure being done, they just wonder if the doc has a Porche payment due!

 

http://www.cartalk.com/content/today-how-handle-dishonest-mechanic

[fccool]

Here's the point.

 

A lot of "black anger" that I see is a form of media exploitation, with other black people getting rich of because they form power structures around exploiting that anger.   I grew up in post-Soviet environment, and race has nothing to do with it.  Race just happened to be an issue in US in this case and the cards fell where they did.

 

The problem in black communities:

 

1)  Lack of education

2)  Improper education that's fed through the channels that exploit that lack of education through pushing "status products" that suppose to cover up the social inadequacies.   (You will be revered if you own this, or if you be like these guys doing these things .... because this is our way)

 

3)  Cycle of exploitation that begins with corporate media and ends with prison industrial complex

 

The way I see it, cops are caught in between all of this dealing with uneducated and violent people (not just black criminals), which distorts their perception.   I have many cop friends, and one of them admitted that he has innate aversion to black people that comes not as a conscious decision, but as a base instinct because of the things he has to deal with on daily bases.   He consciously fights it, and has to constantly remind himself that such is not the case for all blacks,  but instincts do form... and these can take over in a situation where instincts do take over.

 

I don't think that it should be excusable, but it's not very surprising... and filming it doesn't solve the problem at all, especially since you are not there most of the time when police deals with crime.   You can document the arrest, but you filming provides distorted context of what may be going on, and may feed into "police hate black people" type of mentality that will only drive black anger and see their violence against police and "the man" to be a form of a justified war.

 

If it's war that you want... then you are certainly doing the right thing.   If you want justice, then spend more effort on educating younger generation.   Do more sports camps.  Give them something productive to do other than hang out on the streets looking for trouble.   Basketball was my way out of extreme poverty... simply because it gave me discipline to deal with problems, and confidence to confront certain issues.   There are plentiful ways to educate youth other than expect them to come to church and be bored to death with a lecture.

[lazarus]

  That's a bit irrelevant to the point you are trying to make.   It's a bit like saying "I'm not a racist.  I invite black people for dinner twice a year".

 

Irrelevant? Dude, you are the one who implied that I didn't say thank you. You could make a number of good points dismissing my list of thank yous but irrelevant is not one of them.

 

I think you forgot to say how often and when you say thank you to the police.

 

 

I'm not against filming the police,

 

OK. So we agree then.

 

 

For example, filming people because of the assumption that they may do something terribly wrong

 

These are not just people. They are public servants and are not being held accountable by mayors, prosecutors etc.

 

 

They are dealing with a lot of black-on-black crime, and they do form certain perception and a level of dislike that will drive their subsequent actions.

 

What kind of crime do white people commit? Black on black crime is a racist construct since most crime committed by whites is against whites but you don't hear whites talk about on white on white crime.

 

 

I think you better film and confront gang-bangers instead... but that's a lot more difficult to do, and can get you shot.  But, filming the police... that makes a lot more sense.

 

My work when it comes to gangs involves doing the work with boys before they get into the gang. I just wrapped up a 12 week group with middle school boys.  We've held meetings at our church for community parents helping them to look for the signs of gang activity.

 

We know that filming the police has an impact because of the move to use body cameras.

 

What are you doing?

[lazarus]

Lyndon,

 

I sense that your car is very important to you. I also get the sense that the people who have lost loved ones to gun violence gang, police or otherwise also feel they are important. Go ahead film your mechanic.

[fccool]

Irrelevant? Dude, you are the one who implied that I didn't say thank you. You could make a number of good points dismissing my list of thank yous but irrelevant is not one of them.

I didn't imply that you didn't say thank you.   I've implied that the spirit of distrust that leads you to suspect that any and every police confrontation should be videotaped due to potential of abuse ... doesn't reflect such spirit.

It's like bugging your wife every time she's out of the door because there are some women out there who cheat.

 

OK. So we agree then.

Somehow I think that may not be the case

 

These are not just people. They are public servants and are not being held accountable by mayors, prosecutors etc.

???  I think that's a rather broad statement to make, and I think it's actually a result of misunderstanding what a job of a cop is.   It's not there to make judgement about guilt or innocence of any given person.   They are their to enforce the law and prevent potential crime.  With that in mind you'll have a lot of mix up situations in which apprehended suspects will not be guilty, but the issue is that the continuum of force (look it up) that guides engagement behavior still applies.

The reason for the "lack of accountability" is because of the general public misunderstanding of the "continuum of force" guidelines that are used to apprehend suspects and bring them in for any given decision.  They are limited in the judgement decisions they get to do about someone's guilt or involvement, and it's not really something you can easily sort out in the streets most of the time.

