Marriage in Heaven?

[emy_nottheaward]

I was having a discussion with my mother this weekend, and she became very curious if there would be marriage/babies/etc. in heaven. She spoke with a man in our church who apparently "knows his Bible" and claims that a) there will be no marriage in heaven b] there will be no babies in heave and c) (this one I think is borderline heresy) our purpose is to essentially take the place of the fallen angels.

 

He especially used the Matthew 22:30  For in the resurrection they neither marry nor are given in marriage, but are like angels in heaven. 

 

But, I have a friend who claims that because God instituted marriage and the Sabbath before the fall, they shall exist in the new earth. 

 

Also, I could not seem to answer her question about the mutliple wives debate.

 

Thank you so much for your help.

[LifeHiscost]

Not giving this as the last Word but it does come from the Bible.

 

…19"I will also rejoice in Jerusalem and be glad in My people; And there will no longer be heard in her The voice of weeping and the sound of crying. 20"No longer will there be in it an infant who lives but a few days, Or an old man who does not live out his days; For the youth will die at the age of one hundred And the one who does not reach the age of one hundred Will be thought accursed. 21"They will build houses and inhabit them; They will also plant vineyards and eat their fruit.…Isaiah 65

 

Even reading that in context would seem to need further explaining, especially when taking these scriptures into consideration.

 

…3And I heard a loud voice from the throne, saying, "Behold, the tabernacle of God is among men, and He will dwell among them, and they shall be His people, and God Himself will be among them, 4and He will wipe away every tear from their eyes; and there will no longer be any death; there will no longer be any mourning, or crying, or pain; the first things have passed away." 5And He who sits on the throne said, "Behold, I am making all things new." And He said, "Write, for these words are faithful and true."…Revelation 21

 

…13And the sea gave up the dead which were in it, and death and Hades gave up the dead which were in them; and they were judged, every one of them according to their deeds. 14Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death, the lake of fire. 15And if anyone's name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire.....Revelation 20

 

…25For He must reign until He has put all His enemies under His feet. 26The last enemy that will be abolished is death. ...1 Corinthians 15

 

Gode is Love!  Jesus saves! 

[GayatfootofCross]

Amen, LifeHisCost

 

It is my understanding that there will be no homosexuals in Heaven

as well as Heterosexuals neither.

[you all can breath now] 

All sexuality will be gone!

No reason to repopulate!

nice G.I. Joe's action figure (doll)bodys for the men!

I wont describe the Ladies here!

 

I do believe we'll have umpteen millions of babies to raise.

With Jesus in the Family- happy happy home

 

P.S. The thought of the New Earth being a different thing sounds glorious how ever it plays out!

 

 

 

…3And I heard a loud voice from the throne, saying, "Behold, the tabernacle of God is among men, and He will dwell among them, and they shall be His people, and God Himself will be among them, 4and He will wipe away every tear from their eyes; and there will no longer be any death; there will no longer be any mourning, or crying, or pain; the first things have passed away." 5And He who sits on the throne said, "Behold, I am making all things new." And He said, "Write, for these words are faithful and true."…Revelation 21

 

Gode is Love!  Jesus saves! 

[Gregory Matthews]

SDAs differ on this question. 

 

I cannot say what position is correct.

 

I am willing to leave it to the Lord. God has our happiness planned. 

[8thdaypriest]

If you search it through the Torah, you will find that everything associated with sex rendered the persons "unclean" for a period of time.  Sexual intercourse, night emissions for men or menstrual periods for women.  Nothing "unclean" could enter the Tabernacle court.  If heaven is the "true tabernacle" then nothing "unclean" can enter heaven.  

 

I believe those resurrected at the return of Christ, will ascend with Him to "the Father's House" - that is - Heaven.  If Heaven IS "the true tabernacle", then these people must be priests.  Only priests could enter the Tabernacle proper.  They are dressed in "white linen" which was priestly garb.  They eat of the "hidden manna", which was the shewbread.  They will become "priests of God and of Christ" (Rev. 20:5-6).  At the end of 1000 years, they will be prepared to "reign on the earth". 

 

I DO NOT BELIEVE that any child can enter upon the priesthood.  They cannot believe.  They have not chosen to serve HIM.  They have not been "born again".

That is why I believe that all infants and children will be resurrected AFTER the 1000 years, to grow up in the earth made new.

 

Jeremiah saw "pregnant women and women in labor" among those returned to the land at the "greater exodus" (Jer. 31:8).