For example...

 

If someone told Eric Garner about use of force continuum protocol... it's possible that the guy could still be alive.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Use_of_force_continuum

Police followed the protocol to the dot.  They verbally attempted to de-escalate situation.  The guy was till acting aggressively, and refused to comply with verbal cooperation, which lead to empty hand submission technique which resulted in his unfortunate death in the process.

Had he complied, he'd still be alive.

THE POINT IS:  It's stupid and silly to attempt convince the police about your innocence.  It's not their job to judge that.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/posteverything/wp/2014/08/19/im-a-cop-if-you-dont-want-to-get-hurt-dont-challenge-me/

 

What kind of crime do white people commit? Black on black crime is a racist construct since most crime committed by whites is against whites but you don't hear whites talk about on white on white crime.

  I'm not here to say that any given black person are more predisposed to the life of crime than a white or Hispanic.    The issue is with disproportional representation of "black and Hispanic crime" compared to "white crime".

http://www.amren.com/archives/reports/the-color-of-crime/

The racial make up of the crime wouldn't be an issue had it not been immensely disproportional.   Again, I'm not going to sit here and make up stories about "Black people are just more criminal and terrible".    There's a history of structurally-imposed poverty that was carried out through racial discrimination in this country's past. This history created disproportionate rates of cyclical poverty when we compare black and white rate of poverty, crime, education and etc.   I deeply empathize with historical context of this situation.  But to call it a "cop accountability issue" is a load of bunk.  There's a real problem with violence in poor black neighborhoods.   It's not something that news makes up.

I don't think that we can deal with the issue by pretending that it doesn't exists.   It's a real issue and statistics reflects it.  I grew up in Northwest Miami, so I know very well which parts of the town is perceived safer.    It ain't Northwest for sure

http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/crime-in-the-u.s/2011/crime-in-the-u.s.-2011/tables/table-43

Cops assigned to patrol these neighborhood will naturally face higher rate of reports an incidents then when they are patrolling racially mixed or white neighborhood.   It's a statistical fact... again  I'm not making it up because I want to hate black people.

Digging your head in the sand and blaming cops for it won't solve any of these problems.

My work when it comes to gangs involves doing the work with boys before they get into the gang. I just wrapped up a 12 week group with middle school boys.  We've held meetings at our church for community parents helping them to look for the signs of gang activity.

I can certainly appreciate your efforts in that area.

We know that filming the police has an impact because of the move to use body cameras.

  It may make police more careful, but the continuum of force is there to stay as a guideline that these cops are judged by.   Body cameras will not prevent cops putting a guy who is resisting arrest and is non-compliant into a violent submission.   It will actually give them more documented reasons to demonstrate that they are following the protocol to the dot.

In short... there needs to be a great deal of education going on on how to properly behave around cops.

 

What are you doing?

Besides being an employer and a father...  I get involved through sports, which I see as my mission field.   It helped me in life, and I see it as a great way to cultivate discipline, character and work ethic in young people.    I played some professionally oversees, and in college level here.   That has been predominantly my outlet for community service.  I also make a point to make sure that young people know how to properly deal with police.

[Gerr]

I made the decision the start filming police stops and activity when I can.

 

I was driving my son to a basketball workout on Sunday. We passed by three state troopers surronding a kid who was sitting on the kerb. I said to my son, " I think we should stop". He said "I was thinking the same thing". I swung the car around. We stopped and I got out and filmed from distance of about 30 feet for about 8 minutes. We left when they left. Cop asked me if he was going to be famous. I said "probably not".

​That's good, Laz.  We need to expose the wrong, whether on the  part of the police making the arrest or the part of the suspect.  BTW, I just saw the pictures of the six policemen who were indicted on the death of Freddie Gray.  Three look black and the other three look white. 

Edited May 2, 2015 by Gerry Cabalo

[lazarus]

"  I've implied that the spirit of distrust that leads you to suspect that any and every police confrontation should be videotaped due to potential of abuse ... doesn't reflect such spirit."

The are jurisdictions across the country that are introducing body cams. This is an example of being able to have appreciation for the work of police and holding them accountable. They are not mutually exclusive.

"It's like bugging your wife every time she's out of the door because there are some women out there who cheat."

Not a very good analogy. I know my wife, I live with her and believe as a result of experience that she is honest and true to her vows. I am careful with women I don't know. As a pastor I take appropriate measures to keep the boundaries clear because of the women who cheat. There are police that I know and trust. The officer who may stop me has the potential to abuse his power and therefore I will record him.

  ' I have many cop friends'

This explains a lot about your responses.

  "one of them admitted that he has innate aversion to black people that comes not as a conscious decision, but as a base instinct because of the things he has to deal with on daily bases.   He consciously fights it, and has to constantly remind himself that such is not the case for all blacks,  but instincts do form... and these can take over in a situation where instincts do take over."

White people may find this understandable. Most black people would find this reprehensible. This disclosure has an impact on your continuum of force argument. One's judgement about the nature and disposition of the "suspect" dictates your use of force. For your friend there would be different attitude and perhaps treatment of  a black teen than a white teen. This is the essence of the problem

"???  I think that's a rather broad statement to make, and I think it's actually a result of misunderstanding what a job of a cop is."

 

It is definitely a broad statement but that does not make it untrue. Cities pay millions of dollars in damages but seldom is a cop charged or dismissed as a result of the crimes. The lack of accountability is because of old fashioned corruption. I think most people understand what a cops job is.

 

"and filming it doesn't solve the problem at all, especially since you are not there most of the time when police deals with crime.   You can document the arrest, but you filming provides distorted context of what may be going on, and may feed into "police hate black people" type of mentality that will only drive black anger and see their violence against police and "the man" to be a form of a justified war."

I think you are incorrect in your assumptions and assertions.

http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/Justice/2015/0501/Study-shows-that-with-police-body-cameras-everyone-behaves-better-video

“They found that the officers wearing the cameras had 87.5 percent fewer incidents of use of force and 59 percent fewer complaints than the officers not wearing the cameras,” the report states. “One of the important findings of the study was the impact BWCs might have on the self-awareness of officers and citizens alike. When police officers are acutely aware that their behavior is being monitored (because they turn on the cameras), and when officers tell citizens that the cameras are recording their behavior, everyone behaves better. The results of this study are highly suggestive that this increase in self-awareness contributes to more positive outcomes in police-citizen interaction.” 

"There are plentiful ways to educate youth other than expect them to come to church and be bored to death with a lecture."

Perhaps you need to go to another church.

Edited May 3, 2015 by lazarus

[Robert]

Cops are folks with natures too and many go into these positions for the power (pay isn't so good), but power tends to corrupt, so please do keep them accountable with your camera.

 

 

Edited May 3, 2015 by Robert

[Sojourner]

There are various cases of where Pastors have been involved crimes against children, maybe following the same logic, all pastors should be filmed when sighted in the company of children also?

[fccool]

The are jurisdictions across the country that are introducing body cams. This is an example of being able to have appreciation for the work of police and holding them accountable. They are not mutually exclusive.

My objection is not about what you can do.   There are a lot of things you can do, but it doesn't mean that these things will make the world a better place.

 

"It's like bugging your wife every time she's out of the door because there are some women out there who cheat."

Not a very good analogy. I know my wife, I live with her and believe as a result of experience that she is honest and true to her vows. I am careful with women I don't know. As a pastor I take appropriate measures to keep the boundaries clear because of the women who cheat. There are police that I know and trust. The officer who may stop me has the potential to abuse his power and therefore I will record him.

There are plenty of people who you trust on day to day bases who you don't know, and who are in a scope of a service that has a high rate of fraud/abuse.

The question is about consistency, and why would cops be any different in such case?  Saying that they are "public servants" doesn't negate the fact that they are doing a job in a commercial scope of the public work. 

Again, my issue is not simply about filming the police, but about providing external context which may not be correct.  If you turn on the camera in the middle of police confrontation where a police "violently subdue another black man"... the media doesn't care about the context of such confrontation.   Likewise, a lot of people are simply unaware of use of force continuum which can lead to such police action.

 

  ' I have many cop friends'

This explains a lot about your responses.

Yes, it may explain my precense of insight that may be lacking or providing proper context for escalation of force in police action.  But you don't need cops as friends to know or ask these questions.   None of these friends are close friends, but I do ask about their perspective on these issues as often as I can.   I don't automatically take their side all the time because they are my friends.

 

White people may find this understandable. Most black people would find this reprehensible. This disclosure has an impact on your continuum of force argument. One's judgement about the nature and disposition of the "suspect" dictates your use of force. For your friend there would be different attitude and perhaps treatment of  a black teen than a white teen. This is the essence of the problem

Not really.   Use of force continuum has a very strict level of objective parameters, but cops do form stereotypes based on their experience in dealing with various groups of people.   It's not necessarily a negative or wrong thing to do.   As people we do it all the time for obvious reasons.