 

Isaiah 11 describes children in the earth made new.  So we KNOW there WILL be children there. But that does NOT mean these children have been given eternal life - not yet.

These children must learn the ways of God, and then choose to serve HIM. 

OR - They will rebel against him, and become part of the Gog/Magog army of rebellion.

 

Satan has demanded the right to TEST every human being.  God has given him that access.  THAT is WHY he is "loosed" from his prison after the 1000 years of the 7th millennium.

The contest for souls will continue.  If the contest was OVER, then there is no reason to turn him loose to deceive again.

 

If conception and thus new human lives, were to continue - on and on forever - in the earth made new, then Satan's existence must be continued also. 

There would be no END to the contest. 

 

It is my belief - that "the rest of the dead" will be those people who lived and died in ignorance of God and His Law.  This includes all children and infants.

They will be raised to continue their physical lives, to learn the ways of God, and then to choose whom they will serve. 

Many will choose Christ.  Most will rebel- and that will be Gog/Magog. 

 

Those from this age who are judged "wicked", will be resurrected at the Second Coming.  They will be "raised to shame and everlasting condemnation" (Daniel 12:2-3), and will be left to die in the plagues.  They will NOT be raised AGAIN, 1000 years later, to face judgment and execution AGAIN.  

 

A person who is ignorant of God and His Law, is NOT judged "wicked" in the eyes of God.   He/she will NOT face judgment at the Second Coming, and execution. 

But God cannot take such a person into His eternal Kingdom - not without their choice.  (Children fall into this category.) 

Some say that God will simply leave such people - as if they had never been.  I do NOT BELIEVE that. 

Christ died for those people.  He LOVES them. 

To leave these people - without giving them a chance to know Him, would be like a woman who willfully aborts her unborn child. 

 

So - YES - there will be children in the Kingdom on earth, after the "rest of the dead" are resurrected.

And NO - there will be no further conception. 

 

Blessings,

Rachel Cory

Prophecy Viewpoint

[CoAspen]

Rather adament!!! Wish I had a CRYSTAL BALL like that!

 

Emy....

What we have posted so far are personal opinions. A few texts thrown in here and there do not prove a point. Context is always needed. I have heard good sermons on both sides of the issue. As Greg posted, what is the correct position, unknown in my mind. Persons use the same texts, languages, word definitions, ancient manuscripts, etc, still comming up with different opinions. Maybe it was never meant to be an important issue, from Gods point of view, just human speculation.

 

From my point of view, as I have stated before, why would God create a species of people and then change everything later? Male and female were created before sin entered the scene.....by God!! Sounds to much like Greek mythology to me when people speculate about this God changing everything for the future. Can God be trusted?

[JoeMo]

I'm hanging with Gregory and CoAspen in this.  I don't know the answer.  While I agree with Rachel that there will probably be children in the Kingdom right after the second coming and again after the second resurrection, I don't know whether or not there will be babies forever in heaven because people are still having sex. I do know that heaven will be a place of perfect peace and happiness - perpertual sex and babies or not.

 

I have seen other serious discussions on whether or not we will be able to have our favorite pets in heaven.  Again, I don't know; but it's not that important to me.

[LifeHiscost]

 

So - YES - there will be children in the Kingdom on earth, after the "rest of the dead" are resurrected.

And NO - there will be no further conception. 

 

Blessings,

Rachel Cory

Prophecy Viewpoint

There is a shift of time alluded to, between when "the rest of the dead" is spoken about which refers to those who were not ready to meet Jesus when He comes back the second time for His children to take them back to the Kingdom with Himself. Those not ready to meet with Jesus on His second return will not have further time to change their mind later.

 

 

…4Then I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was given to them. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony of Jesus and because of the word of God, and those who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received the mark on their forehead and on their hand; and they came to life and reigned with Christ for a thousand years. 5 The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were completed. This is the first resurrection. 6Blessed and holy is the one who has a part in the first resurrection; over these the second death has no power, but they will be priests of God and of Christ and will reign with Him for a thousand years....Revelation 20 underlined mine  LHC

 

God is Love!  Jesus! saves! 

[JoeMo]

LHC,

Go read Rachel's studies on the "Eighth Day" at www.prophecyviewpoint.com before you close your mind to what 8thdaypriest is saying.  Nothing in your quote indicates that all of the "rest of the dead" are condemned.  IMHO, there is nothing in scripture that explicitly says that all of the "rest of the dead" are condemned.