 

"???  I think that's a rather broad statement to make, and I think it's actually a result of misunderstanding what a job of a cop is."

 

It is definitely a broad statement but that does not make it untrue. Cities pay millions of dollars in damages but seldom is a cop charged or dismissed as a result of the crimes. The lack of accountability is because of old fashioned corruption. I think most people understand what a cops job is.

I've dealt with plentiful police corruption in my life.  I'm actually in this country because it's one of the few ones where police take their jobs seriously. 

Most people who cause a scene and outburst at the time of detention tend to misunderstand the context, and it tends to escalate and cause issues.  Most of such "police brutality" and "police abuse" cases can be prevented with simple compliance.  When you comply and are polite, it doesn't matter what your race is or what your socio-economic status is...  there's a very slim chance that police will "abuse you".

I'm not saying that there isn't any genuine brutality and racism, but I hear a lot of rhetoric from media and certain groups that simply over-hypes the issue and feeds into escalation of situations where police make legitimate detentions.  

 

I think you are incorrect in your assumptions and assertions.

http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/Justice/2015/0501/Study-shows-that-with-police-body-cameras-everyone-behaves-better-video

“They found that the officers wearing the cameras had 87.5 percent fewer incidents of use of force and 59 percent fewer complaints than the officers not wearing the cameras,” the report states. “One of the important findings of the study was the impact BWCs might have on the self-awareness of officers and citizens alike. When police officers are acutely aware that their behavior is being monitored (because they turn on the cameras), and when officers tell citizens that the cameras are recording their behavior, everyone behaves better. The results of this study are highly suggestive that this increase in self-awareness contributes to more positive outcomes in police-citizen interaction.” 

Sure, in case of police wearing cameras... that can be the case, because people aware of being filmed and don't escalate the situation that can lead to police action.

It's simply not the case with third-party filming, which tends to get there late, and a lot of times missing the context that leads to police escalation of force.

"There are plentiful ways to educate youth other than expect them to come to church and be bored to death with a lecture."

Perhaps you need to go to another church.

​It has nothing to do with quality of the church.   Most church experience tends to be geared for adults over 40 and won't likely get through to youth.   When you breakdown the actual attending membership of the church, the age disparity is staggering. 

 

[Naomi]

I seriously dislike weighing in on this topic, however in the interest of offering  personal observation and experience.  I was associated with a police department for a number of years.  Our department used cameras (they are not a new thing) we had them mounted on our vehicles and our officers wore tie-tack cameras.  There is a vast difference in what you see if you watch the video from the moment the call comes in until the conclusion then what you perceive when  you  come in during contact/arrest/foot or car chase. 

This is not in defense of all officers, however if your child gets in your face and wont stop think how difficult it is to keep your cool and be the adult.  Now think about the adrenalin flowing during a chase, or a potential gun or knife incident.  The thing that I have noticed is that respect for authority appears to have gone by the wayside.  Sometimes we just have to not push the envelop, take care of our families and homes and not put ourselves in a position to be in a situation which can bring us possible conflict.  Just sayin'

[lazarus]

My objection is not about what you can do.   There are a lot of things you can do, but it doesn't mean that these things will make the world a better place.

​There are jurisdictions that believe putting cameras on police will make their communities better by improving behavior. The evidence seems to support that idea. My contention is that filming the police will do the same.

The question is about consistency, and why would cops be any different in such case?  Saying that they are "public servants" doesn't negate the fact that they are doing a job in a commercial scope of the public work. 

Simply because the impact of a bad encounter with a police officer has grave consequences for individual and the community. The Police are public servants whose role is to preserve law and order. The impact of their misconduct is considerable.

but cops do form stereotypes based on their experience in dealing with various groups of people.   It's not necessarily a negative or wrong thing to do.

You make my point. A black person may typically have a different perspective. People who have been consistently stereotyped know the impact of stereotyping. It is a wrong and negative thing to do.

Most of such "police brutality" and "police abuse" cases can be prevented with simple compliance.  When you comply and are polite, it doesn't matter what your race is or what your socio-economic status is...  there's a very slim chance that police will "abuse you".

Essentially you are saying that the people who have been brutalized were somehow culpable. It is also true that many victims of crime would have remained uninjured or alive if they had complied with their attackers wishes. The fact is that there are police who lie, who are malicious, aggressive, and violent. The fact is that socio-economc status, and race are all factors in how police treat people. To suggest otherwise is naive.

 

Sure, in case of police wearing cameras... that can be the case, because people aware of being filmed and don't escalate the situation that can lead to police action.