[whbae]

Do I understand correctly that God wants to restore this sinful earth to the ORIGINAL before the fall.  If so, God created  male and female and sanctioned the marriage and demanded them to multiply and prosper.  Has God changed His mind. 

[rudywoofs (Pam)]

Perhaps it's not the sexual genders that are being referred to in the Galatians 3:28 text of "There is neither Jew nor Gentile, neither slave nor free, nor is there male and female, for you are all one."

 

Perhaps the reference was to the societal roles of each group mentioned.  I rather think it was to say there would be no distinctions in what each of us could or would do in the New Earth...

[LifeHiscost]

LHC,

Go read Rachel's studies on the "Eighth Day" at www.prophecyviewpoint.com before you close your mind to what 8thdaypriest is saying.  Nothing in your quote indicates that all of the "rest of the dead" are condemned.  IMHO, there is nothing in scripture that explicitly says that all of the "rest of the dead" are condemned.

Be that as it may, when Jesus returns the second time, the time that most of the Christian church is now anticipating as right on the verge of happening, there are only two camps of loyalty at that time. Those who have accepted the seal of God and those who have accepted the mark of the beast, whether we're married in heaven notwithstanding.

 

…29Let no unwholesome word proceed from your mouth, but only such a word as is good for edification according to the need of the moment, so that it will give grace to those who hear. 30Do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, by whom you were sealed for the day of redemption. 31Let all bitterness and wrath and anger and clamor and slander be put away from you, along with all malice.…Ephesian 4

...saying, “Do not harm the earth or the sea or the trees, until we have sealed the servants of our God on their foreheads.”....Revelation 7

 

t

16And he causes all, the small and the great, and the rich and the poor, and the free men and the slaves, to be given a mark on their right hand or on their forehead, 17and he provides that no one will be able to buy or to sell, except the one who has the mark, either the name of the beast or the number of his name. 18Here is wisdom. Let him who has understanding calculate the number of the beast, for the number is that of a man; and his number is six hundred and sixty-six....Revelation 13

 

God is Love!  Jesus saves! 

[8thdaypriest]

I realize the idea that "the rest of the dead" are neither condemned nor given eternal life - at the second coming, is strange and "new" to SDAs. 

 

The idea that our LORD would continue probation for those who could NOT HAVE CHOSEN HIM during their life in this age - is new.

These people never REJECTED the LORD.  They were not old enough to know who HE is, or lived in a pagan culture before the missionaries could reach them.

Most of the folks I've explained this to, have NOT accept it right away. 

A few have thought about it - and then thought about it again, and then have gone to the Scriptures.

They come back saying, "You may be right."

 

I assumed for 40 years, that "the rest of the dead" were the wicked - who were being resurrected only to hear judgment pronounced against them, and then to be executed.

I assumed this because that is what EGW and early SDA pioneers taught.  That is what is presented in Great Controversy. 

 

But then I began to really LOOK at the prophecies. 

There are many prophecies which describe people from the nations coming up to Jerusalem, where Messiah is reigning - to learn the ways of the LORD. 

Israel is serving as "the priests of the LORD". 

This HAS to be after the redeemed (Israel) are "returned to the land" - which doesn't take place until after the 1000 years of the 7th millennium.  

 

All I ask is that folks think about it, and pray about it, and search the Scriptures.

 

Rachel Cory

Prophecy Viewpoint 

[Stewart (SDA)]

Emy,

 

I hope that we've been able to offer something that's helpful/ useful to you... I would really like to know, either way.

 

And I have a couple of thoughts to share here as well.

 

I suggest that the question presented to Jesus by the Saduccees, is worth some consideration, because part of their question is still relevant for us today. If a man were to marry a woman in our day, and the man dies before his wife, then of course he leaves the woman free to re-marry. If she does in fact re-marry, and the three individuals are later re-united in the "resurrection of the just", then "whose wife shall she be"? (From what I've read, the old Jewish teachers taught that the "first" union was the eternal one.)

 

The potential "problem" is quite current, but the whole issue disappears if the 'institution of marriage' is not continued in heaven. (I do think that some people would find it difficult to imagine anything better than marriage, but we can be sure that “marriage” will be superceded by something far better, once mortality has put on immortality.)

 

Luke 20:34-35

"The children of this world marry, and are given in marriage:

But they which shall be accounted worthy to obtain that [eternal] world, and the resurrection from the dead, neither marry, nor are given in marriage".

 

Thought #2.

 

Replacing The Fallen Angels.