It's simply not the case with third-party filming, which tends to get there late, and a lot of times missing the context that leads to police escalation of force.

You are missing the fact that police also do not escalate. They are more careful too. There was a recent case of a New York cop abusing an Uber driver. Do you really think he would have been so abusive if he knew he was being filmed? There is a growing awareness by officers that more adn more people will film them. This will change their behavior for the better unless lawmakers begin to ban filming police.

Edited May 5, 2015 by lazarus

[fccool]

 

​There are jurisdictions that believe putting cameras on police will make their communities better by improving behavior. The evidence seems to support that idea. My contention is that filming the police will do the same.

I thought I've already explained the difference between out of context, and in context filming.  Again,  I'm not against it.  I don't think it will result in the impact that police-worn recording would do.

Simply because the impact of a bad encounter with a police officer has grave consequences for individual and the community. The Police are public servants whose role is to preserve law and order. The impact of their misconduct is considerable.

You realize that it goes both ways, right?   Continual encounters with criminals will likewise have consequences on how police deals with escalated situations.   They are public servants, but they are operating in a different scope of public service than a social service worker would, for example.   They are required to maintain and enforce law, which constitutes using force if necessary. 

Impact of their misconduct is no more considerable than an impact of misconduct in general population, be it sexual harassment, embezzlement,  bullying, or straight up crime... which is a million times more frequent than police misconduct.  

 

You make my point. A black person may typically have a different perspective. People who have been consistently stereotyped know the impact of stereotyping. It is a wrong and negative thing to do.

No, it's not.   Stereotypes are wrong when these are falsely used and misapplied.

When you see a person on a street sitting in a corner in a shanty clothes, it's safe to assume that such person is most likely homeless.  That's a stereotype.   When you see someone who can't walk in a straight line, and puking on a street and slurring their words... you don't generally assume that they have some sort of detrimental illness.   They are most likely drunk.   That's a stereotype.

Stereotypes are judgement shortcuts that help us adequately evaluate any given situations.   Yes, we can be wrong, and these can be misapplied, but saying that these are negative is a bit of a stretch.

When you talk about history of racism, we are talking about false stereotypes.  There are true stereotypes that help people make everyday decisions faster.  When a lander asks for information about your financial history based on your credit score .... they are relying on a stereotype that people with poor credit score are less reliable when paying back a loan.

When you walk in a dark alley, and scantly dressed guy picks up his pace and follows you... you are not going to say that it's wrong to assume that he is going to rob or rape.   That's a stereotype.  

In police work, they are dealing with consistent types of criminal behavior, and they form their own sets of stereotypes.  
 

Essentially you are saying that the people who have been brutalized were somehow culpable. It is also true that many victims of crime would have remained uninjured or alive if they had complied with their attackers wishes. The fact is that there are police who lie, who are malicious, aggressive, and violent. The fact is that socio-economc status, and race are all factors in how police treat people. To suggest otherwise is naive.

I think it would be even more naive to suggest that such treatment is solely based on false stereotypes and misuse of police power, and has nothing to do with the fact that disproportionate amount of crime is committed by that particular segment of the population. 
 

You are missing the fact that police also do not escalate. They are more careful too. There was a recent case of a New York cop abusing an Uber driver. Do you really think he would have been so abusive if he knew he was being filmed? There is a growing awareness by officers that more adn more people will film them. This will change their behavior for the better unless lawmakers begin to ban filming police.

​People film police confrontations all the time simply because it's an "exciting event".   It's nothing new give technology affordability.  Almost everyone has a camera in their pocket.

I keep emphasizing the fact that police issues is a direct result in the environment they operate, which is a direct result of higher level of violence and crime in poor neighborhoods, disproportionate percentage of which happens to be black, and which tends to cycle violence in some cultural contexts.   I think it's naive to assume that certain culturally cycled "ideals" have zero impact on this issue.

As I've mentioned, I grew up in Northwest Miami.   It's a different environment than rural Ohio where I went to college and where people don't lock their cars and doors.   And yes, it has nothing to do with race... ideally.   But again, given the history of US racism such is the reality.   We can either deal with it by educating people.   Or we can bark up the wrong tree, blaming cops and inciting riots.

[Anthony!]

Witness Accounts in Midtown Hammer Attack Show the Power of False Memory

"A police officer shot David Baril on Wednesday at Eighth Avenue and 37th Street as Mr. Baril began swinging a hammer at another officer. Witnesses recalled seeing things that did not happen."

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/05/15/nyregion/witness-accounts-in-midtown-hammer-attack-show-the-power-of-false-memory.html?_r=2