I suggest that this idea comes from two main sources :

 

1. John 14:2.

   “In My Father's house are many mansions...”, and

2. Ellen White's writings.

 

1. When Jesus tried to reassure His disciples, He spoke about the “mansions” in the present tense. There were then many existing “mansions”, “habitations”, or “abodes”, in His Father's house. It is interesting to me that Jude 6 speaks also about the angels that fell away and “left their own habitation”. It seems clear that this abandonment rendered their former habitations [together with the positions (or roles) that they had in heaven,] “vacant”.

 

Ellen White writes that “the vacancies made in heaven by the fall of Satan and his angels will be filled by the redeemed of the Lord.” (7Bible Comments p.949)

 

In another place she comments about Satan's attitude toward the Redeemed.

“Are these,” he says, “the people who are to take my place in heaven, and the place of the angels who united with me?” (Prophets and Kings p.588-589.)

 

Emy, I suggest too, that there is much truth [real spiritual truth] that “borders on heresy”. Many truths are, in themselves, fine lines, and maintaining a proper balance (while we attempt to apply them) is impossible without the presence of the Holy Spirit.

[Stewart (SDA)]

Emy, another little thought... this time on the "multiple wives debate".

 

If a married man were to consider taking a second wife, it seems to me that he would [at some point] be looking upon another prospective mate with "desire".

 

But Jesus gives a warning. "... I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart." (Matthew 5:28 KJV) This warning seems to be applicable to those that look for loop-holes to justify a polygamous relationship. (And there are quite a few of those apparent loop-holes used to justify one man -- multiple women marriages.) But Jesus effectively closes up the loop-holes that existed before His day.

 

Young's Literal Translation puts the verse this way,

 

"...I say to you, that every one who is looking on a woman to desire her, did already commit adultery with her in his heart."

 

So, if a married man were to consider having multiple wives, he would, I believe, be considering an adulterous relationship. Danger, danger, danger.

[8thdaypriest]

Adam was created from "dust" and Eve was a clone of Adam with one genetic modification XY to XX.

 

They were physical beings.  They were NOT immortal beings with the "spiritual body". 

 

Jesus said, "Flesh and blood cannot inherit the Kingdom of God". 

But Adam and Eve were flesh and blood. 

 

Which, to me, says they were created - on probation. 

 

The redeemed will receive the "spiritual body" at the Second Coming.

We really cannot know exactly WHAT the "spiritual body" will be capable of. 

[Robert]

Marriage at the Resurrection (NIV) 

Matt 22:23-30

23That same day the Sadducees, who say there is no resurrection, came to him with a question. 24“Teacher,” they said, “Moses told us that if a man dies without having children, his brother must marry the widow and raise up offspring for him. 25Now there were seven brothers among us. The first one married and died, and since he had no children, he left his wife to his brother. 26The same thing happened to the second and third brother, right on down to the seventh.27Finally, the woman died. 28Now then, at the resurrection, whose wife will she be of the seven, since all of them were married to her?”

29Jesus replied, “You are in error because you do not know the Scriptures or the power of God. 30At the resurrection people will neither marry nor be given in marriage; they will be like the angels in heaven.

1] No marriage in heaven!

2] The resurrected will be as the angels.

3] Angels are neither male nor female.  They do no procreate.

Now, Ellen White:

"As the little infants come forth immortal from their dusty beds, they immediately wing their way to their mothers’ arms. They meet again nevermore to part. But many of the little ones have no mother there. We listen in vain for the rapturous song of triumph from the mother. The angels receive the motherless infants and conduct them to the tree of life." *

Notice this infant is resurrected not in human form (male & female), but as the angels. So yes there will be infants in heaven, but they grow up to adults.  However, there are other planets (according to EGW) where procreation does take place.  These humans are like Adam & Eve before the fall.

* http://text.egwwritings.org/publication.php?pubtype=Book&bookCode=2SM&pagenumber=260

 

 

 

Edited May 3, 2015 by Tom Wetmore

[Robert]

 

"Flesh and blood cannot inherit the Kingdom of God". 

​"Flesh" in the Greek is Sarx:  the flesh, denotes mere human nature, the earthly nature of man apart from divine influence, and therefore prone to sin and opposed to God

[CoAspen]

So God conducted this experiment on earth, went horribly wrong, wipe out all their memories, change the left overs into something else!

 

Think I have seen this movie before!!

[CoAspen]

>At the resurrection ........<

Hmmmm...why do people always interpret this word 'at' as meaning 'after'??

[8thdaypriest]

Marriage at the Resurrection (NIV) 

Matt 22:23-30

23That same day the Sadducees, who say there is no resurrection, came to him with a question. 24“Teacher,” they said, “Moses told us that if a man dies without having children, his brother must marry the widow and raise up offspring for him. 25Now there were seven brothers among us. The first one married and died, and since he had no children, he left his wife to his brother. 26The same thing happened to the second and third brother, right on down to the seventh.27Finally, the woman died. 28Now then, at the resurrection, whose wife will she be of the seven, since all of them were married to her?”

29Jesus replied, “You are in error because you do not know the Scriptures or the power of God. 30At the resurrection people will neither marry nor be given in marriage; they will be like the angels in heaven.

1] No marriage in heaven!

2] The resurrected will be as the angels.

3] Angels are neither male nor female.  They do no procreate.

Now, Ellen White:

"As the little infants come forth immortal from their dusty beds, they immediately wing their way to their mothers’ arms. They meet again nevermore to part. But many of the little ones have no mother there. We listen in vain for the rapturous song of triumph from the mother. The angels receive the motherless infants and conduct them to the tree of life." *

Notice this infant is resurrected not in human form (male & female), but as the angels. So yes there will be infants in heaven, but they grow up to adults.  However, there are other planets (according to EGW) where procreation does take place.  These humans are like Adam & Eve before the fall.

* http://text.egwwritings.org/publication.php?pubtype=Book&bookCode=2SM&pagenumber=260

 

 

 

​So - little children are changed into another species???  With "wings" ??? 

Isaiah describes little children in the "new earth" - NOT "in Heaven".   

Heaven is the "true Tabernacle".  Only priests could ENTER the Tabernacle.  I don't believe children will enter Heaven itself. 

They will be resurrected AFTER the 1000 years of the 7th millennium, with "the rest of the dead" to "grow up" in the Kingdom of Messiah who will rule with his priests for 1000 years, during the 8th Day (8th millennium).  Those who rebel will come up with the army of Gog/Magog, and they will be destroyed.

 

[CoAspen]

at
preposition
expressing location or arrival in a particular place or position:

expressing the time when an event takes place:

 expressing a particular state or condition:

At the resurrection, point in time!

'After' would leave no question as to the meaning of the sentence, but it is not used. During this 'point in time' such things are not happening, but to use the same sentence to mean 'never', does not follow.

 

[Robert]

​So - little children are changed into another species???  With "wings" ??? 

​When a person dies he/she ceases to exist.  He/she returns to dust.  That person, from Adam, is gone forever.  In the resurrection they are re-created, not like Adam before the fall, but as the angels.  Your argument is with the Bible, not me.

[Robert]

So God conducted this experiment on earth, went horribly wrong, wipe out all their memories, change the left overs into something else!

 

Think I have seen this movie before!!

​God allowed our original parents, Adam & Eve, who were created with free wills access to "the tree of the knowledge of good and evil".  Why?  Because in heaven Lucifer claimed that his love of self was better than God's agape love. That's what the great controversy is about - agape love vs self-love.  Which is better system? They chose self-love and hence we are born loving self.  Has our world improved or not?  It has not.....We are living on a grave yard going around the sun.  

Edited May 3, 2015 by Robert

[Robert]

​When a person dies he/she ceases to exist.  He/she returns to dust.  That person, from Adam, is gone forever.  In the resurrection they are re-created, not like Adam before the fall, but as the angels.  Your argument is with the Bible, not me.

​2 Cor 5:14,16,17

14 For the love of Christ compels us, because we judge thus: that if One died for all, then all died; 

 

(Christ's death was a corporate death.  All mankind share Adam's life and this life died on the cross.  Hence "all died" and the justice of the law has been satisfied.)

 

16 Therefore, from now on, we regard no one according to the flesh (Greek: Sarx). Even though we have known Christ according to the flesh, yet now we know Him thus no longer.

 

(Before the resurrection Christ was according to the flesh, but after no longer. According to the flesh means Christ assumed our humanity, indwelt with its "bent".  He assumed our fallen humanity, but after the resurrection He was different.  He no longer was according to the flesh.  That life was left in the grave.)

 

 17 Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; old things have passed away; behold, all things have become new.

 

(All men are "in Christ" because "all died" and "all were resurrected "in Christ".  What does "If" mean?  It means if you realize that truth.  If you realize it through the gospel then you must realize that "in Him" you are no longer according to the flesh.  All things have become new.  In Christ you are as the angels.  You are immortal and you no longer have that "bent-to-self".)

Edited May 3, 2015 by Robert